Diablo® III

What D2 had that D3 does not.

Play a necromancer loot was pointless in d2.... Like completely and utterly pointless there was no excitement for loot because it was useless. As someone who level 99'd a hardcore naked necromancer it wasnt customization, it was a horrible design choice that didnt put any weight into loot whatsoever.

Customization because the entire gear aspect of an arpg is completely and utterly worhless is hardly customization.
Edited by Osirisis#1959 on 1/14/2013 4:41 PM PST
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You also forgot how d2 had 4 out of 5 broken classes at launch. It had really horrible loot(far worse drop rates then even d3(played legitimately). Lower quality graphics, the same amount of content. complete and utter lack of challenge. Serious balance issues. Lack of customization requiring a total rebuild of your character if you decided you wanted a new skill setup(until much later in patching).

Far more heavily hacked and botted. World pvp trolling, and a complete and utter lack of game balance. Other then that it was great for its time.

Now im not bashing diablo 2 or call it horrible dont get me wrong. there are two things about Diablo 2 I found vastly superior to Diablo 2.Diblo 2 had ladders, and a Non crybaby entitled generation fanbase, I miss the enjoyable community of diablo2, instead of the whiney entitled brats we see here. Your such a whiney uptight freaking crybaby brat it is 100% obvious you were not a d2 fan, you probably werent even born when the game was at its peak.
Edited by Osirisis#1959 on 1/14/2013 5:02 PM PST
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D3 is an entire new game on its own. It is the successor of the Diablo series and therefore has globally the same game mechanisms, environment, characters and story line. It may or may not include features from previous games and there's definitely place for changes, enhancements and 180's at some points.

In the game industry, you just can't stay with what's good; you have to innovate to keep up with the fed up kids always asking for more. I miss some of the goodies from D2 as well my friend, but we need to get over it and work with what we have now, instead of against it.

From what I understand, they are creating account bound items to promote the loot hunt in a way. I think it's the only way to go if we want godly gear or ultimately some real end-game content. People won't mind farming the stuff if they can purchase it on the AH.
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Someone please explain to me why they "nerfed" our ability (from D2) to use our brains and free will to create/select games to play in. As in games with names. As in, the objective is clear before you enter the game. Now that we'll have monster power in public games, public gaming should improve right?

Wrong

Say you join an Act 3 game at MP6 assuming they're farming the keywarden, but in reality they're just doing a farming run. There's no way to tell, because the only information you have is the quest. Point is, virtually nobody plays quests anymore, they simply play at a quest level that gives them access to the waypoints they need for their particular objective. This creates a mess in-game, with people going willy-nilly or just quitting because the party isn't doing what they thought they'd do.

If you support the idea that we need a game lobby, PLEASE visit and bump my thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593621490?page=1


D2 did not take an Einstein to figure out. It is only a little bit more complex than this game. I can easily figure out how to make any build that I want for any class and maybe even be correct on choosing the right gear for the build.

It is only tough for those that make it tough on themselves. It is only tough for those that are new. But after about a month or less you will figure it out. Most if not all of it without bothering to look anything up online at all.
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01/13/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Why
even in PvP you could see a naked bone necro own geared players.


uhh nope. you would almost never see this

d2 was tremendously gear dependent too. sure you'd occasionally see an upset duel, but typically the better geared player would win. of course, different class matchups varied slightly
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90 Human Death Knight
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Someone please explain to me why they "nerfed" our ability (from D2) to use our brains and free will to create/select games to play in. As in games with names. As in, the objective is clear before you enter the game. Now that we'll have monster power in public games, public gaming should improve right?

Wrong

Say you join an Act 3 game at MP6 assuming they're farming the keywarden, but in reality they're just doing a farming run. There's no way to tell, because the only information you have is the quest. Point is, virtually nobody plays quests anymore, they simply play at a quest level that gives them access to the waypoints they need for their particular objective. This creates a mess in-game, with people going willy-nilly or just quitting because the party isn't doing what they thought they'd do.

If you support the idea that we need a game lobby, PLEASE visit and bump my thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593621490?page=1


D2 did not take an Einstein to figure out. It is only a little bit more complex than this game. I can easily figure out how to make any build that I want for any class and maybe even be correct on choosing the right gear for the build.

It is only tough for those that make it tough on themselves. It is only tough for those that are new. But after about a month or less you will figure it out. Most if not all of it without bothering to look anything up online at all.


Doesn't need to be amazingly complex and difficult to work out to have great replayability
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01/13/2013 08:04 PMPosted by DarthSki44
The fact that Blizz updates, adds content, takes feedback seriously, should be commended. Blizzard has been made famous for this, always taking time to improve. This is not a downside. In fact you would be hard pressed to mention another company that paid this much attention to their games after their release (non MMO).


ME and Bioware...
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i agree with everything the original poster said. all this game does is make me miss d2 :(
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01/13/2013 07:20 PMPosted by Harsh
I like reading d2 vs d3 threads. Because maybe there is hope that d3 will rekindle some of that d2.


I wouldn't hold my breath unfortunately.
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90 Night Elf Druid
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Posts: 386
I'll take a remastered Diablo 2 any day over this game.

Act 4 is about 20 minutes if you want to do it quickly, what a shame.


This.
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I think the biggest difference between D2 and D3 is that D3 is missing David Brevik, Matt Uelmen and Blizzard North.


True.

D3 is an entire new game on its own. It is the successor of the Diablo series and therefore has globally the same game mechanisms, environment, characters and story line. It may or may not include features from previous games and there's definitely place for changes, enhancements and 180's at some points.

In the game industry, you just can't stay with what's good; you have to innovate to keep up with the fed up kids always asking for more. I miss some of the goodies from D2 as well my friend, but we need to get over it and work with what we have now, instead of against it.

From what I understand, they are creating account bound items to promote the loot hunt in a way. I think it's the only way to go if we want godly gear or ultimately some real end-game content. People won't mind farming the stuff if they can purchase it on the AH.


True, and you have unusally tidy grammar, save for "D3 is an entire new game on its own," which should read, "D3 is an entirely new game on its own." Now that I have asserted my literary prowess...we're asking for more, and asking Blizzard to work with what they have now. Diablo 2 is a 'universally known' game, hence referencing it to illustrate points saves time. Also, Diablo 2 had many nice (fun!) features that weren't included in Diablo 3.

Right now, Diablo 3 isn't very fun. We are suggesting ways to improve it, suggesting ideas that could make it more fun. It is all we can do to make the game more enjoyable.
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D3 is too loot dependent to the point if you have no items equipped you dps is next to nothing.
D2 since skills were based on level, you could still do something with no gear, even in PvP you could see a naked bone necro own geared players.
Since D2 was not gear dependent you had much more choice in what gear you wanted to play around with, without sacrificing too much.
D3, you do not have much choice in gear or gear options because your damage is dependent on how much IAS,crit damage, crit chance, and primary stats you can get on your items.
So every one wants the same items with same stats, leaving little room for anything else.
D2 also had caps, IAS cap,FCR cap, FHR cap. So with caps you had to think about what item combinations should I choose to give me X amount of fhr,fcr and ias and so forth. Creating unique item combinations in D2, adding more customization.
With D3 having only a cap on run speed, people again are given little to think about in gear choice as like i said you simply try to keep increasing all the stats on items that gives you more dps.

Loot was also much better in D2, as it was less random then it is in D3.
In d3 you could find a lacuni bracers, but if they do not roll specific stats like crit or res all they garbage.
Also in D2 you had rune words which worked out good. High runes were hard to find, but if you found enough low runs you could fuse them together creating a higher rune, so you always felt 1 step closer to getting some of the best gear in game.
In d3 you mainly have to rely on other people finding the items you want for you, and when they do find them you have to grind forever to get gold to buy them.
And with gold losing its value all the time, with little amount of gold sinks and tons of gold bots items become more expensive to the point where it would take you 2 years to grind enough gold for the items you want, and by the time you grind for the gold the item is all ready gone.
So really there is nothing to grind towards as your items are based on what others find and post in the AH, and you only have 1.5days to try and get billions of gold to buy it.

Thoes are some of the things which I do not like about d3 making it feel less like D2. Thought I share my thoughts about it.


Be realistic here man..how can a naked char defeat a geared char on the first place?? O_O IRL how can a man with nothing win over a man with everything, simple logic tbh..D3 is a game for real players not the type of player that plays for an hour an he wants his char to be godly immediately..come on!
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i love threads like this, i miss d2 so much
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01/14/2013 06:21 PMPosted by Beemo
how can a man with nothing win over a man with everything
With superior skill

Why did I even need to explain this? Are you that dense?
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Posts: 545
Some comparisons. I'll start with the nods to D2, then the areas I think D3 did better:
  • D2 had a deep socketing/rune system. D3 has four gems.
  • D2 had a lot of emphasis on damage types for monster resistances and immunities, as well as tradeoffs like poison having high damage over longer time periods, ice having freze chance, fire having AoE, etc.. D3 has no monster immunities and simply an "allresist" stat in Interno. Elemental damage type differences are cosmetic.
  • D2 worked attack accuracy into your stats as an extra element to consider when calculating damage. D3 doesn't have this.
  • D2 had a separation of magic and physical damage. D3 bases all aspects of damage on weapon power alone, so a really sharp nonmagical axe makes your fireballs stronger.
  • D2 had random maps. D3 has some random sideevents but the maps are very static.
  • D2 had open world play, whereas D3 forces the story on you at all times.
  • D2 had the concept of charms. D3 does not.
  • D2 had runewords. D3 has nothing comparable.
  • In D2, unique items were rare but not so rare as to not find one in an entire playthrough to the end of the highest difficulty. In D3, I'd imagine finding your own Set in the endgame is all but impossible.
  • D2 had prime evils. D3 had lesser evils. :)
  • D2 had the necromancer. D3 has the witch doctor but he is most certainly not the necromancer.
  • D2 had offline play as an option for hardcore players. D3 has rubberbanding and the occassional lag spike for hardcore players.
  • D2 allowed PvP skirmishes. D3 has it coming soon.
  • D2's story, while not out of this world, was good enough. D3's story is painful, not just because it's forced upon you at all times but because it's cliche and there are glaring plot problems. The lord of lies is transparent, literally and figuratively. The great military tactition's strategies are straightforward, you know them all in advance and they all fail. The mysterious witch with an evil voice whose evilness is constantly being suggested to you ends up *gasp* betraying you.
  • D2's music is extremely fitting. D3's music is forgettable.
  • D2 had Duriel, and some other intimidating moments. D3 has the cartoony version of the Butcher, who in D1 was possibly the best firstboss of any game I've played.
  • On a related note, D2 aimed for a very gothic, dark theme. D3 is more cartoony.


I could probably double the size of this list if I really wanted to.

...

On the other side:
  • D3 has followers which are a bit more meaningful than mercenaries were in D2.
  • D3 has the auction house. Ok, so this isn't really "better", but it's something it has but D2 doens't at least.
  • D3 doesn't force you to start anew just to adjust skill trees or try a new build.
  • D3 is 3D. D2 is 2D.
  • D3 is more accessible. That is, you can see your characters on the website, you can build your friends off of facebook, etc. D2 was probably better at communitybuilding since it supported openworld and didn't have the AH but D3 is still better at leveraging social media, etc., to build off of existing communities.
Edited by Quadratic#1741 on 1/14/2013 8:11 PM PST
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AHs removing the point of the loot hunt and the removal of character customization utterly and completely mutilated Diablo in my opinion. Please, please do something, dear Blizzard :(


If by removing the item hunt you mean made trading 100x easier, then yes, they removed the item hunt.

D2 trading was actually easier due to public game list. You see lots of people bartering.

Another point I dont like is random properties of legendaries. If you got a Mara amulet in D2, even the lowest rolled one is quite good, as the difference is only a few stat points. Now if you got a Lacuni in D3, you literally have to pray for <5% chance for it to roll crit chance.
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how can a man with nothing win over a man with everything
With superior skill

Why did I even need to explain this? Are you that dense?


ok lets say i have a gun..u know karate or whatever martial arts haha! lets see who wins..
!@#$!@#$%!! be more "REALISTIC!" GET A LIFE :rofl:
Edited by Beemo#6921 on 1/14/2013 8:44 PM PST
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Are people totally insane?

D2 was so infected with cheating, duping and botting, runewords were created as a joke. It was impossible for anyone to legitly find Ber Ist Jah. I found 7 High Runes in YEARS of playing. And never found 1 Death Fathom or Tyreals, or freaking half of the Paladin set.

And then there was stat allocation. Everyone knows you just had enough STR for you gear and the rest in VIT or else you were a nOOb.

The only exception was Dex Zon's, Max Block pallys, and E-Shield Sorcs.

Everyone had the same basic end game gear. Pefect shako, Perfect !@# or CoH, Perfect anni, ect..

Edit: LOL clearly you cannot shorten up Enigma. Nice filter
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Someone please explain to me why they "nerfed" our ability (from D2) to use our brains and free will to create/select games to play in. As in games with names. As in, the objective is clear before you enter the game. Now that we'll have monster power in public games, public gaming should improve right?

Wrong

Say you join an Act 3 game at MP6 assuming they're farming the keywarden, but in reality they're just doing a farming run. There's no way to tell, because the only information you have is the quest. Point is, virtually nobody plays quests anymore, they simply play at a quest level that gives them access to the waypoints they need for their particular objective. This creates a mess in-game, with people going willy-nilly or just quitting because the party isn't doing what they thought they'd do.

If you support the idea that we need a game lobby, PLEASE visit and bump my thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593621490?page=1

D2 did not take an Einstein to figure out. It is only a little bit more complex than this game. I can easily figure out how to make any build that I want for any class and maybe even be correct on choosing the right gear for the build.

It is only tough for those that make it tough on themselves. It is only tough for those that are new. But after about a month or less you will figure it out. Most if not all of it without bothering to look anything up online at all.


I think you missed the point of my post, it wasn't about builds at all, but about how sterile and lame the current public game system is compared to D2's.
Edited by Agamemnicon#1713 on 1/14/2013 9:53 PM PST
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