Diablo® III

Molten Impact VS Liquefy

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I've been debating between the two and having trouble decide which is better. Just hoping for some input from people who have been using meteor as their main damage source on the pros and cons of each Skill Rune.

btw, I'm using meteor in conjunction with LL as my main proc (not WW).
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Liquify owns all. Thats why they put it last.
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Liquify until you get the CC/Apoc recovery to use Impact.
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it really depends on battle length which depends on mp/dps. Molten works best when your battle is twister spin up and molten. 1 cycle. Liquify works nice for a multi cycle battle. However when you battle is multiple cycles long you are not farming loot fast... Also note arcane destruction/evocation followed by a immediate un-archon might work better in some situations.
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sorry my friend who doesnt add me

390 + 20 + 20 + 20

vs

260 + 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20

Plus proc city mean more Liquefies!

Course novice will say showers. Guess it's testing time. Hard to test though. Single boss doesnt work.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 11/14/2012 8:50 PM PST
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You did read the bit under Liquify thats says "ON CRIT"........

You've never requested a friend invite.

To be honest play what you enjoy and suits your style the most. I bloody loved doing SNS and hitting with a 1million smackdown Meteor.... big numbers count when your used to seeing 50k spam from Shocking Aspect.
Edited by Aphraell#1269 on 11/14/2012 8:50 PM PST
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Yeah that is largely meaningless though cuz like everything in dot has a sheet crit chance of making it stay 8 seconds. 3 is 88% with 50% crit. 5 unit in dot is 94%.

And true man .. prolly a dimes worth of difference. OP just need to try em and see what he likes best. I can't run Molten. Least not to extent I can with liquefy due to 20 apox. So for me it's a no brainer. Would love to have 30 and get molten impact in all its glory.

Also would love to have some CD and see some 1m crits.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 11/14/2012 9:03 PM PST
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390 + 20 + 20 + 20

vs

260 + 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20


could you please finish your equation?? having trouble with this portion of the debate...

I guess I'm going to stick with molten impact atm even though im only running 19APOC. Ive found the 3 big bombs in rapid succession everything but the largest of enemies (when they all hit). And for elites a little bit of running around is always required when using LL as proc agent.

~~~

on another note, I saw a thread here earlier about the inability of bloodmagic to make a meaningful difference against RD, and in general.

Thus, any comments on using a familiar (20% wep dmg) as opposed to the 10%/15% Magic Weapon? Also, anyone tried using the poison magic weapon? Does it add 10% to sheet dmg and an additional 5%+5%+5% over three seconds?

Just trying to be as efficient as possible with LLMeteor Build :) all these little things add up...
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11/14/2012 08:43 PMPosted by RulerEric
Also note arcane destruction/evocation followed by a immediate un-archon might work better in some situations.


immediate un-archon...been turning this phrase over in my head for a while now...??
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390 + 20 + 20 + 20

vs

260 + 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20


could you please finish your equation?? having trouble with this portion of the debate...

I guess I'm going to stick with molten impact atm even though im only running 19APOC. Ive found the 3 big bombs in rapid succession everything but the largest of enemies (when they all hit). And for elites a little bit of running around is always required when using LL as proc agent.

~~~

on another note, I saw a thread here earlier about the inability of bloodmagic to make a meaningful difference against RD, and in general.

Thus, any comments on using a familiar (20% wep dmg) as opposed to the 10%/15% Magic Weapon? Also, anyone tried using the poison magic weapon? Does it add 10% to sheet dmg and an additional 5%+5%+5% over three seconds?

Just trying to be as efficient as possible with LLMeteor Build :) all these little things add up...


I'm no good with math so i have to test things. But basically

molten impact lands for 390% and does 60% more damage as they sit in molten.

Liquify lands for 260% and can do 160% more damage as they sit in molten. Somewhere between a 50% and 99% chance.

Okay so molten is ahead
450% vs 420% per met best case

However where liquify takes over is procs allowing more 420%ers meteors than 450% metoers.

Procs about twice as good meaning double AP returns.

My opinion is if you can spam molten molten beats liquify. If you can't liquify beat molten. Apart from spamming - There is some point where liquify takes over. I don't know where that is...u need to test.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 11/14/2012 9:30 PM PST
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Meteor soj for sale
+30% bonus vs elites
-5 AP for meteor
+15 max AP
+5% fire dmg (only place not perfect) 6% is perfect)
On gah for 350m :)
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It really depends on your gear. Higher crit builds (45+) with lots of life on hit should be taking liquify. Those with a good lifesteal weapon and more life regen should opt for the much harder hitting and effecient (I'd argue) molten impact.
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sorry my friend who doesnt add me

390 + 20 + 20 + 20

vs

260 + 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20

Plus proc city mean more Liquefies!

Course novice will say showers. Guess it's testing time. Hard to test though. Single boss doesnt work.

you mean

390 + 30 + 30 + 30

260 + 20 + 20 + 20 ( on crit 20+ 20+ 20+ 20+ 20)
Missing 130 after 0 secs
Missing 160 after 3 secs
chance to be Missing 60 after 8 secs

The dmg is front loaded for a quick end.

I am interested in how liquify compares to 20% dmg bubble to someone running SNS at those mp's.

Also note arcane destruction/evocation followed by a immediate un-archon might work better in some situations.


immediate un-archon...been turning this phrase over in my head for a while now...??

you can set archon as right click and you can hover the mouse in your aura bar where the archon box appears and then right click twice and only consume 1 cast and almost waste no time in archon.
Edited by RulerEric#1854 on 11/14/2012 10:22 PM PST
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HIGH CD - MOLTEN
HIGH APS - LIQUIEFY
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Come on fellas this isn't that hard of math here...

Molten in 30% dot...

390 + 30 + 30 + 30

vs

260 + 20 + 20 + 20 ( + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 )

So thats 480% over 3 seconds vs...

320% over 3 seconds + 88% chance of 100% over 5 more seconds...

So 480 over 3 seconds vs ~408% over 8 seconds.

So no, liquify doesn't win, its terrible. The reason to use liquify is to get slightly more CM from your meteors. You give up both damage in long battles and ALOT of damage in short battles. Large groups of whites just MELT to molten impact, while liquify is flaccid.
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I can spam about half the metoers with molten as with liquefy. Maybe if you have 30 apoc molten is better but I consider it terrible cuz procs are terrible. about half
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Aimless math is correct, but it also assumes 2 things

#1 both targets would need to be standing still obviously, for testing purposes. @ 3 targets and 33% crit chance liquefy will ALWAYS be the better proc choice. @ 42% or above crit chance it becomes the better damage version

#2 APS has the exact same effect for all meteor runes

In terms of total expect damage of 6+ casts for molten I.e. the maximum expected sustain casts before you run out of ap when running with good (-20 reduction 50% cc 20 apoc) against a single target.

Except for when meteor shower comes into play... I wont do the math, but simply put if meteor shower hits 4 or more times per cast its comes out above all the other runes. Too bad meteor shower sucks against single small targets.

Basically at this point test out these 4 runes and decide which you like best

Molten (low crit high intelligence i.e. @ 33% crit unbuffed or lower low proc rate//spikey damage)
Star pact(moderate damage with easy spammability)
Meteor shower (for the highest damage, highest proc against crowds i.e. +5 monsters)
Liquefy @ 42% crit chance or above with the okay damage and proc rate for single targets)
Edited by Harrowing#1449 on 11/15/2012 4:20 PM PST
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The dot almost ALWAYS lasts 8 seconds because if you crit ANY target within the dot it stays. So 3 leets with 50% CC is 88% it stays a full 8 seconds.

The reason I say almost always is cuz meets suck on single target, actually lower DPS for me than standard SNS, so you're invariably spamming on crowds in order to spam in first place. So 50% crit chance is largely meaningless in real game since you're hitting large crowds or at least 3 elites.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 11/15/2012 1:01 AM PST
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^I'm sorry man you have some extra *3 in there somewhere.

Against 3 targets Molten will be...

390 * 3 targets + (30 * 3seconds * 3 targets) = 1440% * 6 meteors = 8640% total % weapon damage

Liquify at 50% crit...

260 * 3 targets + ( 20 * 3seconds * 3 targets ) + ( 0.875 * 20 * 5seconds * 3 targets ) = 1222.5% * 6 meteors = 7335% total % weapon damage
Edited by Shandlar#1961 on 11/15/2012 1:00 AM PST
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Please do AP return on that too Shand with 20 apoc and 50% CC.

Then add that extra AP to how many more liquifies you can cast.

I think the math will trounce molten,

I see it in game but dont know how to do equations
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 11/15/2012 1:09 AM PST
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