Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

(Locked)

I am personally gratefull for the blue post regarding monks. Updating LoL for the first time since May 15th.
Dodge being so much worse than Armor or All resist makes the Primary stat of DH and Monks soooo much worse than other classes. The +300 from paragon for primary stat just makes the difference compared to other classes that much worse.
humm for me monk are...

good, but on the bottom of good.

i have a blast playing mine. if im pair whit a Bard im full happy and make killing..... some elite are a pain and took soo many long that even the fight seem pointless.

IMO we lack the OMGWTF skill. don't talk about the 7 strike. whit such a reuse it not wort it. presently i play a build where i only bring all mob to me and keep them there, while wating on OTHER to kill them...

if i wanna have fun whit my monk i absolutly need a bard for his shout and a DPS class whit a bit over 100K dps. and it ok

reste of the time. if i join game and no bard... i plainly suck and can't do much that keep dieing every moth** time...

other time we have soo much resist that we could sit and have a tea party while mob hit us.... but killing them was soo long it was more of a challenge to stay awake.

monk need something to bring a BANG moment. something that when im fighting like countless enemy whit elite. and that spirit is flowing i just can SPAM one attack and it would do good DMG

that my opinion
10/04/2012 04:19 PMPosted by OneCrazySin
I also agree with everyone posting here, my first character made was a monk and i have just started playing DH because the fact of the matter is, the monk class is garbage amongst every other class at this time and is continuing to get nerfed. May i also add Ive pumped millions into my monk's gear and have tried numerous builds close to 700 resist all, 30k+ health and over 40k damage at 1.8 a sec with buffs pumping out almost 70k for 5 seconds-ish, still getting one hit, never mind elites its almost ridiculous trying to take any elites past act 1.


And I hope by 30k+ you mean at least 50k........
It doesn't matter what class you are playing in any game if it's core combat skills and abilities revolve around melee combat then you should have high HP....
does Jay Wilson have naked pics of barbs in his room?
Edited by Aplaudible#1923 on 10/4/2012 4:33 PM PDT
Think i'm done with Diablo after this news.

Now that I KNOW blizzard thinks Monks are OK - well, that just ripped all hope out of me.

GG everyone.
Edited by Ucross#1702 on 10/4/2012 4:34 PM PDT
10/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


Also, seriously?! "Take some time?". Monks have been in terrible shape since the game launched, and pretty much every other class has gone through meaningful diagnosis. And the changes you speak of (which as you'll read through this entire thread, are clearly NOT the problems) aren't even a decimal compared to the changes the other classes are going through this patch...And you're saying you need MORE time then you've already spent reworking the other classes? Blizzard...Come on...Wake up and face the damn music already.

NO ONE. LIKES. MONKS.

THEY NEED. MAJOR. REWORKING.

Why are your priorities so jacked up? The games been out for what, almost 6 months now? You've had your players begrudgingly playing a class they dislike for SIX MONTHS. I mean, I don't know what else you need to be told by your playerbase. If you really want people to keep playing, this is a crummy way of showing it.

And if you just have no interest in listening to the overwhelming amounts of feedback on the matter, just say so. "We need more time" is just embarrassing.
10/04/2012 04:32 PMPosted by Aplaudible
does Jay Wilson have naked pics of barbs in his room?
Well, I'm officially done.

Maybe I'll see you all around when PvP comes out.

Probably not.
Hey Bliz why u hate monks so much? I bet you guys must be giving each other high fives, celebertating how much you have !@#$ed up monks.

congras Bliz. You have done it!
I think alot of monks would appreciate a simple change like Monks finally getting some Innate Spirit regen.

But what would I know, something so simple couldn't possibly be helpful.
10/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power,


100% wrong. They have the lowest power and the main stat that provides the lowest survivability. They have 2 sources of damage. 1 is just a primary skill and the other has a huge cooldown (Fulminating Onslaught).

But most of all, monks have the worst passives of all the classes. There are just TWO offensive passives that monks can use.
One of them requires co-op play.
The other just decreases the cooldown on Fulminating Onslaught

Meanwhile, Barbarians have ended up being one of the highest power classes with a main stat that provides the most survivability. They have a multitude of builds for damage output. They have hybrid offense-defense build options that trump the pure defense skills of monks. (Revenge anyone? Spammable %-based heal that does damage vs. a flat heal that barely does anything and whose real purpose is a measly 15% damage buff...)

And they have some of the best passives of all the classes for both offense AND defense. ONE skill that buffs critical hit chance AND critical damage? That's amazing.

Monks and Barbarians as of now are polar opposites in terms of their capabilities.

Monks
Lowest Damage of the melee classes
Lowest Durability of the melee classes
Lowest Build Diversity of the melee classes
Flat Heals (lowest heals) of the melee classes
Highest Gear Cost of the melee classes
Shares primary stat with the highest damage overall class

Barbarians
Highest Damage of the melee classes
Highest Durability of the melee classes
Highest Build Diversity of the melee classes
%-age based heals (highest heals) of the melee classes, all of which serve as major damage sources
Lowest Gear Cost of the melee classes
Does not share primary stat with the highest damage overall class, let alone any class

Monks are fine? You feel monks are fine? Especially in terms of power? Wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. More wrong than anything that has been said or any patch changes that have gone through to date. Ridiculously backwards and out-of-line of the reality of the game. Out-of-touch with community feedback by epic proportions.

If a non-blue poster said this on the forums, they'd be labelled a troll. And here we have a Blizzard spokesperson saying the very same things...
Decent? Really?

1. We are a melee class. In order to deal damage, we have to be able to take damage. It's as simple as that. We don't have truly ranged skills, and can't completely avoid getting hit.
2. In that case one would assume that Monk should be great at healing, which would allow it to take more damage. In reality it's worse at healing than a Barbarian.
3. So perhaps it should have a lot of armor? It seems that that Blizzard disagrees with STI nerf.
4. Resistances then? Right now we have OWE, but if 1.0.5 is going live as it is right now, OWE will need a buff, not a nerf. And by the way, our set items do not have any resistance by default, they have to roll it as random property ...
4. How about dodge? No, it doesn't work on most of damage at all, and in case when it works it's RNG between two extremes - not taking damage at all, and being almost instantly dead.
5. So maybe it should be moving around quickly? No, that's for Barbarians. Of course, like every other class we are bound by ridiculous 25% movement speed cap.
6. Ok, so maybe we should be able to do a lot of damage? Not really, there are no DPS passives. Also, glass cannon "kill them before serenity wears off" playstyle is not viable in MP5+
7. Our set bonuses are simply bad.
8. Mantras need complete overhaul. Right now the choice is only between MoE:Hard Target (undergeared) of MoC:Overawe (overgeared). Mantra of Healing is a joke, if anyone uses it it's only for Time of Need rune. Mantra of Retribution is sometimes used with Transgression rune (I guess that with insane gear when DPS makes no difference any more it can indeed be a good choice).
9. Why none of the monks are using our signature weapon, daibo? Seems Blizzard is not worried about this at all ...
10. Our spirit spenders still are very bad, with the exception of SSS, which is only good because in addition to damage it offers temporary invulnerability.

Obviously 1.0.5 will not kill the Monk as a class, and with good enough gear we will be able to do MP10 - but the "good enough" bar for us will be a lot higher than for other classes.

Oh look, yet another well-constructed, logical breakdown of how badly broken the monk class is. I would KILL for a blue to drop by and address the above quote point-by-point in a rational fashion. Every other class has some sort of focus, some particular area it excels at that makes it stand out from the crowd. Monks as they currently stand have nothing special to recommend them, outside of the cookie cutter build. Was there any coherent design philosophy behind the monk at all? It feels like Blizzard tossed together a bunch of random skills left over after the other four classes were completed and called it a fifth class. And instead of reasonable, articulate explanations for why the devs disagree with the deluge of complaints from the monk community, we receive the same old vague "We feel..." response with no substance behind it. Weak.
I am a monk from China and none of my monk friends believe that monk is decent.
The idea that monk is decent is totally wrong. More wrong anything that has been said.
Passives and spirit spenders are garbage.
Dodge does nothing.
Decent? Really?

1. We are a melee class. In order to deal damage, we have to be able to take damage. It's as simple as that. We don't have truly ranged skills, and can't completely avoid getting hit.
2. In that case one would assume that Monk should be great at healing, which would allow it to take more damage. In reality it's worse at healing than a Barbarian.
3. So perhaps it should have a lot of armor? It seems that that Blizzard disagrees with STI nerf.
4. Resistances then? Right now we have OWE, but if 1.0.5 is going live as it is right now, OWE will need a buff, not a nerf. And by the way, our set items do not have any resistance by default, they have to roll it as random property ...
4. How about dodge? No, it doesn't work on most of damage at all, and in case when it works it's RNG between two extremes - not taking damage at all, and being almost instantly dead.
5. So maybe it should be moving around quickly? No, that's for Barbarians. Of course, like every other class we are bound by ridiculous 25% movement speed cap.
6. Ok, so maybe we should be able to do a lot of damage? Not really, there are no DPS passives. Also, glass cannon "kill them before serenity wears off" playstyle is not viable in MP5+
7. Our set bonuses are simply bad.
8. Mantras need complete overhaul. Right now the choice is only between MoE:Hard Target (undergeared) of MoC:Overawe (overgeared). Mantra of Healing is a joke, if anyone uses it it's only for Time of Need rune. Mantra of Retribution is sometimes used with Transgression rune (I guess that with insane gear when DPS makes no difference any more it can indeed be a good choice).
9. Why none of the monks are using our signature weapon, daibo? Seems Blizzard is not worried about this at all ...
10. Our spirit spenders still are very bad, with the exception of SSS, which is only good because in addition to damage it offers temporary invulnerability.

Obviously 1.0.5 will not kill the Monk as a class, and with good enough gear we will be able to do MP10 - but the "good enough" bar for us will be a lot higher than for other classes.


I agree.
I wonder what HQ is thinking of the 30 pages of laughing in their face. Other then laughing that they laughed in ours first.
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


What a joke.
I'm outta here. The fact that they said that monks right now are ok is total crap.

Stripped my monk of every piece of equipment. Bye Diablo.
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


Thanks. Appreciate the update.

P.S. WTS MONK PST
I don't think Monks are totally broken and that in some ways they are powerful, but there are definitely a need for improvements to be made.

I have a regular group that I run with: 2 Barbs, my Monk and then a DH or a Wizard and we farm Act 3 Inferno regularly.

I know from my experience that I wouldn't run Act 3 Solo, without a Barb, ever, War Cry is too valuable. However, I know that in our group runs I actually tank better than the two barbs. This may be a combination of my skill and item build. However they both do more damage than I do and this is even without WotB.

I find that the Monk in it's current state, is 'unrefined', especially in solo gameplay but in co-operative mode my Barb friends have commented that they love my Monk being in the group, especially with MoC: Overawe and the Healing. When I have the Warcry buff, i find that my monk is where I want her to be.

They have also repeatedly commented that Monks need some sort of bonus dps skill, similar to that of WotB. I use SSS with the FO rune but the time in between cooldowns seems too long. I find myself repeatedly bashing away at mobs and packs for great lengths of time, bored to tears.

I currently have a 2+ spirit regen fist weapon that I keep in my bag for down times in the field that I switch to to regen spirit in between packs.

Some thoughts:
- A need for base spirit regeneration
- Although in 1.05 ware cry is being nerfed, so is STI which puts us on par with the Barb main stat. Not only that, vitality for a Barb goes to armour too...so monks only get +50%dex to armour where barbs get +Str +vit +warcry (wtf?)
- I do feel at times that spirit is lacking, especially casting MoC and having half of my spirit gone.
- A better balance on spirit generators and spenders in terms of spirit spent vs benefits.
- A scaled healing skill rather than a flat number

pretty much what everyone else has said already ^_^

having said that, I won't be shelving my monk and I will continue to play her. Whatever nerf's etc may come, I will still endeavour to make her viable and play around with her items/build as much as possible/required.
Edited by xdfubar#6498 on 10/4/2012 5:34 PM PDT
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