Diablo® III

Blizzard, a serious word regarding meteor

....we'll be back with nerd wizard talk after these messages....

ENOUGH!
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That only hurts the 99% while making the 1% that has 1-2 billion worth of gold seem 'just okay'.


I can't believe the whole 99% thing is getting into a game too. I play games to not think about how !@#$ed up the world is man, haha.
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While the proc coefficient on Meteor and its runes is indeed being nerfed, this change really should be viewed within the full context of the patch. Patch 1.0.5 not only introduces [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/Developer_Journal_Defensive_Bonuses_and_Monster_Damage-9_14_2012"]changes to defensive bonuses and monster damage[/url], but also the Monster Power system, and [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7100052/Developer_Journal_Crowd_Control_Changes-9_5_2012"]numerous crowd control improvements[/url]. Combined with the Meteor’s lowered AP cost and decreased delay between cast and impact, these changes made it so Meteor was more appealing to everyone, which is fine. But they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime. Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance. The skill is still very strong, so the tuning on its proc coefficients will hardly trivialize Meteor builds, and we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But are we absolutely working on them.


Thanks for at least acknowledging that there is a serious issue with wizards.
But admitting that there is an issue with our synergy, and cutting our proc coefficients in half but then saying you wont be fixing any of our issues this patch is like saying hey, we are going to royally fvck you guys over and we arent going to fix that until some unknown patch in some unspecified future. This does not inspire any confidence at all, and frankly is down right insulting. Heres an idea, if you dont want to, or cant fix the synergy of wiz skills this patch, how about not fvcking up what little we have going for us for the moment. Its a diablo game, you guys said yourself we are supposed to feel a little over powered, I'd rather be that than be nerfed to hell baring further improvements.
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Thanks for at least acknowledging that there is a serious issue with wizards. But admitting that there is an issue with our synergy, and cutting our proc coefficients in half but then saying you wont be fixing any of our issues this patch is like saying hey, we are going to royally fvck you guys over and we arent going to fix that until some unknown patch in some unspecified future. This does not inspire any confidence at all, and frankly is down right insulting. Heres an idea, if you dont want to, or cant fix the synergy of wiz skills this patch, how about not fvcking up what little we have going for us for the moment. Its a diablo game, you guys said yourself we are supposed to feel a little over powered, I'd rather be that than be nerfed to hell baring further improvements.


^ this is exactly what I'm thinking. Meteor is barely usable on live servers as it is (edit: at least compared to Storm Chaser), and quite frankly nerfing the proc coefficient will fvck up any damage or cast time improvements you might have coming our way.
Edited by yorkaturr#2736 on 10/3/2012 2:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 58
How can there be synergy between most of our skills when half of them require us to channel in place?
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Please stop messing with Proc rates on skills, I like meteor the way it was (not even as good as storm chaser), now I'm worried that since I don't have 1 billion worth of EQ I won't be able to play my favorite class (Wizard). Oh well, hopefully my barb will be up to 60 by the time the Patch hits and I'll just play that till they fix Wizard.
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While the proc coefficient on Meteor and its runes is indeed being nerfed, this change really should be viewed within the full context of the patch. Patch 1.0.5 not only introduces [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/Developer_Journal_Defensive_Bonuses_and_Monster_Damage-9_14_2012"]changes to defensive bonuses and monster damage[/url], but also the Monster Power system, and [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7100052/Developer_Journal_Crowd_Control_Changes-9_5_2012"]numerous crowd control improvements[/url]. Combined with the Meteor’s lowered AP cost and decreased delay between cast and impact, these changes made it so Meteor was more appealing to everyone, which is fine. But they also made the skill extremely efficient (in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime. Efficiency is good, but there needs to a balance. The skill is still very strong, so the tuning on its proc coefficients will hardly trivialize Meteor builds, and we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But are we absolutely working on them.


First Let me say Thanks for actually addressing these issue(s) I know it can be troubling when sorting through all the criticism posts that have been popping up in both the wizards class forums and here

Secondly About the efficiency part I understand where your coming from. To a point developers mean when a skill becomes too efficient because of critical mass and maintain 100% cc uptime. As I feared and others have feared for the longest time your specifically reducing effectiveness(efficiency) across the board to prevent an abuse to a specific build that allows certain skills to synergize well.

What you have currently done and to many others is this with the current listed proc rates. Going into PTR 1.05 I had a specifc goal after reading the first patch notes. This goal was to gather enough Best in slot gear together to make and Infinite meteor shower through having High Apoc and High Critical chance to maintain a constant barrage of meteors. The internal proc rate of the skill Allows for this in 1.04. However using the same gear (maxed soj//Mara's/ Skull grasp// Chantodo's force) all with reducing meteor AP cost and having 28 total Apoc and 66% critical hit chance (buffed) I cannot maintain more than 5 consecutive casts with my gear and astral presence it still simply burns so Ap that the little ap I recover from scoring a crit isn't enough. By comparison I can with same gear without the force) Maintain a near infinite chain of meteor showers in 1.04 live. <---- this is because the proc rate being so much higher allows me a much better chance of returning a total ap on hit of 29.

I am being serious here you Killed a long-term goal of mine and maybe a few others. Even with best in slot gear the only meteor skill I could ever hope to maintain and infinite chain cast now is Star pact. At this point it should be glaringly obvious that the real culprit isn't having a smaller and smaller and shrinking pool of spells that work well with critical mass, but the passive itself.

Please This a humble request maybe have a developer look at instead of reducing all of your LOH and Apoc gear having all their effectiveness halved because other builds are able to maintain situations where mobs are under permenent stuns address the fact that Certain skills are either mandatory because of critical mass, or because of critical mass No other single skill is worth taking. Case in point is having quite a few melee range spells (spectral blades in particular), but having the need for some form of Diamond skin. Maybe a better solution long-term is this, And please I don't need a blue response, but please get a developer to look at the functionality of spells when you separate out the effectiveness of critical mass.

Finally the specific thread I was referring to concerning Critical Mass. Maybe no one ever saw it, thats fine, but I do think it's worth at least a quick look.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6714703020?page=1
Edited by Harrowing#1449 on 10/3/2012 2:25 PM PDT
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Holy moly I am glad I'm not a wiz .... sorry guys :(
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10/03/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future. The sort of changes we’d like to do are more involved than simple numbers-tuning, though, and they weren’t able to make it in with this patch. But are we absolutely working on them.


Great. More nerfs to look forward to. Think I'll go work on my barb.
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Everyone who is complaining about nerf to APOC and wanting every spell to be free should realise there are signature spells for a reason.. There are a whole set of spells that are not as good as otehrs but are free to use when arcane power is down (which is how it should be). Learn to use a signature spell instead of wanting to just explode things non stop. People want a challenge but then they want to be able to kill everything in one second with never running out of AP. Games too easy as it is, I love nerfs.
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I love how blues call them overall buffs and totally ignore the fact that ML5+ exists and the changes are actually an overall nerf.

Sure you can stun lock more easily if your stun lasts longer, and you can probably kill stuff ML5- fast enough that you won't actually need to stun lock them longer than needed but at the harder difficulties you'd just get savaged by the mobs after the stun lock withers away.

Please blues, can you at least TRY to think of higher MLs? Because if it becomes too hard, everyone will just play on ML1-4 as it would become considerably more efficient, even in high tier gear.
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10/03/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Krypton
Everyone who is complaining about nerf to APOC and wanting every spell to be free should realise there are signature spells for a reason.. There are a whole set of spells that are not as good as otehrs but are free to use when arcane power is down (which is how it should be). Learn to use a signature spell instead of wanting to just explode things non stop. People want a challenge but then they want to be able to kill everything in one second with never running out of AP. Games too easy as it is, I love nerfs.


Barb: Can run with almost no use of fury generating skills
Monk: Can run with almost (or none at all) use of spirit generating skills
DH: Can almost spam discipline skills with 1.03 nats, can get enough hatred regen to pretty much spam most hatred-cost spells (but DH has an advantage of having amazing hatred generating skills which wizard doesn't)
Wizard: Can almost non-AP costing skills? NERF NERF NERF
Edited by ZaM#1113 on 10/3/2012 2:24 PM PDT
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The skill is still very strong, so the tuning on its proc coefficients will hardly trivialize Meteor builds, and we anticipate that it will be brought back to roughly where it is currently in patch 1.0.4.


What good would that do? Do the devs know that nobody uses meteor in 1.04 because its garbage?
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The sad thing is, since this thread was redirected to this forum, I am extremely skeptical of any further reply or interest from the blues. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm fairly sure there's going to be 20+ pages of unanswered questions, after that cursory "we know the skills better than you, listen to us, despite the fact that you've all shown and proven how bad the nerf really is. We're blizzard, we know better, it's not a nerf, shut up and play our game".
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I'm so glad I've already beaten inferno on my wizard. It seems like every patch blizzard is taking out another wizard spec.
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10/03/2012 01:53 PMPosted by MasterJay
in fact: too efficient) to get Critical Mass procs and 100% CC uptime


Excuse me?

That said, skill synergy isn’t where we want it to be for wizards at the moment, and we’re looking at ways to improve that for the future


So nerf now and launch 1.05 anyway regardless of how inefficient the current wizard procs and skill synergy are and patch it up in the future when everyone moves on from their wizard?

With all due respect, I appreciate the reply on this issue finally, but this just isn't the proper direction. Bottom line is 90%+ wizards WILL have to stop using a melee build because it will not work efficiently for them. Your developers are killing build diversity based on the sake of an overpowered hell fire ring proc that no one wants to be that powerful in the first place. Let's be honest here.


IMO wizards should never have had the opportunity to be melee. Barb and Monk can Melee, Wizards and DH should be ranges and scared of being hit and WD is just dancing around in the middle. The biggest stuff up was nerfing wickedwind instead of CM since it still keeps plaguing them as people find CM still viable with other skills
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wizard cooldowns are entirely too long. you should stop messing with coefficients and actually do something about what makes wizards flock to CM
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A history of wizard gameplay: Find the highest proc, play it till it is nerfed, rinse, repeat.

Living lightning is too good because CM - nerf
Spectral blades is too good because CM - nerf
WW is too good because CM - nerf
SC is too good because CM - nerf
Spectral blades is too good (again)because CM - nerf
Meteor is too good because CM - nerf

STOP. Please STOP.

CM is too good because of Frost Nova, that is the root of the problem

SO NERF FROST NOVA to be a chill instead of a freeze and return our proc rates on the half dozen nerfs.


this.

facepalm @ blizzards 'adjustments'
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10/03/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Cataca

Then nerf Critical Mass. When you nerf the proc, it's not just CM is affected. It significantly reduce LoH and APoC as well. The fact that we wizard get half the LoH that of any other class is just wrong.


This. Nerf critical mass by 50% and restore old procs, or even better nerf it by 75% and boost coefficients by that margin. As it is you kill our synergies with other skills (storm armor/poison weapon/apoc/loh) are totally ruined for something most people dont actually WANT to use, but are forced to.

Yes, thats right, the proc coeficcients FORCE us to use the cheese 100% frost nova uptime instead of giving build diversity, something you said was your priority.


Or better yet REMOVE FN if they don't want people to perma cc monsters, don't mess with the spell coefficients every few days.
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