Diablo® III

Why End Game Monk Gear > Barb Gear

Lots of people complain that IK's set is so OP compared to monks
And yes this does have some merit.
3 of the IK's set pieces come with 70-80 resist all.
and they don't have to share gear with demon hunters.

But that is only relevant during the early game.
In the end game, you're going to be getting gear with 70-80 resist all anyways.
if it isn't a base enchant, then you're going to get it in one of the random enchantment slots.

I'm going to go through item by item and explain why I feel how I do.

Why the Barb Set Bonus isn't OP
Most barbs, ESPECIALLY end game barbarians, don't use more than 2 pieces of IK.

lets look at the ik set bonuses:
2 piece - 60 resist all
3 piece - 4% reduced melee damage (pff, you thought 0.33 spirit regen sucked?)
5 piece - boosted fury generation and some other stuff

But I know a few barbs, and most of them simply don't go after the 5 piece bonus.
Why? because in the end game it's unnecessary you can do a barbarian build just fine without it.
In the end game, ice climbers, mempos, and rare gloves are so much better than IK boots, gloves, and helmets.

Barbs only get one set
I think this is not mentioned sufficiently.
Yes 60 resistance is a very nice set bonus.
But remember, they only get 1 set.
We monks get 130 dex from 2 piece innas and 7% crit chance from 2 piece natalya's.
Which would you rather have? 130 dex and 7% cc > 60 resist all.

Slot By Slot Comparison:
Helmets
Monks can use mempos and inna's radiance in the end game.
barbarians can use IK's and mempos in the end game.

IK's helmets are just mempos with 5-6% melee reduction instead of IAS.
Which sucks compared to mempos, hence barbarians don't actually use IK helmets in the end game.

Now lets look at inna's radiance.
It can roll up to:
200 dex
100 vit
80 resist all
14% FoT/Sweeping Wind
6% crit chance
Socket

So basically 100 vit instead of 12% life on a mempo.
and 14% FoT/SW instead of 9% IAS on a mempo.

14% FoT/SW is actually a bigger DPS boost than 9% IAS on DW builds.
100 vit is comparable almost exactl the same to 12% life, in my personal experience i'd rather have 100 vit.
Most importantly, inna's radiance contributes to the set bonus. That makes it better than a mempo in the end game, you just need a good roll.

furthermore inna's radiance has better diversity.
Maybe I don't want 70-80 resist all, I can get up to 2.5 spirit regen instead.

So monks and barbs can both use mempos and be on par.
But inna's radiance can be better than a mempo for certain builds, and inna's radiance has more gearing flexibility in the end game.
So monk's win in this slot.

Shoulders
Both classes use vile wards.
Technically, rare shoulders for barbs can roll better than a vile ward.
But that doesn't really ever happen so end game shoulders for both classes are on par.

Barbs win in this slot, but only by a tiny amount because everybody uses vile wards.

Bracers
Both classes are identical in this slot.

Gloves
Monk rare gloves > barb rare gloves because we get up to 300 dex in contrast to up to 200 strength.
but barbarians get IK gloves. but they actually kind of suck.
They waste 2 out of the 6 enchantment slots on melee damage reduction and life regen.
So even if IK gloves roll perfectly, a well rolled monk trifecta will be better.

Chest Armor
Monks have Inna's chest, rare chests, and surcoats
Barbs have IK chest, rare chests., and surcoat

Inna's chest is only situationally useful for the set bonus.
IK chest is actually pretty good. Oddly it rolls bonus armor, which is a bad affix for barbarians since they already have so much armor. Very Ironic.
A rare chest could probably roll better than an IK chest, but not by much.
Since IK's has a set bonus, it's probably better.

So monks take a small loss on this slot.

Belts
In the end game, a well rolled witching hour is BIS by a large margin for monks.
Barbarians use witching hour, IK belt, or rare/mighty belts.
Barb witching hours will have up to 100 more strength than we can roll dex.
and IK belts are really nice with their lifesteal and skill bonuses.

so this slot is better for barbarians.

Pants
Monks have access to innas, blackthornes, and rare pants.
Barbs can use blackthornes or rare pants.
Obviously monks win on this slot.

Boots
Monks can use ice climbers or natalya's bloody footprints.
Barbarians can use ice climbers or IK's boots.

Well IK's boost suck. A lot.
They are 6 enchantment boots, that wastes 1 of the enchantments on 5-6% melee reduction.
Ontop of that they cap at 200 strength, instead of 300 for ice climbers or 300 dex on monk boots.

Did I mention ice climbers have 8 enchantments? Yeah 8.
They blow IK boots ouf of the water.
No Contest. IK boots suck. They SUCK. Capital ES YOU SEE KAY

monks get ice climbers, and the option of natalyas.
Monks win on this slot, by a substantial margin.

Amulets
Identical on both classes

Rings
Monks get access on natalya's ring.
Otherwise it's essentially identical.
And since natalya's rings are so OP, I'd say this is a big upside for monks.

Weapons
We get WKL which is a beast.
Barbarians get 300th Spear, which is good for a very specific and recent build.

we both get echoing furies and butcher's sickles.
shenlongs and bul katho's dual wield sets are basically identical.

so who wins here?
Well considering WKL rolls 2 random enchantments, and thus can actually get lifesteal or crit damage with its socket, I'd say monks win on the weapons department too.

Conclusion:
A perfectly rolled IK chest is slightly better than a rare chest.
So barbarians have a tiny advantage in that for the end game.
Barbarian witching hours will have up to 100 extra strength compared to the dex on monk witching hours.
And they get access to mighty belts with lifesteal, so long as they're willing to sacrifice the huge DPS on a witching hour.

End game monks gear either ties or dominates end game barbarian gear in every other slot.
Also we get 2 set bonuses to play with instead of 1.
Edited by Morionic#1764 on 11/5/2012 4:02 PM PST
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lol
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this may be true... but what about the skills and passives... .. .. . . . .. . . . . .
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11/05/2012 04:12 PMPosted by DictatoHead
this may be true... but what about the skills and passives... .. .. . . . .. . . . . .


didn't say monks are perfect. I think we could use mobility in our skills.
But I am saying that the "barbs have better gear" argument doesn't apply to the end game.

as for skills lets look:
WotB - 10% CC, 25% IAS
Ruthless - 5% CC 50% CD
Weaponmaster - 15% Damage
Battlerage - 3% CC and 15% damage

total:
18% CC -> 1.36x DPS
50% CD -> 1.10x DPS
30% damage -> 1.30x DPS
25% IAS -> 1.17x DPS

~= 2.275x DPS

monks have:
Blazing Wrath - 15% Damage
Blinding Flash - 30% Overall DPS boost if cast before sweeping wind
Overawe - 1.48x more damage

these 3 skills alone are
1.15*1.3*1.48 -> 2.21x DPS

Like, it's pretty balanced.
Monks have really good offensive boosting active skills.
And really defensively oriented passives.

The difference is barbarians have their offensive buffs shifted over to their passives instead of active skill slots.
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I think nobody complain on barb's gears (except ls on belt)

But op on skill and gear price is seem to cheaper than other classes who share the same main attribute.

Peace.
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The best 3pc armor set for Monks - The new Nats set.

The max you can get out of Inna's is 8 crit chance, 9 attack speed and 130 Dex ( Helm , Chest, and Belt).

The New Nat's set of 3 max gives you 19 crit chance, 9 attack speed, 130 Dex, ( Helm, Boot's and Ring).

The only thing good about the Inna's is the pants, that's it.

So the New nat's set is far better then inna's for the Monk.
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WotB - 10% CC, 25% IAS
Ruthless - 5% CC 50% CD
Weaponmaster - 15% Damage
Battlerage - 3% CC and 15% damage

total:
18% CC -> 1.36x DPS
50% CD -> 1.10x DPS
30% damage -> 1.30x DPS
25% IAS -> 1.17x DPS


So for end game, the only thing that counts is the dps included on your paper doll right? Monk gear can be pretty beast for that number, and i'm sure a lot of them have fun farming mp2-3, but what about on MP10? Is MP10 the standard for this so called "End-Game" gear or is this the gear that can get the Highest DPS for fast farming mp1?

The barb will faceroll MP10 with their end gear and even sub monk "end gear" faster than the most geared "end game" monks. Did you account for DPS wasted kiting packs to avoid ice, arcane, RD which the barb Kites (facerolls) THROUGH large pax, maximizing ls,loh,dps and damage mitigation all at the same time with the additional LS and defense inherent in their set and with the mechanics of ww? Did you account for the lost rolls slots we have to give up in our most important items: both of our weapons (or we can use a 2h lol), neck, ring, helm in spirit regen to stay on par with them in run speed? Did you account for the fact that they can build rage while kiting and kite THROUGH the enemy avoiding damage while maximizing DPS at the same time? Monks end up kiting AWAY from packs or stacking LS on both of their weapons - Which is great, but then did you account for the fact that the monk has to get 3LS on his EF instead of 100CD for barb?
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11/05/2012 05:14 PMPosted by TIGER206
So for end game, the only thing that counts is the dps included on your paper doll right? Monk gear can be pretty beast for that number, and i'm sure a lot of them have fun farming mp2-3, but what about on MP10? Is MP10 the standard for this so called "End-Game" gear or is this the gear that can get the Highest DPS for fast farming mp1?

monks can handle MP10 just fine.

11/05/2012 05:14 PMPosted by TIGER206
The barb will faceroll MP10 with their end gear and even sub monk "end gear" faster than the most geared "end game" monks. Did you account for DPS wasted kiting packs to avoid ice, arcane, RD which the barb Kites (facerolls) THROUGH large pax, maximizing ls,loh,dps and damage mitigation all at the same time with the additional LS and defense inherent in their set and with the mechanics of ww? Did you account for the lost rolls slots we have to give up in our most important items: both of our weapons (or we can use a 2h lol), neck, ring, helm in spirit regen to stay on par with them in run speed? Did you account for the fact that they can build rage while kiting and kite THROUGH the enemy avoiding damage while maximizing DPS at the same time? Monks end up kiting AWAY from packs or stacking LS on both of their weapons - Which is great, but then did you account for the fact that the monk has to get 3LS on his EF instead of 100CD for barb?

you sure about that?
there were monks posting MP10 solo's on youtube the day of the release of patch 1.05
And one DH posted a solo on day 1.
I didn't see barbarian solos on youtube until a week later.
that so called world record weapon throw barbarian Throw barbarian got a 53 second azmodan kill.
but there are monks that can do it in under 40.

The best 3pc armor set for Monks - The new Nats set.

The max you can get out of Inna's is 8 crit chance, 9 attack speed and 130 Dex ( Helm , Chest, and Belt).

The New Nat's set of 3 max gives you 19 crit chance, 9 attack speed, 130 Dex, ( Helm, Boot's and Ring).

The only thing good about the Inna's is the pants, that's it.

So the New nat's set is far better then inna's for the Monk.

best natalya's sight roll is:
200 dex
100 vit
1% fear
397 armor
6% crit chance
socket

and you get 130 more dex ontop of that from the set bonus

best inna's roll is:
200 dex
100 vit
80 resist all
6% crit chance
14% sweeping wind/Fot
Socket

even if you factor in the 130 dex, inna's radiance would be better if it rolled perfectly.
Edited by Morionic#1764 on 11/5/2012 5:41 PM PST
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you sure about that?
there were monks posting MP10 solo's on youtube the day of the release of patch 1.05
And one DH posted a solo on day 1.
I didn't see barbarian solos on youtube until a week later.
that so called world record weapon throw ba


lol, the barbs were all bored of clearing mp10 ubers solo time and time again in the beta. Please this thread is dead, you made yourself look like a fool, stop posting here or address one of my actual points.
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@ Morionic

I was talking about basic set pc's and a 3 pc set of Nat's = The best for Monks. 3pc Nat's give you 5 more cc over the 3 pc Inna's set. That's just the basics. Like I said the only good thing about the Inna's is the pants.
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LOL! Not true when Monk is not on top of the Diablo progress.
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Correction on your pants.. barbs also wear innas because it can roll str and vit. See a very well geared barb below wearing innas pants

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004014075

But I do agree monk has more options since we share equip with DH. But that also causes the price to go up.
Edited by Jubei104#1417 on 11/5/2012 8:15 PM PST
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Items like WKL with +25%light or Inna's radiance with 14% FoT/Sweeping Wind is not cheap for a good one, and its only good for particular skill / build.
I dont buy it bcoz of the price and blizzard often nerf popular skill or buff unpopular skill for "build diversity"
Old time Frenzy>Bash, and now Bash>frenzy is a good example.
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I made a 90k dps barb that was able to clear faster than my 110k dps monk, the only reason
I haven't switched is because my monk has 60 paragon levels.

D3 balance is a joke, these devs are bad and they should feel bad.
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wait... since when we commented on barb gear? it is a SKILL... just one skill - WoTB. Actually just one particular rune - Thrive on Chaos.

so I run MP10 uber with 2 barbs getting NVs and 2 group of elite mobs lured together happen to be elite (blue) and both has frozen affix.

what's next? monk struggling to get out of orb before they blast. barb just spin and spin...

just describing how OP the CC immunity is. If not for that skill, monk is pretty much on par with barb (survivability only slightly less due to LS on barb's belt)
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Obviously D/W is inferior for farming compared to 2-H as a Monk.
- Get a Skorn and a SoJ
- Use this Build http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#bcYSTQ!bcd!cZcbcZ
- Do Alkaizer runs on MP0 in 6 Minutes, get 10M XP while doing so and tons of legs
- Laugh at Barbs
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Correction on your pants.. barbs also wear innas because it can roll str and vit. See a very well geared barb below wearing innas pants

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004014075

But I do agree monk has more options since we share equip with DH. But that also causes the price to go up.

that's interesting.
I suppose barbarians actually like getting a little extra dex to top off their dodge a bit.
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everything morionic says is true for u right now...

if u are a dual credit card wielder. (or already endgame, congrats then)

in midgame, barbs still outclass monks by quite the margin on the same IGG budget.
Edited by HuntingFox#6284 on 11/6/2012 8:28 AM PST
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Really not sure how people think that monk gear is more expensive than barb gear. Barb is expensive and of all the set items the IK is by far the most expensive. Anyway some barbs are actually leaning towards that extra dex on gear for the dodge bonus with the dodge rune on warcry. Dodge, 60k life 350-400 AR = able to tank MP 8-9 ubers with over 100k dps.

I might be mistaken but I find when I sell good monk gear the barb equivalent in more expensive.

I was wondering how much it cost to gear a monk to around 100k dps and tanky enough to tank mp8-9?

PS. AWESOME JOB on the math. So many monks gripe about the lack off offensive passives but you hit it on the head. Hidden bonuses are KING. This applies to many builds including Throw barbs and other classes/builds that arent all about the paper dps! We need more constructive forums like this one.
Edited by Fatbabydyer#1175 on 11/6/2012 8:36 AM PST
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