Diablo® III

PVP is easy to implement; here's how.

op fail tololol
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Posts: 41
Right precisely, however instead of a button persey, just an option in general. That's the point to what I'm suggesting, here.

PVP optional = everybody wins. How you go about it, is to make player damage 5% of normal damage. Everything else could stay precisely the same. It'd work out perfectly. And if it's too much~too little damage at the end of the day - tweak the flag's reduction.

If it's optional, NOBODY loses.

ShadowAegis gets it.
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Posts: 41
12/27/2012 05:47 PMPosted by ChangWu
op fail tololol


Trololol*

Well done, bud. You managed to misspell stupid, when calling me stupid.

*golf clap*
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You completely missed my point. Of course you can keep adjusting your proposal and making things more complicated whenever someone points out a flaw.

Thing is, you're just throwing random ideas around without much thought behind them and acting like implementing PvP is really simple when it's not nearly as simple as you made it out to be in the OP.


My friend, I revised the OP to solve grammar issues, and to make things clearer so people such as yourself, could understand the points better.

I didn't completely miss your point, as I've addressed it several times over, in multiple responses across this topic. Please read the thread, before accusing me of delivering a Jay Wilson solution to the feedback I'm getting.

Things are simply not more complicated. They're elaborated.

You say 100k dps translates into 625 dps, correct?

625 dps is both relative, and recognized by skills. Spectral blades, for example, does 165% weapon damage. Not including runes.

625 becomes 1031.25

Criticals landing multiple times in succession, at 25% chance, could turn that into 1500-2k dps as it were.

Now, lets factor in hydra(67% damage), venom magic weapon(5% damage/second), deep cuts(15% damage/second), blizzard, arcane orbit, explosive blast... I'd alpha for like 10k, with 6s cd on explosive - and be doing closer to 4-6k dps over the course of the fight. And if my target didn't fight back, I'd surely kill him, standing still, in a good 10 seconds.

10 seconds is quite some time, in pvp fighting games. Ever play borderlands? The duels in that last a total of .5 seconds. 1 shot kills. Dueling in d2, lasted a whopping 1.5 seconds, with latency.

I mean, yes, you're right. I moved on from your point. But I didn't, as well. I addressed it, several times over.

With 2k regen, 1k life on hit, 5% lifesteal and the two monk healing skills every 10 seconds, I'd still kill the monk with my 100k dps if he stood still healing himself.

But then, I'd also die, despite having more damage than him - because all I have is diamond skin. He'd need less dps, less tank and more running around, to kill me. Because skill matters, too.

Heh, I added in diamond skin... That's 7 skills. I wish. Take out arcane orbit, and add in a defensive skill - probably smart in pvp, eh'? The result is the same. It's significant enough damage to make a fight last 10-20 seconds, given the target is dynamic, not static.

Yeah.... you say you got my point, but you still don't. If you did, you wouldn't post another huge wall of text about life regen when that was just a random example and has little to do with the point I was making.

Either way I'm done here. I'm saying PvP is not as easy to implement as you think it is, if you refuse to believe that then that's fine, I really don't care either way.
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I agree with you but based on all the discussions, I think you have to agree that is not easy like you said!

Nice PVP system, but can you do the math with a skill that deals 800% weapon damage?
And what is your suggestion for a 7 second stun? (monk skill) I think this stun is overrated!
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Posts: 41

Yeah.... you say you got my point, but you still don't. If you did, you wouldn't post another huge wall of text about life regen when that was just a random example and has little to do with the point I was making.

Either way I'm done here. I'm saying PvP is not as easy to implement as you think it is, if you refuse to believe that then that's fine, I really don't care either way.


... Okay, so, your only argument is that, something you find difficult to accomplish, is by its very nature, difficult?

I can't argue nonsense. So, sure. I concede. Your point was made, and you refuse to actually construct an argument beyond this point. Since, my rebuttals apparently get ignored, by you.

The "wall of text" is called dialogue. And the context of which, is called proof of concept.

See this post here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415464925?page=1#5 for a response to your statement.

Good game.
Edited by Descyphal#1107 on 12/27/2012 9:34 PM PST
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Posts: 41
I agree with you but based on all the discussions, I think you have to agree that is not easy like you said!

Nice PVP system, but can you do the math with a skill that deals 800% weapon damage?
And what is your suggestion for a 7 second stun? (monk skill) I think this stun is overrated!


Easy is a relative term, guys. You keep using the word "easy" and you forget what it actually means.

For example, pole vaulting isn't easy, for me, for you, for your mother, etc etc. But for a pole vaulter, it's a cake walk.

I'm having a conversation right now with a buddy of mine who has a a bachelors in game design, as a matter of fact. Well, with 3 classes left. He says it's not a matter of how, regarding ease, but when. Any/all thngs *could* be done, regarding numbers, and options, and triggers... What matters is how long something could take. And having reviewed my thread, here - he suggests blizzard ought to implement this in some sort of beta/public testing, and allow this very system(without flaw in his eyes) to take effect immediately.

He was shown this thread by his boss, to which whom I do not know, and he didn't even notice it was my name until I brought it up to him on skype, just now.

To suggest it isn't "easy" to enable the same function DUELING will have, except all the time, and via an option - is to suggest they're incompetent at doing the very thing they've done before - at blizzcon, are doing now with dueling functions, and have done with monster triggers already.

onto your 800% weapon damage - this is still applied over time. And, is still only 5%. 800% weapon damage, lets say it deals 800k(given your base damage is 100k). this would be virtually the same as the 800k critical example given above.

in terms of reducing damage;
5% of 800k = 40k.
50% of that = 20k
75% of that = 5k.

Result: 800% weapon damage at 100k total damage = 800k damage reduced to 5k through this system. If the target has 30k hp, this skill alone deals 16.66 percent of your targets health. Quite the nice finisher(1 hit kills in pvp suck, and this method solves them.)

Lets look at the barbs 2000% damage skill, for example.

100k dps * 20.

on paper, it deals 2,000,000 damage over 8 seconds, or, 250k/second(250% weapon damage per second)

2m*.05 = 100k
*.50(50% armor) = 50k
*.25(75% resists) = 12.5k.

The earthquake skill, over 8 seconds, deals 12.5k damage.

This is the highest damage skill in the game. Let's assume I took ALL of this damage at the same time, in 1 second.

With 30k HP, and NO defensive skills, just 75% resists and 50% armor, I'd have 17.5k health remaining.

Again, a good finisher, or opener, but for all of you suggesting DPS would ##!%!@@# - the highest damage skill in the game wouldn't take half of my health, if it were applied from start to finish, instantly. This would indicate that, you clearly cannot 1hit kill someone, even with ridiculous dps. The barb would in fact require somewhere in the ballpark of 250k dps and a target to not move, for the full duration of the earthquake(8 seconds) in order to kill them in 1 shot. The target would also need to have 30-35k hp max, and be afk.

This means that even with a 7 second stun from a monk, the best skill in the game at 200k dps and a kitten, I'd still live having only 30k hp, 50% armor, and 75% resists.

Please use your brains, and understand that this is a SIMPLE method.

PvP damage reduced by 95%, making it effectively 5% of your DPS. It's enough DPS to kill someone with max liferegen, and you don't need super high dps to do it - affordable DPS is 50k. 50k dps could easily beat someone with 2500 life regen. It might take a while, but that's the point to 2500 life regen, isn't it? pvp isn't supposed to be 2 shot kills, huh?

Lifesteal won't be like it was in D2, where you shoot someone and regen without even dealing damage, and, we WILL NOT see people lifesteal tanking in pvp. Life on hit, MAYBE. But even then - STUNS AND SLOWS make this win. A barb might frenzy another barb... To which, one of the barbs will stun the other and the fight will be over. A barb might use Sky Splitter, and stunlock the other barb. Might also use Lidless Wall and ignore damage for 1.5 seconds. This is PVP. You CAN win, if you're not the best on paper in the fight. Underdog, as it were.

You MIGHT lose. If you are. Skill determines a winner regardless of a clear victor on paper. Building for pvp = skill in an ARPG.

Blizz, enough is enough. Bring it in.
Edited by Descyphal#1107 on 12/27/2012 9:06 PM PST
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WoW....well written post! I think that what is suggested here is a HUGE step in the right direction - even if only one suggestions gets implemented. The PTR, should yield some crediable data, IF the PvP development PROCESS is based on what is realized, through monitoring what evolutions the game produces and their mindset is that in order for a game to grow, the players side is interesting, fair, and EXCITING!!!!

PvP was once a great experience for me - in another, extinct game - and I had encounters that lasted up to over an hour! The reason for this was because the PvP of the past was structured very similar to Descyphal's analysis.

I am ready on my side of this game to enjoy some of what I lost. Keeping this new content as simple as can be had, YET the rewards that are available support the desire to fight, then I will to take a break from what D3 content has been since May 2012, and enjoy another aspect where I battle w/other PCs instead of NPCs!

Git 'dere Blizzard....plz?
Edited by Nilrem#1347 on 1/18/2013 11:24 AM PST
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dont change anything. just white item duel if you want.
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I ran in a three sided duel with my DH, another DH, and a Barb. All of us were lvl60. The game was MP10 - Hell difficulty. I had glimmers of what I wanted to experience enough times to warrant a post here about it. I am wanting to try again, but this time run MP? - Inferno difficulty....BTW we all had similar Paragon experience - like that made any difference.

I got beat up, he got beatup, one encounter I watched the other two players kill each other just as I was about to cart-wheel through the foree using Trail of Cinders rune.

I realized that I should try out different skill setups because the encounters are NOT the same as far has how the fight evolves when battling an NPC. That mind-set kept me from becoming frustrated or bored becuz w/each new template, the combat would be a different scenario/challenge.

(Shades of my old BH days in that previously mentioned, extinct, MMO.....)

It's l00kin' g00d?
Edited by Nilrem#1347 on 1/18/2013 5:04 PM PST
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Posts: 5,087
I agree that their should be an option not only to control how much damage is being done in pvp, but also in creating teams so we can have 1v1, 2v2, 1v3.
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Healing is the bane of combat ... cant balance crap when u got all this healing .. otherwise .. 5% could work

Paralyzation is retarded in PvP
Critical hits are a bad idea in PvP
100% damage reduction skills are retarded in PvP

The foundations of this game have to be thrown out .. prolly why Jay quit.
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Correct me if i am wrong, but lets say an average geared monk reaches(even momentarily) 200k dps with Breath of Heaven and Blinding Flash, which is quite easy, Seven Sided Strike deals 2310% weapon dmg in 7 strikes. So :
200.000*23.1=4.620.000 dmg
so it is 4.620.000 / 7 = 660.000 dmg per normal hit
with 400% crit dmg which is common, a critical hit from SSS is 660.000*4=2.640.000 dmg
so at around 40-45% crit chance will mean that probably will be getting 4 normal hit and 3 crits and that is 4*660.000 + 3*2.640.000 = 10.560.000 during a full SSS pre-mitigation and reduction.
With 50 armor reduction this gets 10.560.000*0.5 = 5.280.000
With 75% resist this becomes 5.280.000*0.25 = 1.320.000
with 95% reduction we get 1.320.000*0.05 = 66.000 dmg during a full SSS
It's allready an overkill but add to that 48% more dmg taken from Mantra of Conviction : Overawe and thats 97680dmg
So basically an average geared monk can do 97680 dmg during around 3 secs even with 95% dmg reduction while being immune.
Plz someone correct me if i am wrong couse that seems OP!!
Edited by Nevermore#1805 on 2/4/2013 1:43 AM PST
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PVP damage is fine. If I want to watch paint dry, I can go to ubers.
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Correct me if i am wrong, but lets say an average geared monk reaches(even momentarily) 200k dps with Breath of Heaven and Blinding Flash, which is quite easy, Seven Sided Strike deals 2310% weapon dmg in 7 strikes. So :
200.000*23.1=4.620.000 dmg
so it is 4.620.000 / 7 = 660.000 dmg per normal hit
with 400% crit dmg which is common, a critical hit from SSS is 660.000*4=2.640.000 dmg
so at around 40-45% crit chance will mean that probably will be getting 4 normal hit and 3 crits and that is 4*660.000 + 3*2.640.000 = 10.560.000 during a full SSS pre-mitigation and reduction.
With 50 armor reduction this gets 10.560.000*0.5 = 5.280.000
With 75% resist this becomes 5.280.000*0.25 = 1.320.000
with 95% reduction we get 1.320.000*0.05 = 66.000 dmg during a full SSS
It's allready an overkill but add to that 48% more dmg taken from Mantra of Conviction : Overawe and thats 97680dmg
So basically an average geared monk can do 97680 dmg during around 3 secs even with 95% dmg reduction while being immune.
Plz someone correct me if i am wrong couse that seems OP!!


Only children follow such a build in Pro PVP. This is nothing but a sacrificial build; An all or nothing nuking move that can easily be countered by experienced players.

If you've played in the PTR, SSS misses a lot against good monks, barbs, and dh's. Not to mention the cool down it entails after execution. It is also very easy to time damage reduction/immunity skills while this skill is being cast.
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Okay so, those of us wanting pvp, this is all blizz needs to do;In the options menu, beside *Enable monster power selection* enter an option to 'Enable PvP level ranges.'****Notes****Now, how to implement PvP:Make ALL DAMAGE DEALT do 5% of normal damage, to players. *(This means, if you do 100k dps, you're doing 5k dps. They'll mitigate armor, then resistances, then playerskills. Respectively. Assuming the average dps is 100k, pvp dps is 5k. 50% of that is 2.5k. 75% of that is 625 dps. If you're using skills, like hydra, or frenzy, you're hitting for 4-6 times per second, in effect. You'd easily do over 2500 dps to someone, given the stats mentioned. Assuming your build was completely offensive. You'd also likely die in the same amount of time you'd kill someone of equal strength or greater. Mind, this method is designed to give you a fighting chance, if you're fighting someone with 100k dps, and you have 50k dps, you will do 2.5k base to their 5k base. If you have life on hit(which they won't have as much as a result of having more dps, you'll potentially beat them.)


This is how far I made it in your post. I tried to read it but this first part is just bad so I stoped. I didn't read on if you actually have tested PvP on the PTR yet. I am assuming you haven't. I will say though.

WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER STAT IN PVP TO FURTHER REDUCE DAMAGE!!!

Hope that point got across. I have had encounteres last serveral minutes already. What you want is PvP to be bad like WoW arena is and have a stat like Resilence ruin Diablo. Well I say NO!!.

Diablo PvP is about fast action and utilizing mobility with skills. If the encounter last longer then 2mins then there is something wrong. Its about getting multiple kills in 2mins not making it so the fight is dragged out forever in some boring manner. There are skills in place to be used to make PvP long enough and if People gear correctly they wont die. What you propose is making it impossible to kill someone and a boring toe to toe encounter. Terrible. Sorry its early and I am on my first cup of coffee but this is just a bad idea.

I will just stop with that PvP is unique in Diablo let it stay that way and not try and make it like other games.
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91 Undead Monk
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Posts: 324
I for one agree wholeheartedly with the general thrust of the OP's post.
I like the idea of pvp Events too. I hadn't even thought of that.

It would seem too many people completely disregard that all of the suggestions OP made are exactly that - suggestions. It's not a dissertation or a thesis. It's all about constructive think tanking to help implement a viable pvp system that doesn't suck nuts.

Why not simply modify incoming damage? It's a perfectly sane idea.

Why not have pvp flagged characters out and about in the world rather than in an arena?

I think it works well as a base system structure. I actually think elements of this will make it into live eventually.
Edited by Obliteron#1235 on 2/4/2013 7:30 AM PST
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02/04/2013 07:27 AMPosted by Undeadmonk
Why not simply modify incoming damage? It's a perfectly sane idea.


Incoming damage is already modified recently on PTR. All chars get the 30% dmg mitigation for being melee that barbs,monks got. and barbs and monks now have 35%. Pretty much whats already in this game is enough damage reduction or it will be long boring fights and involve no strats and no gear.
Edited by Abomb247#1301 on 2/4/2013 7:33 AM PST
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Or have blizzard make PVP only gear that you have no control of, and that gear makes everyone even armor and attribute wise. Everything after that will be skill based, so no one would have the right to !@#$% about how over powered one person is over another. Was the only good thing to come out of Guild Wars 2 sPVP.
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