Diablo® III

What D2 had that D3 does not.

Posts: 11,963

If you can't spot the problem there, stop arguing.

I'm leveling a new character. I hit 60. Unless I utterly ignore the AH, I already have enough gold just from vendoring every single piece of gear I've ever looted (since they're all worthless), and can instantly buy enough legendaries to make finding an upgrade almost completely impossible for the next few weeks/months.

I then spend the next few hundreds hours farming many, many useless rares/legendaries to turn into pocket change on the AH so I can afford my next 10 crit dmg upgrade on the AH.

Yeah, it makes it easier. Yeah, it makes droprates less enjoyable. Yeah, it removes one of the main purposes of the game, the loot hunt.

When your only option to enjoy a rewarding loot-hunt game is to ignore the central trading mechanism of the game, yes, you have a problem.

You want it both ways.

You want to have active trading without a centralized trading HUB (aka, the AH)
You want to have loot drops, but don't want a lot of loot as you level up. For instance, you said you don't want enough resources to "instantly buy enough legendaries to make finding an upgrade almost completely impossible"

So which is it? You want a bunch of loot drops and easily available high-end gear, or do you want difficult loot drops with difficult to obtain high-end gear?

Your arguments literally contradict themselves.
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Diablo 2 gear dependent? I suspect the people who suggest this aren't very familiar with the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6dpUe2wGGY
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Honestly I wouldn't mind an HD version of D2. It's the same game with the same features but a few new runes maybe some new gear. Make it like $15 for download.
As much as I'd like it I doubt they'll add any characters and even more importantly I doubt they'd ever do it, but a man can dream can he not?
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Here's what I would have liked to have seen:
________________

-Ability to travel between acts via the waypoint in a single game session.

-Lower prices on gems (It's getting out of hand IMO).

-Allow all tiers of gems above flawless square to have a chance to drop in inferno. In D2 the highest rune or gem always had a chance to drop.

-Fast movement speed buff to all classes. I started up D2 and my characters were like 10x faster than anything remotely possible with Diablo 3.

-More unique items instead of items with a general stat buff. Have items that give more unique abilities and generate builds out of item combinations.

-Remove respawn timer in general. 5 seconds is definitely an improvement, but D2 didn't have res timers at all and it worked just fine. IMO, this system is just something that got in the way for players from the start and just generated periods of taping on your desk waiting to get back to the action.

-Paragon levels should also increase pick up radius slightly.

-Allow jeweler to socket and imbune items with magical properties (maybe normal items without magic properties can be useful now?)

-In general there should be a slightly less focus centered around gold. IMO, D3 is too gold heavy compared to D2 and in some cases people may be just farming for gold instead of actually looking for items. I would propose a general decrease in the amount certain things cost in the game (reduce cost of highest tier staffs, gems, etc a bit).

-Make the infernal machine less random by having guaranteed organ drops after 5 stacks acquired. Keys should still be random.

-The ring obtained from infernal machine should be slightly more rewarding and less random.

-A salvaged hellfire ring should give back a random organ piece (makes the event less of a grind).

-2d cutscenes removed after beating the act.

-Increase player limit to 6 or 8

-Improved lobby area and make it more like Diablo 2.

-Remove online only requirement (No benefit to this at all especially when it comes to security).

-Ability to dye legendary items

-Identify all

Anyway, those are just some of my 2 cents as a long time D2 player that wants to see D3 move in a different and, IMO, a better direction.
Edited by Fac7orX#1826 on 1/16/2013 5:13 AM PST
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Before I start quoting the troll I'll say new/revolutionary things almost always take a lot of time until people start seeing their true value. Not saying D3 will some day be looked at like that, but it does have revolutionary potential gravely parting it from its beloved predecessor. We'll have to wait for D3 to age (like D2 did), cause after all you can't compare something without having seen/known/tested both equally. And I doubt anyone here has yet played D3 for as many years as most have D2. Still, today's games are made for the almighty $, so chances are high D2 (or in my opinion D1) will never be matched, the old principles simply wouldn't generate a high enough cash flow and we will never be as young again as we were when first playing or growing up with the old games, nor will we be as easily satisfied as in the past with the mass communication that the internet provides.

Ok, let's start with the best-of-troll-quotes:

01/13/2013 11:27 PMPosted by Stiflah
Utter nonsense. Obviously they were crazily rare, and obviously bots would find more, if they were running 24/7. This affected me how..? It certainly didn't decrease my excitement when I found one for myself. I could still have amazing fun leveling new alts all the time, trying new builds, experimenting, lld/mld,pking etc.


Great stuff! The best thing is the very same argument works for D3! Just let me modify what you say:

Obviously very good D3 items are crazily rare, and obviously bots do find more, if they are running 24/7. This affects me how..? It certainly doesn't decrease my excitement when I find one for myself. I can still have amazing fun leveling at least all classes in SC & HC, trying new builds without having to waste hours just cause I wanted to test something new, freely experimenting with these builds, lld/mld (duel option with the upcoming patch, but yes yes, not the same, ok ok sir), no pking k buh, etc.


Ok, seems I forgot you NEVER find any good items at all, else one of them surely would have been an upgrade for your character... but yes, you found zero.

Of course you couldn't get full perfect gear in D2 self-found in a few weeks - no-one would have bothered playing. But you could and did find many amazing pieces for you and your alts.

In all my time playing D3, I didn't find a single upgrade for myself. I'm aware lots of people did, but ZERO upgrades for myself? Not 1, but 0. That's utterly and completely ridiculous.


Amazing! In all your time playing D3, from beginning (first character, lvl 1) to the end, you never found a better item than the starting gear! Ok let's say you did exaggerate a bit and got a few upgrades till you hit lvl 60. After that you had zero upgrades until today. Thanks for such high quality comments! I guess I'm rather lucky as I found hundreds of upgrades, even with lvl 60 and am still finding new ones, like not too long ago my wiz shoulders, helmet and barb helmet, pants... etc etc. Not the perfect gear, but still amazing pieces for me and my alts. Deja-vu?

Which wasnt any different at D2. Trading was the only way to get the good stuff, unless people did bot - which many did, sadly.


01/13/2013 11:27 PMPosted by Stiflah
Absurd nonsense.


I doubt that trading and botting in D2 is absurd nonsense. Also, the AH itself isn't a new thing, in D2 it was called "the internet"... ain't such a small scale. Of course an ingame AH is an addition, but hey, at the same time a good amount of shady/forum trading got cut down cause items are availabe in a much more comfortable way. Looking at the pure numbers of items availabe on the D3 AH and the "D2 AH" D3 does have a lot less good ones, even when looking at the same period of time (from the release of D3 till today).

That aside I do think the ingame AH is a huge problem. Not because of "designed" droprates but because of people not deserving such a powerful tool. Without the AH and things like a viewable char profile, the process of discovering good-amazing-epic-perfect items would have been so much slower... well except for the people shopping like in D2.

I hope you will quote this and say something like "absurd utter nonsense" - but always remember: The only nonsense will be your found-zero-upgrades-in-all-my-time-playing-D3 comment.
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Diablo 2 LOD had rune words! and better gems!
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There is so much wrong :(. I think the worst is that they took out the only RPG element (character development) in the franchise and replaced it with items and skill runes. This makes it an action game. I really wanted an action RPG game not an action game.
Edited by Dulac#1509 on 1/15/2013 9:56 PM PST
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Diablo 2 gear dependent? I suspect the people who suggest this aren't very familiar with the game:


The OP said along the lines of Diablo 3 is FAR MORE gear dependant THAN Diablo 2 and more RANDOM in terms of crap than good compared to Diablo 2
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/15/2013 9:59 PM PST
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First skill points and skill trees were taken out because Jay Wilson didn't think they were fun.

Then the cool gems we saw in Blizzcon were changed to our simple stat gems because he thought they were too complicated.

Then skill runes were taken out because he thought they are too limiting.

Apparently cool and creative items in diablo 2 were too complicated so he just made all items revolve around a handful of dull stats.

Casual players cant handle a PvP or leveling race ladder either because a ladder isn't for casual players.

Why isn't he fired yet?
Edited by Mathew#6263 on 1/15/2013 10:00 PM PST
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lol Blizzard should make D2 with D3 graphics and would make a home run one more time with new D2 only this time they would be deserved the home run.
lol would be nice that diablo would take JW to hell ASAP maybe then somebody new would break the ice and fix the garbage which we call D3
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Posts: 53
Yeah but shouldn't we all have learned from the mistakes of the past? I mean... there was D2 before there ever was a D3 right? If Blizz had wanted to do it correctly at first, they wouldn't have tried to re-invent the Diablo series, and they would of built on top of what was already there. D3 is not Diablo 2's sequel, the only thing it has in common with the diablo series is its name and the name of some of its components and nothing else.
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90 Human Death Knight
13710
Posts: 2,869
01/15/2013 08:39 PMPosted by Carbraxis
Before I start quoting the troll I'll say new/revolutionary things almost always take a lot of time until people start seeing their true value. Not saying D3 will some day be looked at like that, but it does have revolutionary potential gravely parting it from its beloved predecessor. We'll have to wait for D3 to age (like D2 did), cause after all you can't compare something without having seen/known/tested both equally. And I doubt anyone here has yet played D3 for as many years as most have D2. Still, today's games are made for the almighty $, so chances are high D2 (or in my opinion D1) will never be matched, the old principles simply wouldn't generate a high enough cash flow and we will never be as young again as we were when first playing or growing up with the old games, nor will we be as easily satisfied as in the past with the mass communication that the internet provides.


Nice attempts to sound clever.

Obviously very good D3 items are crazily rare, and obviously bots do find more, if they are running 24/7. This affects me how..? It certainly doesn't decrease my excitement when I find one for myself. I can still have amazing fun leveling at least all classes in SC & HC, trying new builds without having to waste hours just cause I wanted to test something new, freely experimenting with these builds, lld/mld (duel option with the upcoming patch, but yes yes, not the same, ok ok sir), no pking k buh, etc.

Ok, seems I forgot you NEVER find any good items at all, else one of them surely would have been an upgrade for your character... but yes, you found zero.


You missed the entire point of the post where there's no AH or trading mechanism where you can instantly upgrade your entire gear-set in less than 2 minutes and all but ensuring no upgrades will drop for that character for the next few weeks, barring blind luck. Nice work though, I genuinely didn't think it was possible for someone to miss such an obvious point - +1 to you.

Amazing! In all your time playing D3, from beginning (first character, lvl 1) to the end, you never found a better item than the starting gear! Ok let's say you did exaggerate a bit and got a few upgrades till you hit lvl 60. After that you had zero upgrades until today. Thanks for such high quality comments! I guess I'm rather lucky as I found hundreds of upgrades, even with lvl 60 and am still finding new ones, like not too long ago my wiz shoulders, helmet and barb helmet, pants... etc etc. Not the perfect gear, but still amazing pieces for me and my alts. Deja-vu?


Utterly illogical argument. Are you saying that, once you hit 60, and spent the couple million you'd earnt on level 60 rares/legendaries, that you then went on to find hundreds of upgrades?

Good for you, man. Incredibly believable too. I quite nearly believed you. That's how believable it was.

As repeatedly said, unless you ignore the AH and refuse to spend your picked up gold on upgrades, the AH cuts back on your chances of finding decent loot 100x. It's in the game why again?

I doubt that trading and botting in D2 is absurd nonsense. Also, the AH itself isn't a new thing, in D2 it was called "the internet"... ain't such a small scale. Of course an ingame AH is an addition, but hey, at the same time a good amount of shady/forum trading got cut down cause items are availabe in a much more comfortable way. Looking at the pure numbers of items availabe on the D3 AH and the "D2 AH" D3 does have a lot less good ones, even when looking at the same period of time (from the release of D3 till today).

That aside I do think the ingame AH is a huge problem. Not because of "designed" droprates but because of people not deserving such a powerful tool. Without the AH and things like a viewable char profile, the process of discovering good-amazing-epic-perfect items would have been so much slower... well except for the people shopping like in D2.

I hope you will quote this and say something like "absurd utter nonsense" - but always remember: The only nonsense will be your found-zero-upgrades-in-all-my-time-playing-D3 comment.


Ah is this where you claim that a huge percentage of people used to use 3rd party sites to instantly make the game pointless for themselves, is it? Care to show proof?

How does having a viewably character profile speed up the process of people finding amazing gear..? Unsure if serious. It's not as if there are any difficult concepts to understand whatsoever in D3s gearing process.

Of course there will always be cheats, in every game, in every walk of life. For myself, I like to give my custom to games which fight against it, not encourage it to the detriment of all.
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what i miss from diablo 2 the most is the Player Killing system.

when you join a random pub game. first, party up with them to know their location. second, hostile them and then hunt them down.
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Diablo 2 was released June 29, 2000. And it is now January 14, 2013.

ummmm. Don't you think it is time to move on. It is like your comparing an old a$$ Atari to a PS3. Get over D2 already would ya's.
It's hard to move on from Diablo 2 when Diablo 3 is a massive step backwards in every area of the game apart from visuals.I'm sorry but a lot of people myself included like games that are not dumbed down so a down syndrome monkey can play it competently.
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i wish with such a change in game philosophy, they could of changed the name of the game. Then it wouldn't have to hold up to expectations of d2. But maybe if they did that we would all be saying what did Jay Wilson make the new hell gate london ? :P
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funny part is at 1 39 am pst there was still 20 thousand people playing diablo 2 online... that was out of the 50 thousand people on bnet.
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What else does D3 lack you say?

Druids!

/sips wisdom from Malthael's chalice o.0
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Good thread, I quite agree with OP, Stiflah and many others, specifically on D3 being too gear dependant and lacking character customization, which is core. Of course D3 corrected many of D2 problems, like gold auto pickup, but these are details, not core. So to add my 2 cents, D3 compared to D2, is lacking a little bit of...

flavor
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in PvP you could see a naked bone necro own geared players.


Stopped reading there for sure.. ever heard of strength bug moron?
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01/15/2013 08:25 PMPosted by Fac7orX
-Lower prices on gems (It's getting out of hand IMO).


Its pretty out of hand on the asian AH, 1.8m per radiant star emerald.
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