Diablo® III

1.0.7. - HUGE nerf to monks, even further kill diversit

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01/16/2013 11:05 AMPosted by ARÔMÊZ
I have read the OP and a few of the replies, I am a monk player and I do not understand what you are talking about. Please explain to me in layman's terms so I can understand what you guys and gals are talking about.

Casting Blinding Flash before Sweeping Wind buffed SW damage even after BF wears off. Huge majority of Monks were using this. Some went extreme, meaning they had gear set for BF buffing and set for SW buffing and they were swapping them. Some manually, some were using scripts.

Now, like with MF gear, instead of just fixing item swapping exploit by resetting the skill buffs on gear change, Blizzard decided to nerf Sweeping Wind and sell it as buff to Monks.

Results:
lower dmg and survivability (through LS) when using SW and BF
Blinding Flash is now pretty much useless
gear swapping stays for other potential controversies in the future

Some Monks, me included, were hoping Blizzard would fix gear swapping long ago, because we knew, it would be either that or Sweeping Wind/Blinding Flash combo nerf.

Now we lost BF and got spenders buffs, but they could end up like Trail of Cinders.

Anyway, one less skill for Monks to think about ever again and no change in absolute lack of offensive passives department.


First of all I have not played on the PTR yet. I have just checked the PTR patch notes and I see a buff in the damage to SW. I see no nerf to BF, are you saying that BF will not do anything at all for a monk. Blizz has changed how it works. Maybe only allowing it to reduces damage by 10%.

That still does not clear up what is going on here.
Monks will always suck. Somebody call the WAHHHHMBULANCE!
@OP

i use snapshot, so what?
by what you were trying to say, SW fix would have a HUGE HUGE HUGE nerf on me.
do you see me crying out loud? haha, no!!!

actually i like the fix and a huge buff on other skills.
Edited by SuperJJ#1973 on 1/16/2013 4:03 PM PST
01/16/2013 11:58 AMPosted by panic666
I think you're just mad because you got your !@# kicked in PVP all day:D


01/16/2013 12:56 PMPosted by LordWorm
Suck it up buttercup.

Shh Dont Hurt his Felling He might Report , ( knowing its True ) ...!!
only one word : disappointed
@OP

why cant you do uber with just 10% eDPS lost? so 2mill eDPS will become 1.8mill, what is the problem? maybe you can remove blinding flash and put one of those buffed bomb skill instead?

with only 10% dps lost for a so called HUGE nerf, and you had to cry out loud. have you consider the HUGE buff with the other skills we get? 10% is like nuthing.


why are you even chiming in here at all? It's hoopleheads like you that ABUSED the snapshot by GEAR SWAPPING then telling everyone on the forums how pro you are. Mongoloids like you are the reason why we are getting this nerf. All your attention you drew to Monks with your "mp10 Uber carries 1 mil" or "30k DPS monk mp10 uber clear" threads is why we are even having this discussion.
you have a problem with me? lets go settle it in PTR now.

go qq more with OP hahaha. you noob !@# blaming on me haha, like im the first to use snapshot.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592402068?page=1

read that noob !@# OP. 1.3% less eDPS if you use Deadly Reach instead of blinding flash.
@OP

why cant you do uber with just 10% eDPS lost? so 2mill eDPS will become 1.8mill, what is the problem? maybe you can remove blinding flash and put one of those buffed bomb skill instead?

with only 10% dps lost for a so called HUGE nerf, and you had to cry out loud. have you consider the HUGE buff with the other skills we get? 10% is like nuthing.


why are you even chiming in here at all? It's hoopleheads like you that ABUSED the snapshot by GEAR SWAPPING then telling everyone on the forums how pro you are. Mongoloids like you are the reason why we are getting this nerf. All your attention you drew to Monks with your "mp10 Uber carries 1 mil" or "30k DPS monk mp10 uber clear" threads is why we are even having this discussion.


To be completely honest, I think anyone who used it and DIDN'T talk on the forums about it should have their character deleted.

You HAD to know it was an abusive mechanic... you were getting benefits of things without the limitations normally imposed upon having them. You really didn't think that was an exploit? That's practically the textbook definition of exploit... just because it's 'always been there' or 'it works that way for everything' doesn't mean it isn't exploitative. It just means that it's a low priority to fix since the abusive potential for MOST classes is low. I mean I can get 60 seconds of increased dps on sentry, or a wizard can get 5 minutes of a TINY dps increase on a familiar, etc... but a Monk can get an infinite duration dps increase on a major dps ability.

Basically Blizzard didn't fix it because they felt it wasn't worth the effort until someone discovered a method to make use of it to get a huge dps boost when it really mattered. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't exploiting before then, it just means that the exploit didn't make a DIFFERENCE until then. When you discover something like that the best thing you CAN do is submit a bug report - the second best thing to do is to make such a big deal that it becomes important to fix. The worst thing you can do is keep completely silent - and doing that is detrimental to the game as a whole. Congrats - you're a part of the problem.
@OP: I've read your whole post so don't flame me for not responding how you like. For future posts I would suggest a different route with how you deal with people who have different opinions than your own. From what I gathered in this post if anyone said something against your opinion you just called them a name or said their opinion was invalid because they don't main a monk. At the start of the post Deus was trying to nicely offer his opinion and all you did is call him names and tell him he was wrong and saying you already proved your point, which if he didn't get you could have nicely tried to re-clarify why you though you were right.

As for the buff/nerf. I have not tried the PTR so i'm not sure but I never used the snapshot to begin with. I read about it a while ago but felt it would be something to get removed so I never relied on it. Yes it stinks that you relied on it and it was removed... guess you need to try and find a new setup that better suits you or just deal with the loss in DPS. The monk does seem to be lacking compared to the other classes (ignoring witch doctors since i dont like how they play and never check the updates on them). But hopefully in future patches there will be more overall buffs.
Ok to AdHoc and Deus (Deus don't seem to be around anymore) and all those who are wondering and arguing exactly how and why Fitl buffs your dps by 50-100% and not just 30%. I've done some tests and calculations and have discovered that Fitl does not just buff 30% of your weapon damage but also ninja buffs the crit damage on your weapons by 30% (this does not show in your stats screen however).

Below is the formula I use to work out dps, it is correct up to 95-99% of the displayed dps value in game. First some abbreviations used:

WDMIN - average min weapon damage
WDMAX - average max weapon damage
WD - average weapon damage ie. (WDMIN + WDMAX)/2
BD - base damage with no weapons equiped (is around 120)
PS - (primary stat)/100 (dex/str/int depending on the class)
CC - (crit chance)/100
CD - (crit damage)/100
WCD - (weapon crit damage)/100 (CD from weapons and gems only)
OCD - (other crit damage)/100 (CD from the base 50% plus from amulets, gloves etc.)
AS - attack speed

and the formula:

DPS = (WD+BD)*AS*(1+DX)*[(1-CC)+(1+CD)*CC]

and with Fitl is either

DPS = 1.3*(WD+BD)*AS*(1+DX)*[(1-CC)+(1+1.3*WCD+OCD)*CC]

And to Adhoc, I agree that 1.07 is a nerf to the snapshot SW but you are slightly over reacting a bit. Based on your calculations on page 10, the nerf to total SW damage output should only decrease by ~20% (this is including the 3s Blinding Flash nuke time). If we include the 15% buff from BOH then the nerf becomes even less, also considering the huge damage buff to other skills (like Wave of Light) this 20% nerf should no longer be that significant.

Also do you really need the Fitl buff on all the time? I mean killing general mobs shouldn't take you more than just a few seconds, elites slightly longer but with your dps even on high MP it shouldn't take you more than just 2-3 Blinding flash nukes.

One thing I strongly agree with is the LPSS and the healing from BOH are way too little to be really effective, we will need more spirit regen (giving a base 1.00 spirit regen will be very nice) and those two mantras, healing and retribution are what seriously need some buff/changes.


why are you even chiming in here at all? It's hoopleheads like you that ABUSED the snapshot by GEAR SWAPPING then telling everyone on the forums how pro you are. Mongoloids like you are the reason why we are getting this nerf. All your attention you drew to Monks with your "mp10 Uber carries 1 mil" or "30k DPS monk mp10 uber clear" threads is why we are even having this discussion.


To be completely honest, I think anyone who used it and DIDN'T talk on the forums about it should have their character deleted.

You HAD to know it was an abusive mechanic... you were getting benefits of things without the limitations normally imposed upon having them. You really didn't think that was an exploit? That's practically the textbook definition of exploit... just because it's 'always been there' or 'it works that way for everything' doesn't mean it isn't exploitative. It just means that it's a low priority to fix since the abusive potential for MOST classes is low. I mean I can get 60 seconds of increased dps on sentry, or a wizard can get 5 minutes of a TINY dps increase on a familiar, etc... but a Monk can get an infinite duration dps increase on a major dps ability.

Basically Blizzard didn't fix it because they felt it wasn't worth the effort until someone discovered a method to make use of it to get a huge dps boost when it really mattered. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't exploiting before then, it just means that the exploit didn't make a DIFFERENCE until then. When you discover something like that the best thing you CAN do is submit a bug report - the second best thing to do is to make such a big deal that it becomes important to fix. The worst thing you can do is keep completely silent - and doing that is detrimental to the game as a whole. Congrats - you're a part of the problem.


What about those monks who DIDN'T GEAR SWAP and managed to farm mp10 ubers w/out issue? I will say it again , clearly so it can sink in...

USING BF/BOH TO BUFF SW DMG IS ACCEPTED NORMAL GAME MECHANICS!!

SNAPSHOTTING THEN GEAR SWAPPING IS THE EXPLOIT!!

-THOSE THAT ABUSED THE GEAR SWAPPING AND RAN OFF MAKING THREADS YAPPING ABOUT IT AND CHARGING FOR UBER CARRIES USING THIS EXPLOIT ARE DIRECTLY TO BLAME.
Is OP still crying about not being able to use exploits to his advantage anymore? I hope not. I really hope it doesn't take 21 pages of a thread to understand that the mechanic you were using was not working as intended.

Shame on you, OP. Shame for playing monk in a way that makes other legitimate monks look bad. You abuse exploits then cry about them being fixed. Snapshotting is NOT a legitimate game mechanic, just as gear swapping.
Edited by FadeToBlack#1176 on 1/16/2013 5:28 PM PST
you have a problem with me? lets go settle it in PTR now.

go qq more with OP hahaha. you noob !@# blaming on me haha, like im the first to use snapshot.


yes because clearly a balanced duel within the current pay to win d3 model is the way to evenly settle an issue.
Edited by Technoviking#1999 on 1/16/2013 5:28 PM PST
@Technoviking

that right, talk big, once get called out, meow. plz....

guess what, that will be the way to go. once 1.07 go live, you wont be able to trash talk in forum anymore without getting called out for a PK!!! haha.
I think that a lot of responders are missing the OP point which is not to say that Blizzard shouldn't have fixed anything but that in fact the way that Blizzard tried to fix it actually made things worse. A "fix" and "buffs" shouldn't overall drop the DPS of even the players who play legitimately. Personally though, it is difficult for me to understand either side of this 'debate' since I don't use the AH and haven't yet found uber gear for my monk... I wish I could though, I'd love to have hadoukens!
ive been playing monks for a long time. It is sad that monks need an exploit to be competitive.
Creators of this game wants to give up diversity by buffing shiet skills. Who the f uses inner santc and mystic ally. MoR - wtf totally flawed. Redesign that mantra please. The more dex/dodge we have the more that skill becomes obsolete. There will be people that will argue well you will get hit eventually... but will you use that mantra for the extra throne/reflect damage? definitely not. It will be nice if it reflects pre damage reduction numbers instead. So that brings us to the more mitigation of the skill the more crappier the mantra.

Tempest rush damage increase is good and sweeping wind damage is good for those who wanna paragon lvl but thats about it. Dashing good for dualing.
@Technoviking

that right, talk big, once get called out, meow. plz....

guess what, that will be the way to go. once 1.07 go live, you wont be able to trash talk in forum anymore without getting called out for a PK!!! haha.


i dont trash talk--i speak the truth. next time don't go showboating around charging people for mp10 uber carries using gear swap exploit. You directly impacted the rest of monks by using and ADVERTISING this exploit. I rather light myself on fire than duel anyone on the broken PTR. One night of 1 shots was good enough for me. If a PTR is your litmus test then you are deranged and delusional--you can google those two words if you lack the educational backround needed to comprehend words with over 2 syllables.
Yeah... Monks were nerfed so bad that they're getting owned in pvp duel.
Now seriously, stop complaining. Monks were buffed a lot.


That's the whole point, monks got NERFED not BUFFED. Things are not as simple as they seem, you can't just read patch notes and assume from that.
For anyone that didn't use the exploit it was a buff. Stop being dumb.
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