Diablo® III

What D2 had that D3 does not.

"The biggest difference between D2 and D3 is what D3 has and D2 doesn't. The AHs and a RNG made for it."

Almost. D2 was a game in which a 3rd party market formed around, because it was a great game

D3 is a game that BLizz formed around the RMAH. And isnt so great

In the greedy rush to make a "secure, non 3rd party" action house, they left out the great game part.
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How about a community that didn't gripe and whine about it every five minutes?

Yes, the game has it's flaws, all games do, but for !@#$sakes, can we give it a bit of a rest already?

Diablo 2 had many of the same problems that diablo 3 currently has, the difference is that people accepted them, offered a bit of constructive criticism, maybe even some theorycrafting and new ideas. That was it.

The game was the way it was, and people knew that. Get over yourselves already and just play the game the way it is, sweeping changes won't come overnight, and %^-*!ing about it doesn't make it better.
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I´m sick of people quoting d3 as diversified, just because you have billions of possibilities does not make them viable, as people said in this thread and others, we are reduced to 1 (maybe 2) "builds" in D3.

Here is a list of some pvp builds per characters, from what i remember out of 7 years of dueling (meaning there might be more now).

Sorc:

Blizz
Orb
Fireball
Meteorb
Lightning
Nova
Black widow with enchanted weapon
Melee with enchanted and some aura items

Necro (as someone mentioned)

Bone/curse/summon
Poison nova
Poison dagger
a mix of all.

Paladin:

Hammer
Foh
Charger
Smite
Auradin
v/t
Charger/hammer
zealer

Amazon:

Bowa
Java
Hybrid ( yeah you miss that word, i would like to emphasize the varieties of possible hybrid builds due to the skill and stats attribution system :p)
FC (just kidding)

Druid:

Wolf pure dps
wolf rabbies
bear dps
bear fireclaw
wind druid
firedruid (yeah it did exist and could be nice if played correctly)
Wolf/armageddon

Assassin:

Light trap
Fire trap
Light trap / kicker
Fire trap / kicker
Light trap / wwsin
Fire trap / wwsin

(not to mention the skills needed to own in either of these builds)

Barbarian:

WW
Zerk
Shout
Frenzy
Throw weapon

The idea i´m trying to convey in case you had not noticed isn´t that diablo 2 had more builds than d3 has at the moment, i just want to point out the fact that the builds mentionned in this post were equally viable ones which is not the case in d3 and a reason why you only come across a few builds only. ( all the builds i´ve mentioned, apart from FoH were also viable in PvM ).

In addition to that, as the OP stated, all the builds i have mentioned had varieties not only in equipment (noobs stating that all characters had shako eni hoto, please avoid posting) which had an impact on FHR rate, IAS rate, FCR rate, FBR rate, FRW rate.

Moreover, it would almost be pointless to add that with the skill points attribution, no characters were exactly the same, if you wanted to spend a point in something useless and use it in PvP or PvM, you were free to, not like in this game where dull copies sit next to each other (oh you have rare gloves? tell me about the stats of these, regardless of your class).

Finally, the stats attribution system which i must admit was a bit of a pain for noobs, gave us possibilities build wise (not like people mention, all in vita and the rest as required), I mean if you wanted to put dexterity in your character, in order to get some decent block with a shield which was not supposed to (Spirit versus Stormshield for example)but on the other hand gave you other advantages (such as FHR, FCR and resists) well you were able to, and that made you unique, which was truly the best feeling you could have.

Allright, some of you will argue that it is pre extention and therefore we only have 5 classes, while this is true it isn´t justified, as someone said they didn´t start from scratch and although it is a different team (for the most part) and their view on this game differ, it is nonetheless a fact that we stand here 10 years later with only 5 characters and not 7.

If anyone at blizzard will read this, keep in mind that i am not a hater, i´m just stating facts and just wish d3 to be as good as d2 was.

And yes, i've played enough D3 to make my opinion, i´m just not a US player.

TLDR : screw you and read you lazy bastard, It´s important!!
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I'm sorry but Diablo 3 is the new installment of this series and probably the best as far as customizing your character in a true role playing way. You can switch all of your skills on the fly. Stick with something original and not a MP10 cookie cutter you had to buy and maybe you'll know what I"m saying. 2 was more addictive partially because you had to start all over to try new builds all of the time, and farming was the whole game, really just farming a few areas actually. 0Now with the robot boss runs and stuff- well, that aspect of the game is just not fun to me. I like a challenge, I gave up on trying to get a good inna's chest and pants with top emeralds. Farming in Diablo 3 is fun just because of the idea that you could, maybe, just maybe luck out and get some crazy item. All 3 games are about items, but this game almost makes farming optional which works for everyone, because we all have the option of farming endlessly or just saying screw it. Like me- I haven't spent a dime. I've got to try out all of the legendaries I've wanted- obviously not max rolls- with no more than 1.3 mil in stash at a time. I've tried countless combinations of builds- I never dual wielded until after I beat Inferno. Now I'm back to using a diabo for fun because it looks cool. My fire monk combines aspects of my favorite two D2 classes, the Assassin and the Druid.
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yea i remember when playing d2 the currency wasnt gold, it was stone of jordans lmao so bad
Edited by IceTea#1873 on 1/14/2013 12:30 PM PST
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Posts: 75
I notice that most of these people that keep getting defensive on D2>D3 things haven't even played a lot of D3... Let alone get to Inferno and actually PLAY.
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Posts: 75
01/14/2013 12:30 PMPosted by IceTea
yea i remember when playing d2 the currency wasnt gold, it was stone of jordans lmao so bad
Correction, currency was Runes.
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01/14/2013 12:34 PMPosted by Battleraiser
I notice that most of these people that keep getting defensive on D2>D3 things haven't even played a lot of D3... Let alone get to Inferno and actually PLAY.


How does playing the same exact story/levels/maps over and over again increase someones knowledge of this game?

It is the SAME EXACT thing over with higher numbers. No originality, just higher numbers to force you to buy from RMAH

I think it is just something people who have logged 500+ hours into this pile of junk do to find justification and superiority when they have obviously wasted alot of their lives.
Edited by Rosalinda#1133 on 1/14/2013 12:43 PM PST
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01/13/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Why
even in PvP you could see a naked bone necro own geared players.


I fail to see how this is BETTER. Diablo is a loot-finding franchise. The entire lure to play is that when you kill monsters, you get treasure. No naked player should be able to kill another naked player. Hmmm...I should say no naked toon...I have no idea which among you play naked, nor do I think I want to know...

01/13/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Why
D2 also had caps, IAS cap,FCR cap, FHR cap. So with caps you had to think about what item combinations should I choose to give me X amount of fhr,fcr and ias and so forth. Creating unique item combinations in D2, adding more customization.


You're right that caps force people to make choices, as once you hit a cap on a certain stat, you no longer need to find gear to focus on increasing that stat...however the problem with having more caps is that it's easier to meet them. Meaning, everyone who finds the best gear they need will hit ALL those caps, then instead of seeing two characters with vastly different stats emphasized, you're just comparing two toons with maxed out stat sheets. How do you determine which one's the better one then?

Also in D2 you had rune words which worked out good. High runes were hard to find, but if you found enough low runs you could fuse them together creating a higher rune, so you always felt 1 step closer to getting some of the best gear in game.


Runes and runewords were added to D2 in LOD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_II:_Lord_of_Destruction

And while I agree that runewords were a cool thing (and I'd love to see D3 implement it somehow), there was literally no use experimenting with rune combos either socketing them into gear OR transmuting them. You NEED to find a rune guide online that shows you the hierarchy of runes in order to determine which you need to get the highest grade...and even then, getting the highest grade was insanely hard.

So while it seems really easy, it wasn't. I wouldn't mind if runes or symbol stones of some kind were added to D3, and a serious amount of collecting and farming was involved through Covetous Shen to make high grade runes, I'm all for that. But I want the hierarchy to be in-game as opposed to being so cryptic that I need other players to tell me how to do it.

01/13/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Why
And with gold losing its value all the time, with little amount of gold sinks and tons of gold bots items become more expensive to the point where it would take you 2 years to grind enough gold for the items you want, and by the time you grind for the gold the item is all ready gone.


This is really a matter of perspective. The only character I buy items for is my Wizard, and it's just to keep up with friends who use the AH. None of my other characters have on AH gear, and yeah, it may take forever, but that's the whole point of the game. It should take a long time to strengthen your characters to handle endgame content. People can shorten that time considerably by using the Auction House, but you're really only taking away from how long you have to play it.
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01/13/2013 07:57 PMPosted by Lion
I'll take a remastered Diablo 2 any day over this game.


People should really not post this the very same day they last logged in to Diablo 3...

It really hurts their argument.
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What D2 had that D3 does not?
The list is too long. About everything that did the franchise so fun, and my bad, D3 instead completely missed or lacked. Practically missed all the essential.

So it's easiest to say what D3 have that D2 didn't had:

1. Graphic, because D2 is now too old, (but anyway D3 appear too blur, colorized and cartooned for this franchise to me).
2. Shared stash between the characters, it is a nice add for sure.
3. Auto gold pickup (but in D2, gold was almost useless, so..).
4. Goblins, another nice funny add.
5. Auction House (that, to me, completely ruined the social aspect and the same meaning of grinding. A paradox for this kind of game).

That's it.

Everything else lack or is just a bad interpretation of the nice diablo 2 things and ideas.
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"They refuse to embrace anything new because of their blind hatred for change"

I laughed at the contradiction.

The thing is, we don´t mind changing a broken system, we just don´t understand why anyone would want to change something which is working perfectly fine just for the sake of changing it.

I dare you to find any other forum where there are so many people asking for change.

I´d understand if it was a minority but as a matter of fact it is not.
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Posted by Lion
I'll take a remastered Diablo 2 any day over this game.

People should really not post this the very same day they last logged in to Diablo 3...

It really hurts their argument.


Hhahahahhaha, it's funny because it's still available.
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I think the biggest difference between D2 and D3 is that D3 is missing David Brevik, Matt Uelmen and Blizzard North.
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01/13/2013 07:27 PMPosted by TheSaint
go to D2 as it was the 1st 8 months and see how it really was. D2 is around 10+ years . this game was patched to death and big DLC


Check the amount of patches D2 got bub. D3 already put in more then half of what D2 ever got.


and yet its still missing 70% of the content that D2 has ... funny.
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If you learn what sells well on the AH you could use the gold AH to make an insane amount of gold. I am still trying to get more information on that subject.

What is the point in a gear hunt game if the game has such a small challenge where gear is not important at all. IMO such a game should've given players everything that the gear gives you then make the gear all for show, without any stats or affixes on the gear at all.
Edited by ShadowAegis#1537 on 1/14/2013 3:05 PM PST
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Someone please explain to me why they "nerfed" our ability (from D2) to use our brains and free will to create/select games to play in. As in games with names. As in, the objective is clear before you enter the game. Now that we'll have monster power in public games, public gaming should improve right?

Wrong

Say you join an Act 3 game at MP6 assuming they're farming the keywarden, but in reality they're just doing a farming run. There's no way to tell, because the only information you have is the quest. Point is, virtually nobody plays quests anymore, they simply play at a quest level that gives them access to the waypoints they need for their particular objective. This creates a mess in-game, with people going willy-nilly or just quitting because the party isn't doing what they thought they'd do.

If you support the idea that we need a game lobby, PLEASE visit and bump my thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593621490?page=1
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01/13/2013 07:20 PMPosted by Harsh
I like reading d2 vs d3 threads. Because maybe there is hope that d3 will rekindle some of that d2.


+1 same here
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100 Pandaren Monk
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01/14/2013 02:44 PMPosted by Fingerling
I think the biggest difference between D2 and D3 is that D3 is missing David Brevik, Matt Uelmen and Blizzard North.


this....... times 1000

Plenty of arguments can be made over gameplay options, and character building ect.... and to be honest i do like the freedom that D2 allowed, but D3s gameplay doesnt really bother me so much, as i am enjoying it a fair amount atm..

but in the end, the absolute biggest offenders are

-horrific, campy, dialogue
- entirely forgettable soundtrack
- Over all lack of grimness / macabre
- Story more so with atmosphere and setting (see below)

Diablo 2 was very ambient, there were plenty of undertones that told the story of the game without forcing atrocious dialogue exchanges and set pieces down the players throat.

It maintained its grizzly and mature atmosphere while letting the player experience the game, conveying only the most minimal story line information through lore excerpts, and small, well voiced exchanges of small bits of information from the various npcs, piecing together a bigger picture, without all the nonsense that is present in D3 (diablo and azmodan's constant reminders are one such example). Its all literally shoved in the players face, and executed so, so poorly.

The game just over all doesnt really take the player seriously... and as a result just completely and utterly looses feeling that was received from diablo 2 and even 1...

Diablo 3 lacks all the subtly of its predecessors, and none of their grim, macabre atmosphere and near immaculate soundtracks, that captured the mood to a perfection.
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