Diablo® III

Criticising Diablo 3

Posts: 1
THIS!
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Regarding the death timer: The incrementing death timer is actually being removed in 1.0.7.


ho ho ho

another historical moment since the invulnerable affix and enrage timer removed from elites
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01/08/2013 05:24 PMPosted by st4cks
this scrub must had difficulty with makin a build ^^ hahahaha or didnt play d2


Wth? I beat inferno in July. I quit until 1.05 and didn't gear up until 1.06 where I can do MP5 pretty quick. I main a Monk. There are literally only 3 builds to choose from. Overawe spam became boring...I hate 2 handers and TR's animation...so what does that leave me with? Backlash and Resolve.

I didn't troll anyone so why troll me. Seriously the problem with most people here. They troll everyone else who doesn't meet or beat their epeen. And they praise Blizzard even if they keep everyone in the dark and pretty much dropped the ball with this franchise.

We need an expansion to make this game better than D2? Uhm...it should have owned D2 out of the gate.


He didn't meant you, you happen to submit post right before he did, so...
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01/08/2013 05:49 PMPosted by Ignatius
How is that devolution? A death timer isn't a game breaking feature. It's hardly even a feature. Most could care less if it's in there or not. No need to be so dramatic. Let them do what they want without ripping your face off and eating your eye balls.


when they added death timers the game evolved, i evolved with it and made a barb. when they removed what was added the game devolved. i personally think death timers were a bad idea. They were not there at game release and were added to prevent zerging. Being able to draw a champion/elite to a spawn point and die repeatedly while killing them was not "game breaking". I never said it was. It does however alter the direction a person might pick when gearing a character. Or selecting a class in the first place.
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01/08/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Endeavour
I would really be interested in knowing what kind of IT development project management model the dev team uses in it's design and coding phase. That fact that many of the design choices tend to steer away from decisions of greater complexity (i.e. removing features) leads me to believe that it may be of the Agile model, in which each specific dev group must "successfully" complete a set number of tasks in a certain period of time. This system focuses on the quantity of tasks considered to be "completed" instead of the quality. Obviously, the easiest way to do this is to keep the design simple and not add multiple variables that would affect other dev groups.
Based on their release schedule and intervals between patches i'd say it looks more like waterfall.


I'm an Data Security and Privacy attorney with tons of experience with IT system development. Maybe I should apply to Blizz to help them with their dev team coordination and legal troubles. They HAVE to be better to work for than the Feds. Haha
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01/08/2013 06:15 PMPosted by Mendacium
Based on their release schedule and intervals between patches i'd say it looks more like waterfall.


I'm an Data Security and Privacy attorney with tons of experience with IT system development. Maybe I should apply to Blizz to help them with their dev team coordination and legal troubles. They HAVE to be better to work for than the Feds. Haha


By any chance did you get hacked during the summer?
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01/08/2013 05:29 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We feel that as the game has evolved and stands now, there are sufficient penalties associated with character death, so the incrementing death timer it doesn’t feel necessary anymore.


Its not the timer thats so bad but the monumental walk back to where you were from the last checkpoint. Am I the only one who basis entire game strategies on getting to a check point, i.e. dragging elite bosses whenever possible to the next check point to avoid the marathon of running back to where you were? I am not sure if that is meant to be the 'punishment' for dying but I for one find it excruciatingly annoying and because of it I refuse to play on a higher MP setting. I am not going to be made a fool of having to spend 2 minutes walking back to a particularly tough fight and then possibly die again immediately and have to do it again. If that is a design choice, I have a great psychiatrist to recommend to the developers.
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bump. very interesting ideas. even-handed critique. what say you blizz gods?
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01/08/2013 06:20 PMPosted by slicktrick
We feel that as the game has evolved and stands now, there are sufficient penalties associated with character death, so the incrementing death timer it doesn’t feel necessary anymore.


Its not the timer thats so bad but the monumental walk back to where you were from the last checkpoint. Am I the only one who basis entire game strategies on getting to a check point, i.e. dragging elite bosses whenever possible to the next check point to avoid the marathon of running back to where you were? I am not sure if that is meant to be the 'punishment' for dying but I for one find it excruciatingly annoying and because of it I refuse to play on a higher MP setting. I am not going to be made a fool of having to spend 2 minutes walking back to a particularly tough fight and then possibly die again immediately and have to do it again. If that is a design choice, I have a great psychiatrist to recommend to the developers.


Please just scatter a few checkpoints around each of the maps, and I will be a very happy camper.
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Community Manager
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01/08/2013 05:28 PMPosted by Gunny
What's she's really saying is "Be glad we did anything for you. Regardless of what you may think, the changes were great and the game is big fun. Item choices are interesting, stat allocation is spot on, and if you can't see that then.. well, you're just not doing it right."


Yeah it’s… not really cool to try and paraphrase my words in order to twist the sentiment of my post. :-/

Design decisions are made with a lot in mind, and it’s an ongoing development process that often involves a lot of people. While I can try to offer insight into why we’ve made or are considering certain design decisions, at the end of the day, people’s opinions on it will undoubtedly vary from person-to-person, and since the folks here at Blizzard are gamers just like you, you can bet this passionate bunch has some varied opinions about all sorts of things relating to Diablo III.

While there are aspects of the game you’re bound to jive with, there are undoubtedly others that simply might not be your cup of tea (or blood, since we’re talking about slaying demons here). If you’ve noticed something that you think could be improved, we truly do want to hear about it, but bear in mind that while a lot of feedback we receive sounds really neat (and believe me, I’ve seen some incredibly awesome ideas floating around here), that doesn’t mean we have the bandwidth to do it all, nor that we necessarily believe that certain ideas are best for Diablo III. But as I’ve said before, we’re down to continue to improve it and make it the best game we possibly can.
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Yeah it’s… not really cool to try and paraphrase my words in order to twist the sentiment of my post. :-/

Design decisions are made with a lot in mind, and it’s an ongoing development process that often involves a lot of people. While I can try to offer insight into why we’ve made or are considering certain design decisions, at the end of the day, people’s opinions on it will undoubtedly vary from person-to-person, and since the folks here at Blizzard are gamers just like you, you can bet this passionate bunch has some varied opinions about all sorts of things relating to Diablo III.

While there are aspects of the game you’re bound to jive with, there are undoubtedly others that simply might not be your cup of tea (or blood, since we’re talking about slaying demons here). If you’ve noticed something that you think could be improved, we truly do want to hear about it, but bear in mind that while a lot of feedback we receive sounds really neat (and believe me, I’ve seen some incredibly awesome ideas floating around here), that doesn’t mean we have the bandwidth to do it all, nor that we necessarily believe that certain ideas are best for Diablo III. But as I’ve said before, we’re down to continue to improve it and make it the best game we possibly can.


how can you explain the absence of shields? Now after level 60, ​​everything we've seen is people using one-handed weapon or two-handed weapon.

you do not already think it's time to create new legendary items?
Edited by Libano#1235 on 1/8/2013 6:35 PM PST
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CM is the voice of the developers.
If this is the CM voice.
Then you guys are gonna certainly be sure that D3 dev doesnt even try to grasp what people has been critisizing.


has it ever occurred to you that maybe YOU are the one who is not grasping their design decisions? she's right about stat points and skill trees ... they are archaic and ultimately pointless.


because game companies can't improve stat systems in 12 years. It is nothing more than a dumbing down of the game to sell to younger and less intelligent people. blizzard treats its audience like we are stupid and some people seem okay with this.

but I can agree with being able to allocate your own stats doesn't fit in diablo 3 because the stats themselves are shallow and dull. So allocating your own stats isn't pointless its the shallow design by blizzard that makes it pointless. They chose to go one way but don't tell me being able to allocate your stats is archaic, we just need a dev team that will take the time to come up with a system that is deeper than the one we got in diablo 3.

and honestly i don't think blizzard knows what their design decisions for diablo 3 are anymore. too much flip flopping on almost everything. Old Diablo 2 things making their way back into the game. PVP being scrapped after 2+ years of "testing"(why does it take 2+ years to figure out that TDM isn't working or good? Why?). There just seems to be a lack of direction, vision and focus on what they want diablo 3 to be. They keep saying one thing and doing another.

I think most agree that Itemization is the main problem with diablo 3. (i could be wrong) but i haven't seen this addressed at all(legendaries aside but we all know it should have never had to be fixed in the first place).
Edited by Kinkywizard#1752 on 1/8/2013 6:40 PM PST
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then why havent u guys added ID all and other small things from Diablo 2 that would make the game undoubtedly better for the masses?
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I'm an Data Security and Privacy attorney with tons of experience with IT system development. Maybe I should apply to Blizz to help them with their dev team coordination and legal troubles. They HAVE to be better to work for than the Feds. Haha


By any chance did you get hacked during the summer?


Luckily, no. I changed my battle.net password as soon as the breach was reported.
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Posts: 95
Thanks for taking the time to craft such a constructive and well-intentioned thread. We really do appreciate the passion of Diablo III players like yourself, and you have some very fair points and feedback, so /highfive for that!

And how an old game had systems inspired already to lead into multiple diversities and that game is full of skill trees and is immensively popular, so those telling me skill trees & stat points is outdated, tell that to a 12 year old game still surviving and is massively going on updates still. It's only outdated if your skill trees/stats don't actually offer any equality between power & variation.


While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.

We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.

You speak of rares or magics and you'll just get laughed at, all everyone talks about is Legendary this that, mempo skorn, manticore blah blah, I haven't played and read enough to know that's all is being mentioned mainly for items and things, which still isn't even fully viable on the new Monster Power...? And one last thing I know Rares are still somewhat useful just as cheap trash gear now until you find your first Legendary and such, but past that you never look back really


If you haven’t played in a few months, you might have missed out on some of the item improvements we’ve made along the way. In terms of patch 1.0.4, you might want to check out the blog we did regarding [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6923457/104_Legendary_Item_Improvements-8_14_2012"]Legendary Item Improvements[/url] as well as the various overall item improvements we made in [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7528695/"]patch 1.0.5[/url].

Regarding the death timer: The incrementing death timer is actually being removed in 1.0.7.


You say that there is more freedom with skills, but there isn't. Every class runs the same 1 or 2 builds because there is no other competing option. Most of the runes for most skills are never used, or used little enough that it doesn't matter. Example: Barbs are either WW, or rend... Just about every monk has the same exact build, almost no variation on anything... The DH, WIZ, and WD have slightly more build diversity, but nothing where it's even a respectable amount of diversity. Since the same skills and runes are used for basically every class, I'd say there are few real options. Until I have to bite my lip deciding which rune to go with, the system is broken and promotes little to no creativity in builds. Most of the runes are boring and uncreative, not actually enhancing anything in a practical way. And most of the skills are awful when compared to that 1 skill that simply trumps all others. Why would I use a lesser skill if it doesn't offer any real utility advantage, or damage? The skills and runes need to be updated so that they compete with on another.
Edited by Mango#1910 on 1/8/2013 6:39 PM PST
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The [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6968517/"]Paragon system[/url] was designed as a way to help address Magic Find/gear-swapping and the Magic Find stat in general along with offering an end-game character progression grind. The Diablo III end-game is fundamentally for people who enjoy making their character feel more powerful, investing time into slaughtering hordes of enemies, and hunting for loot. The Paragon system provides players with a predictable reward they can work towards. But for us, grinding alone is not enough. We like that there are still random item drops, you can change your build if you get bored, and it's all designed to complement a fluid combat system.



In terms of free additional content, we’d love to add more events similar to Infernal Machine to the Diablo universe, but whatever we add needs to fit within the scope of the game and needs to be weighed against other design costs. D3 isn’t an MMO, so it’s not going to receive regular content additions like an MMO (in terms of frequency and reward structures), but we’re definitely keeping our options open for the future, so don’t hesitate to let us know what interests you!



Pertaining to engaging in conversations with the players: we aim to do just that, and we’re dedicated to improving on this further. I for one am extremely active on our official social media channels (especially [url="https://twitter.com/Diablo"]Twitter[/url] and [url="http://www.facebook.com/Diablo"]Facebook[/url]), and have recently started branching out to other communities to try and connect a bit more there as well (including Reddit and [url="http://vaeflare.deviantart.com/"]DeviantArt[/url]). One of the things I think that it’s key to realize, however, is that while part of our job is indeed to be a presence on the forums and communicate with all of you, part of that job also entails stepping away from the forums so that we can gather feedback, communicate with the developers, attend meetings, moderate, draft up social media, write blogs: the whole shebang. The behind-the-scenes portion of our job isn’t easy to see, but hopefully the numerous improvements that have been made over the passing months shows that we’ve been listening and passing along feedback, and we plan to continue doing just that. :)


Okay fine I'll agree that it does complement a fluid combat system(Darn you :P), D3 does indeed have a very fluid combat system. I'm not too sure if that addressed the magic-find gear swapping but I suppose it did to a certain extent and add in some growth of character development in. But to repeatedly do a task just to gain these levels and bonuses (such as grinding) isn't too appealing to me. I've played enough grinds in my lifetime to know when a game is headed down the hole by extending its product life simply by extending a repetition, especially without variance. I would love the system if there were a lot more ways to accumulate EXP rather than just slaughter things mindlessly and repeatedly and hope that such additions will come within the year, here's hoping still(since August :) ).

Alright I understand that Diablo 3 isn't an MMO... at least... I think I do, but with the Auction House and even confirmation from a previous CM (Bashiok) that drops did revolve around the Auction House it did feel like an MMO restricted to 4 player dungeon runs.

Okay but fine it's not an MMO it's an ARPG (not a hack and slash in my books), although content additions won't be as much as an MMO,

I sincerely hope you and the development team at least take into consideration of the Azmodan's Siege Castle idea, I've already explained its benefits and its target market and what it can do all with recycled assets. If not then... okay *shrug*, I'll be curious to see what you guys have up your sleeve. I'm not going to go raving around if they do decide to use the idea it'd just be a nice addition that I believe is consistent with Diablo 3's current systems. Just something one of your players thinks will help the game immensely.
EDIT: if you want to be even more thorough just make a poll and see how many people want it. I'm sure it'll be lots.


Regarding that last part I'm glad to hear you're socially active among the venues that most people check and see, but the forums here are equally as important, if not even more. It's quite disheartening to see these threads & many other things go without any response for pretty much half a month each time.

I know you all have to attend meetings conferences design shakedowns and whatnot, I'm not oblivious to that for sure, but it'd nice to get a check-in from you and the other CMs maybe once a week, daily is just asking too much. I've seen Blizzard's studio and HQ(pretty bold statement I guess), seen development teams and gone through development cycles, game design classes & studios and I know that job is extremely demanding from customers(i.e the players) and highly stressful with crazy crunch time and OT during certain phases of milestones and the like. But a simple drop-in weekly would be nice rather than silence for half a month to something else.

Maybe even just rumor debunking would be nice, or small tidbits of why the blog posts are delayed or something. Not asking for miracles or lies here just some communication.


I remember awhile ago when Gears of War 1 came out. Game was great, but eventually there was this idea that floated about called "horde" or "siege" mode where you had to hold out from innumerable monsters. It was an idea created by the players, and in a massive email spam effort was sent to the powers at be.

Guess what. It *actually* happened in GoW2. Coincidence? I think not. They listened to the players and to this day that was one of the best pieces of advice they ever took.

I cannot stress it enough KradisZ (and Vaeflare, since you are VERY active right now in this thread) that this is an idea worth looking into and pushing for.

As mentioned before, any idea to be implemented into the game has to be carefully considered if it actually fits the feel of Diablo and the direction they want to go with it... well... this kinda fits. It works (at least in theory).
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Vaeflare, i should add that while i do not agree with this particular decision, you are still one of my favorite blues. I would like to see more and very powerful legendary items added. ID all is a great idea, variable monster density would be... just awesome and the hellfire ring quest was a good idea. I do feel the game has improved since release by far.
Edited by atom428#1640 on 1/8/2013 6:45 PM PST
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