Diablo® III

Request for response on state of Monks..

(Locked)

While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


All I really understood from this is:

oops, I never read any of the PTR feedback on monks until now, but after the dev team's ignorance and lack of ever playing a monk was revealed by my message to the monk community earlier, it is now time to work on the monk.
Posts: 2,301
View profile
Cross bruce lee with ryu then make babies with avatar from the last air bender.

Monk fixed
maybe blz thinks that mage in WOW is way too powerful,so they nerf wizard in D3 as a result of balance
Does ANYONE who actually plays the game feel as though they could not do a better job than these "Devs"? forums are full of usefull and creative suggestions for how to fix the game. Maybe it's time for a "Dev" journal of just what it is they do all day? LOVE the complete 180 on this blues post though. lol, just lol. speaking of which, i think I'll go play a game where the developers have a clue as to what goes on in their game. Bli$$ard, so sad.


By addressing Wizards, you mean totally nerfed them to hell....with more changes planned in the future..

Seeing the "planned works" on the monks has been there since 1.01, I shudder to think when is Blizzard's planned change for wizards as well.



Exactly.

Why do people keep acting like Wizards are fine? Monks at least have decent survivability in Act 3 Inferno. As a Wizard with low level gear (worth about 10m gold - sorry guys I don't use RMAH) I would regularly get killed in two or three hits. Now they are nerfing our cc so we won't even be able to utilize CM effectively - which was a core skill in the Wizard's arsenal.

Yes we all know that they are reducing monster damage in 1.0.5 and so even though they are nerfing Energy Armor, we will still take less damage than previously. Nevertheless, my comments still stand, in that Wizards have little in the way of survivability compared to Monks. Other than kiting constantly (and does this even work, when you have elite mobs with vortex, freeze, etc. etc.) which doesn't work that great, we (those of us that didn't pay to win) have little survivability. 1.0.5 is going to make this even worse, and certainly does not allow many of us to utilize the gear that we've spent many hours (or much money) acquiring.

Although, the blues imply that they have many changes in store for the monk class in the future, so you guys may end up with the same problem soon enough... Then you'll realize what we in the Wizard class have been regularly experiencing.
While some are concerned bout diversity, the lower tiered monks are more concerned with surviving. What vae said is for the future past 1.05. But what of 1.05? a majority of us are concerned bout the extreme armor drop monk gets with no alternatives. Sure is all fine and dandy to promise bigger changes later on, but what do we do in the upcoming patch?

Is fine for those who plan to play on MP0. Is fine for those who already sit on 150k dps. But what of everyone struggling in the middle?
my god its clear blizzard doesnt play on the PTR or test internally 1.05 on high MP levels is not fine as a monk. i have no build choice its STI/OWE or bust which is worse than it is now.

but its nice to see barbs discovering their 100%crit chance on hammer of the ancients build. ./sigh


I doubt any class has more than just a few builds to choose from at high levels of MP


actually they do, most classes (see every other one) can survive with better play (avoiding damage as ranged) and through incremental defensive gains in their main stat.

Monks on the other hand do not gain any useful defense from their mainstat and are required to use a passive to gain any sort of measurable defensive gains.

the base problem is dodge, a monk with 3000dex and a monk with 1000dex in crap gear will get hit for the exact same amount with equal resist when they get hit which is inevitable. If monks have no way to increase their defenses except with mandatory passives or skills they are not very viable at high MP levels where you get hit for 3/4 of your life by each mob.

the only hope monks have for MP10 is to use the "mandatory" passives and hope to outleech the mobs and hope they dont get hit 3-4times in a row with a bad string of dodges. sounds like fun and compelling gameplay.
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


Care to list these "build options"? changing 2 buttons is not a new build (especially considering one of those buttons is either MoC or MoE)... how is it NO ONE at that company holds ANYONE accountable for ANYTHING? how out of touch can you be with your player base? oh ya, Just look at the two blue posts in this thread... that's how out of touch you can be. How can anyone there possibly justify Mantra of Retribution?!?!?!????
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


Hi, I'd like to know if all of these changes planned for monk and hopefully (fixing wiz procs) are slated for 1.05 or 1.05 is largely monster power and nerfs for everyone and these class balancing issues ( to put them on the same efficiency level as barbs) are scheduled for another patch
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in my previous post, but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


thank you the followup ! ... finally :)
from someone in the monk forums sorry didnt take down your name!

If Barbs were at monks level:

Tornado's LOH coefficient reduced to zero.
Battlerage: Into the fray now only effects crits occuring from rage generators
Armor now has no mitigation for environmental effects and boss effects
Strength also now suffers diminishing returns, offering half armor at 1000 strength
Bonus: One rune on each offensive skill now gives +20% armor for 3seconds
Hammer of the ancients now gains 20% more damage, but costs 250% more rage to use (half your rage)
Nerves of steel: Halved to 0.5armor
Animosity reduced to 1.3% rage per second
Bloodthirst reduced to 350 life on hit, procs off rage generators only
All lifesteal on armor is reduced to 180 life on hit, procs off rage generators only
Barb set 2 Handers no longer have double sustain (as with LPSS)
Sprint is now channelled rage cost, 8% per second, whipping out a 2h spear and spinning it
Leap no longer gives damage/targeting immunity, and cannot traverse obstacles
All skills that generate rage or have no rage cost, leap/ignore pain, now cost 10-15 rage
Taking damage no longer generates rage
Weapon master redesigned: Causes bash and cleave to add 1 stack to frenzy if you use multiple rage generators
Ruthless redesigned, now increases max rage by 75
Edited by stexx#1289 on 10/4/2012 8:33 PM PDT
The blue is obviously out of touch with the monk. Would like Wyatt Chang to come in here please and give us a proper idea of what is happening with the Monk.
10/04/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.


Hi V. Thank you for the update. I can't imagine how tough it must be to be caught in the middle. Addressing this comment, I think Monks understand that more work is needed and would welcome that, however, the defense reduction is currently being pitched without anything to balance that out as a positive. In other words, it has the feeling of kicking someone who's already down. Are these aforementioned changes planned for 1.0.5? If not, rather than hurting the overall playability of the class in 1.0.5 have the devs considered reducing the size of the nerf during the 1.0.5 release cycle in order to keep the class viable? It could potentially create a bubble period where Monks were seen to have a defensive advantage (this could be argued) but without PvP, would that be negative? Farming would be no more efficient since DPS is still not stellar-enough to 'faceroll.'

Alternately, are the planned One With Everything and playstyle changes significant enough to disrupt current monks? To be more straightforward (and this is a sincere question), are the defensive losses meant to be a signal to the player base to step away from the Monks, for the time being, while they are being reworked into a new-class with new gearing and a new playstyle (a sort of player reset)? I can understand why, from a community management perspective, this would be ideal and, if that is indeed the message (eg, "We know they need work, just don't use them right now"), then I think that would be a simpler message to digest than the negative perception achieved by reducing survivability.

10/04/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.


We agree with that too! As I've said in my other post, [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794830289"], this is all fantastic but the survivability options really do need to be addressed either through heal scaling + vitality (eg, taking 30k post-mitigated hits every other second but being able heal those sorts of hits with limited cooldown), or re-introducing armor or damage % reductions that can deal with the issues posted by AoE / reflect damage.

10/04/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


I think I speak for many when I say, 'Hurray! We can't wait! No really, I mean it, we cannot wait!' ;-)

More seriously, it's good to hear that more changes are planned and your second post is appreciated. If you can't share the 'what' can you share something else? The 'how' (eg, methodology) and the 'when' would both be great places to start. A few promises in either would go a long way with the playerbase.

If a 1.0.4 monk finds himself/herself non-viable in 1.0.5 it would be unwise to re-gear since looming changes to One with Everything (not to mentioned playstyle changes) put all significant monk investments at risk of being obsolete in a near-timeframe. At the very least, knowing when the class will be fixed might incentivise the player to return on that date when they might not otherwise do-so.

All in all, we're happy and hungry for change, but it feels a bit like we're just not important enough to keep viable during a production period or (at worst) being passively discouraged. Anything you can do address these concerns would be appreciated.
This

We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


followed by this

While there are currently solid build options for monks both in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, and while top-tiered monks using very specific builds can achieve respectable damage, the class isn’t yet where we want it to be. We’re definitely aware of your concerns, and we agree that additional improvements should be made, especially with regards to play style options, build diversity, and the performance and budget of monk resources. We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.

Ultimately, we want to make monks more engaging to play and really immerse players in what it would feel like to be a fast-punching martial arts master. We have a number of ideas on how to accomplish that for the future, and we want to provide improved passives, particularly passives that can be used for a more offensively-minded monk. I also mentioned two other possible changes we’re considering in[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883#7"] my previous post[/url], but those certainly aren’t the only changes we’re looking into. They address another area we feel could use improvement, and that’s giving players some additional, more active play style options.

We have more improvements planned and they’re still only in the discussion phase, so we’re not really in a place right now to talk about them in much detail, but we’re actively working towards solutions to address many key concerns.


means:

"I don't even know what I am saying, I just wanna comfort you some by saying we have great things in our mind so that you won't cry all day."
10/04/2012 08:14 PMPosted by BorrowedTime
We feel that the monk has the most potential for improvement, and we have plans to make more changes to the monk after 1.0.5. The sort of changes we’d like to make are not simple number tweaks, though.


Sounds more promising than yesterdays post,but... the "after 1.05" part is just more placebo for us,how long will it be before these issues are addressed now that you have "plans to make more changes"?

How about NOT nerfing STI in 1.05 for a start?? Maybe buffing a few of those skills and passives now,since 1.05 obviously isn't ready yet???

Check the "Class skills Section" in the sticky at the top of the Monk forum,under Passive skills..Most of those sound better than what we have,they must have been coded into the game at some point,how hard would it be to re-implement some of those????

It's nice to see a response anyway,even if it's not what we were hoping to hear,at least for 1.05..
Maybe I'll try monk again,when these changes are in effect,if ever..or maybe I'll just move on to another game where the devs actually play and understand their game,balance issues,loot systems and we don't have to use an auction house to upgrade..
let me see if i have this right. Monks are OK... no wait a sec, after actually reading info from people who ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME turns out monks are not ok... But wait!!! there are changes coming. Well, no. not this patch (we had no idea monks were broke) but *soon. how long has it been between 1.0.4 and 1.0.5? hmmm well MAYBE in 1.0.6 we will get to Monks... how many people actually work on this game? WHAT DO THEY DO ALL DAY?!?!?!!!!! you can't tell me the game designers are the actual coders, I'm not buying it. And if they are well then clearly we have found the problem.

Oh, and what is with this "we can't just tweek numbers to ballance the class" do you read your own patch notes? what was the last game mechanic change you made that did not involve either "doubling it" or cutting it in half? WHAT IS GOING ON DOWN THERE? of course you can tweek numbers to buff weak skills. ugh all you ever do with your patches is change a variable in a formula and now all of a sudden you can't? who actually believes this load?
I suggest doing the changes before releasing 1.05, otherwise we would have to wait another month or so for 1.06, and thats just unacceptable. Monks have been waiting too long to get their class right, heck i've almost geared my WD from waiting and if it would take more than a week or two to get the class right im sure alot of people would consider dropping it by then if they haven't already yet.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]