Diablo® III

[Guide] Comprehensive CMWW Guide

Awesome work OP. Good summary.

For starters: for me @ 2.5 as, 20 apoc and 55% cc, it's huge difference between 50% cc and 55% cc. I use Pinpoint rune on Energy Armor to get to the 55% cc.

Also, Cold Snap and Evocation are must have to good stun locking single targets. And it's not 100%.

Just for info.
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Thanks for the replies and suggestions. As far as the abreviations, I took the standard scientific notation and used the abreviation along with the definition when first implemented. However, I'll take the suggestion and add a glossary at the beggining. I think I also mistakenly used CD for both Cool Down and Crit Damage, so I'll fix that too.

I'll be updating the guide here shortly since I have some spare time and can't actually play Diablo. For some reason running computer code and playing Diablo at the same time doesn't work very well. Go figure.

@RobertVarga
I'd recommend dropping Energy Armor for Shocking Aspect. You should see a very significant dps increase because SA does tons of damage. Your CM procs will suffer a bit but the extra dps makes up for it. IMO it's worth dropping MP levels so you can run SA, and I only recommend using energy armor against Uber bosses when you have low armor and/or resists., or if your dps doesn't matter (then use pinpoint).

I actually don't notice any difference with and without pinpoint barrier with similar stats in test fights against Ghom. However, that's single target against something that stands in WW 100% of the time, so if you were talking about farming efficiency I'm willing to agree the extra 5% should make a bit of a difference.
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Liked and requested sticky. Thanks, Loroese.
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Hoping for advices with my problems

My basic stats are as below.
DPS: 100k
Armor: 4600
All Res: 523
Life: 33k
EHP: 213k
DR: 84.7%, based on [1- (1-AR)x(1-Armor)]
LoH: 1090
Apoc: 19

Right now, I can go either breakpoints but which will be more efficient?
APS: 2.51, Crit: 48.5%
APS: 2.74, Crit: 45%

Also, from Lorosee's table, I should be able to do Mp5/6 fine. However, I get slaughtered by elites and A2 keywarden in MP4/5 instead, even with crystal shell.

Things that kills me:
1. firechains/ vortex or firechains/ fast
2. chain frozen orbs (esp when the orbs are hidden by the minions)
3. A2 keywarden whirlwind and mortar
4. Fast surround by multiple phase beasts with nova coming in too late

I can do fine with Energy armor though. (Currently using blur instead of evo for more survivability.)

Is my ehp insufficient or I need better strategy dealing with the problems highlighted?
Edited by Spyky#1981 on 12/10/2012 9:13 PM PST
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Right now, I can go either breakpoints but which will be more efficient?
APS: 2.51, Crit: 48.5%
APS: 2.74, Crit: 45%


Rough math alert....

Case 2 will result in roughly 9-10% more CM procs from twisters (4.05 a second vs 3.70 a second at max wind up per target)

Case 2 will result in rougly 18-19% more LoH return from twisters (9800 vs 8250 life per second per target at max wind up

Assuming paper dps and your armour/AR are roughly the same in both cases, Case 2 will result in considerably higher surviveability and roughly the same offensive ability (gaining IAS and losing CC will reduce your multiplier by a small margin however).

If the second case results in any paper dps increase its definitely your best bet, esp if your having trouble with deaths.

12/10/2012 08:55 PMPosted by Spyky
I can do fine with Energy armor though. (Currently using blur instead of evo for more survivability.)


Blur is terrible, Evocation is > Blur for surviveability. 15% more nova's means you take less melee attacks, 15% more diamond skin means you have far more 'free' health.
Edited by Shandlar#1961 on 12/10/2012 9:43 PM PST
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Hoping for advices with my problems

My basic stats are as below.
DPS: 100k
Armor: 4600
All Res: 523
Life: 33k
EHP: 213k
DR: 84.7%, based on [1- (1-AR)x(1-Armor)]
LoH: 1090
Apoc: 19

Right now, I can go either breakpoints but which will be more efficient?
APS: 2.51, Crit: 48.5%
APS: 2.74, Crit: 45%

Also, from Lorosee's table, I should be able to do Mp5/6 fine. However, I get slaughtered by elites and A2 keywarden in MP4/5 instead, even with crystal shell.

Things that kills me:
1. firechains/ vortex or firechains/ fast
2. chain frozen orbs (esp when the orbs are hidden by the minions)
3. A2 keywarden whirlwind and mortar
4. Fast surround by multiple phase beasts with nova coming in too late

I can do fine with Energy armor though. (Currently using blur instead of evo for more survivability.)

Is my ehp insufficient or I need better strategy dealing with the problems highlighted?


In addition to what Shandlar said above, make sure you're actively avoiding those things that can kill you. My EHP table is meant for you to be able to survive in general, not to be able to facetank all the AoE. It's actually those things that are the most dangerous, as well as RD+Electrified combo. Also, if you're not using it I recommend using teleport, either until you get used to avoiding things, you reach the point you don't need to avoid things, or just keep it. It makes it a lot easier to survive. You can also lower the MP a little until you get used to avoiding things.
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How do you do that long math?

At what CC does 2.73 20 apoc beat 3.0 52% in game CC 20 apoc.
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12/10/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Shandlar
Blur is terrible, Evocation is > Blur for surviveability. 15% more nova's means you take less melee attacks, 15% more diamond skin means you have far more 'free' health.


I don't agree on this. I don't have any issues surviving the odd hit when already spamming 123. But Blur definately helps me get into a better position prior to the lockdowns or if I'm trying to kite up a bigger group to blow up.

Personally the 3rd passive is kinda crap to choose from. Not alot do much thats noticible to me except Glass Cannon.
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^Adding APoC makes it impossible to theorycraft properly. Too many variables.

My calculations assume you have ampel AP at all times.

3.01 APS and 52% Crit chance at 20 APoC calcs out to roughly...

Max wind up (13 twisters stacked)

5.65 CM procs per second per target
8.67 AP per target per twister per second
10.8x your LoH target per second

2.73 APS and 20 APoC....

Max wind up (12 twisters stacked)

5.65 CM / 0.125 / 12 / 6 = 62.75 (63.0) Crit chance to match CM proc rate
8.67 AP / 0.125 / 20 / 6 = 57.8 (58.0) Crit chance to match AP return rate per twister
10.8 / 0.125 / 12 / 6 = 1.2 (need 120% as much LoH to obtain the same healing)

These are extremely rough and the max twister changes alot. Just using rough guesstimates for effect that somewhat approximate single target situations in game.
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Wow. 3 ias so so much easier... thanks shand.

I have been vaslating between going 3 (mempo required) or staying 2.73 and keeping my 3 apoc sources cuz i love meteors. 3 it is I guess. no good way for me to get 63% CC @2.73 (read cheap and keeping defenses)
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 12/10/2012 10:30 PM PST
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Right now, I can go either breakpoints but which will be more efficient?
Case 2 will result in roughly 9-10% more CM procs from twisters (4.05 a second vs 3.70 a second at max wind up per target)

Case 2 will result in rougly 18-19% more LoH return from twisters (9800 vs 8250 life per second per target at max wind up


Thanks for the help, but how do you do the maths and calucation of CM procs?

I calucated using the following and got a 1% improvement.

Probability of Crit chance (2.51aps) per twister = 33ticks x 0.485(Crit chance) = 16.005
Probability of Crit chance (2.73aps) per twister = 36ticks x 0.45 (crit chance) = 16.2


Blur is terrible, Evocation is > Blur for surviveability. 15% more nova's means you take less melee attacks, 15% more diamond skin means you have far more 'free' health.


Thanks, always though evo is a overrated skill, especially since it only reduce cooldowns by ~2 sec, which is equivalent to 2 crit hits. Will have to test it out.


In addition to what Shandlar said above, make sure you're actively avoiding those things that can kill you. My EHP table is meant for you to be able to survive in general, not to be able to facetank all the AoE. It's actually those things that are the most dangerous, as well as RD+Electrified combo. Also, if you're not using it I recommend using teleport, either until you get used to avoiding things, you reach the point you don't need to avoid things, or just keep it. It makes it a lot easier to survive. You can also lower the MP a little until you get used to avoiding things.

Yeah, using teleport. I don't usually no prob with most affixes, its just certain affix combinations that kills me, especially fire chains coupled with fast or vortex because of the hit recovery rate.
Edited by Spyky#1981 on 12/10/2012 11:48 PM PST
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Thanks for the help, but how do you do the maths and calucation of CM procs?

I calucated using the following and got a 1% improvement.

Probability of Crit chance (2.51aps) per twister = 33ticks x 0.485(Crit chance) = 16.005
Probability of Crit chance (2.73aps) per twister = 36ticks x 0.45 (crit chance) = 16.2


At 2.73 aps you will have more twisters faster as well. You have to make an assumption since nova will eat a certain amount of your APS, and as your CM/s goes up, nova will eat more twister turns, but as a rule of thumb I use...

2.501 = 11 twisters stacked (1.83 aps to twister, 0.667 used for nova)
2.73 = 12 twisters stacked (2.00 aps to twister, 0.73 used for nova)
3.01 = 13 twisters stacked (2.17 aps to twister, 0.84 used for nova)

To approximate LoH and CM returns from twisters at max wind up vs a single target.
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Yeah, using teleport. I don't usually no prob with most affixes, its just certain affix combinations that kills me, especially fire chains coupled with fast or vortex because of the hit recovery rate.


Those affixes are just very unforgiving, so be sure to make good use of teleport, and when around fire chains, make sure you stand to the side of them, never letting them surround you. It can be pretty annoying when you only have 2 frozen and one runs around to get at you.

I forgot to mention it but for the A2 KW, he's just a huge pain. He seems impossible to just chain freeze at 2.5 or 2.73 APS so you just have to get the best lock you can, and when he starts spinning, teleport away and run around until he stops, then teleport back in, freeze him, and repeat. He's by far the hardest of the 3.
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thanks followed this and an earlier guide to build a CMWW to help with Uber runs and to mix it up vs. my 'Nado barb.
i sniped my wand for 350K (someone forgot 2 zeroes?) so not dead set on keeping IAS wand , but it made for an easy entry into CMWW, and gloves/jewelry came from my barb (since IAS/CC/AR works well for barb too)
I have yet to try Uber's but can SLOWLY make my way through MP8-10 elites
From my profile, do you see glaring holes that would hinder my ability to provide the freeze for Uber runs (ping/latency limited?)
.
I have Int gems to swap for chest, and would appreciate thoughts on next direction
1) higher DPS (and APOC?) source?
2) Socket Wand and stay at 2.73
3) Storm Crow for APOC (have 180 vit / 80 int Lacuni to hit 3.01 or Slow Time Bubble?)

Also grabbed a 25%/6% cold SOJ with 6% Energy Twister if that would be a good Uber option to up DPS (with Cold Blooded?), since I don't really notice Astral Presence
Edited by TrojanDomer#1323 on 12/11/2012 11:21 AM PST
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thanks followed this and an earlier guide to build a CMWW to help with Uber runs and to mix it up vs. my 'Nado barb.
i sniped my wand for 350K (someone forgot 2 zeroes?) so not dead set on keeping IAS wand , but it made for an easy entry into CMWW, and gloves/jewelry came from my barb (since IAS/CC/AR works well for barb too)
I have yet to try Uber's but can SLOWLY make my way through MP8-10 elites
From my profile, do you see glaring holes that would hinder my ability to provide the freeze for Uber runs (ping/latency limited?)
.
I have Int gems to swap for chest, and would appreciate thoughts on next direction
1) higher DPS (and APOC?) source?
2) Socket Wand and stay at 2.73
3) Storm Crow for APOC (have 180 vit / 80 int Lacuni to hit 3.01 or Slow Time Bubble?)

Also grabbed a 25%/6% cold SOJ with 6% Energy Twister if that would be a good Uber option to up DPS (with Cold Blooded?), since I don't really notice Astral Presence


You're already at the 3.0 breakpoint which should be great for the ubers. If you're grouping you don't really need to worry much about dps, especially since you'll make the fights very easy. However, I suspect the low dps is why it took you ages to kill elites in MP8-10. I have about twice your dps and usually stick to MP7 for efficient key farming (though I might start running MP8).

The main thing I see is your Int is pretty low, which really hurts your dps. A few of your pieces don't have any Int, so you can try upgrading those to make solo farming a bit faster. Most of those upgrades will likely be cheaper than getting a higher DPS OH if you keep APoC on it. You can also use a socket wand for solo farming that will raise your dps. Your armor and resists are high enough that you shouldn't have many problems with survival if you maintain your resist total on gear and upgrade your int by 600-1k or so.
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Thanks for the help, but how do you do the maths and calucation of CM procs?

I calucated using the following and got a 1% improvement.

Probability of Crit chance (2.51aps) per twister = 33ticks x 0.485(Crit chance) = 16.005
Probability of Crit chance (2.73aps) per twister = 36ticks x 0.45 (crit chance) = 16.2


At 2.73 aps you will have more twisters faster as well. You have to make an assumption since nova will eat a certain amount of your APS, and as your CM/s goes up, nova will eat more twister turns, but as a rule of thumb I use...

2.501 = 11 twisters stacked (1.83 aps to twister, 0.667 used for nova)
2.73 = 12 twisters stacked (2.00 aps to twister, 0.73 used for nova)
3.01 = 13 twisters stacked (2.17 aps to twister, 0.84 used for nova)

To approximate LoH and CM returns from twisters at max wind up vs a single target.

I don't think at 3.01 you will see over 5 twisters cast for every 2 novas. That would requires ALOT of nova micro. Would like to see a high fps recording of 3.01 aps verse a pack. I think if your spamming 1,2,3 with some sorta key/mouse bind it becomes a 1 twister 1 nova firing sequence for most the battle until it becomes a single target...
Edited by RulerEric#1854 on 12/11/2012 3:01 PM PST
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How do you check how much APoC you actually have? I'm not sure how much I have and where to check.
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I don't think at 3.01 you will see over 5 twisters cast for every 2 novas. That would requires ALOT of nova micro. Would like to see a high fps recording of 3.01 aps verse a pack. I think if your spamming 1,2,3 with some sorta key/mouse bind it becomes a 1 twister 1 nova firing sequence for most the battle until it becomes a single target...


Those are numbers for single targets only, which is the only time perm freezing and AP issues ever come into play. No-one has AP issues or problems freezing against 2 or more targets. But yes. against more targets you will have many more novas and many fewer twisters.

The ratio between those three IAS cases of twisters to novas wont change by too much in relation to each other, however, so the rough estimations are still valid.
Edited by Shandlar#1961 on 12/12/2012 4:37 AM PST
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12/12/2012 03:55 AMPosted by Avixen69
How do you check how much APoC you actually have? I'm not sure how much I have and where to check.


Add it from your weapon, helm, and OH, where applicable. Those are the only places you can get it at the moment.
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Wow. 3 ias so so much easier... thanks shand.

I have been vaslating between going 3 (mempo required) or staying 2.73 and keeping my 3 apoc sources cuz i love meteors. 3 it is I guess. no good way for me to get 63% CC @2.73 (read cheap and keeping defenses)


Go for 3 with IAS Wand, I dont see why not. I'm only at 2.73 because I use CD Wand, I can easily switch to 3 with IAS.

The goal is to reach 3 with IAS Wand, you can go back to 2.73 anytime just by switching Wand. Despite the maths I still have little (to none) problem with 19 APoC anw.
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