Diablo® III

So getting one shotted is dueling?

Then show-up. >:)


I'm already here, waiting on you buddy. Lets do a bunch of fights. Not just 1 ok?
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01/17/2013 08:50 PMPosted by ZRaiyne
Then show-up when servers go live. >:)


WTF..... challenges me but won't fight now....

ZRaiyne, you are the definition of coward.
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No wonder you play in 2million EHP tank gear, you're too afraid of dying in a video game.

Enjoy playing in your safety suit killing slow and never dying against those big nasty monsters.

Call me when you're bored of easy mode and want to fight a hard hitting player for once.

01/17/2013 08:54 PMPosted by Chillaxin
ZRaiyne, you are the definition of coward.
Edited by Chillaxin#1429 on 1/17/2013 8:59 PM PST
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I connect at 45 mbps and there is times it lags hard but when I see it happening I back off and leave game... But I totally see where he is coming from It gets nerve racking when your a high level and random lag occurs and you are not able to quick drop the game.
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I like the way you think look to counter instead of cry and have it made easier :)
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Dueling isn't intended to be balanced, though, so don't expect a fair fight. That's not what dueling is about. There will probably be some match-ups in which you're one-shotted (this is a big reason why we have no permanent Hardcore deaths at the moment). There will also probably be some match-ups in which you one-shot other players. Your heroes are designed to kill things quickly and without mercy, and in this case those "things" just happen to be other heroes.


Got to love this bull!@#$ they feed you. Dueling is suppose to be fair. That's how the real world works. I know this is a game, but do you expect one class to rule them all (Barbs) and be better than anyone else? Each class needs to be balanced, that is the ONLY thing that will keep D3 alive is balanced PvP.
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PVP is pretty good already. Watch good players play, like Moldran, he shows that it depends on skills mostly.

http://de.twitch.tv/moldran/b/357960225 (check 1h52m26 seconds for an epic Barb DH match)

You cannot nerf the damage, else high skilled players couldn't kill each other anymore.
You cannot balance pvp based on unexperienced players.

Even the "OP" Witchdoctor will have a much harder time as soon as people got CC-reduction on their gear. I don't say theres nothing to improve, ofc there is, but its not as bad as many people want to make believe.

Learn how to spec against each class, learn how to gear for pvp, and you guys will have a much better time playing pvp.
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01/17/2013 09:58 PMPosted by Synnian
Even the "OP" Witchdoctor will have a much harder time as soon as people got CC-reduction on their gear. I don't say theres nothing to improve, ofc there is, but its not as bad as many people want to make believe.


They're nerfing crowd control by giving everyone 30% free. That turns the dial pretty far in the pay-to-win direction, and they'll have to nerf everything to balance that out.
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Reducing damage has nothing to do with balance, if damage is reduces for all characters. People just want to be able to fight longer and be able to use a skill more then once.
So a 80% damage reduction should be in order.


Some form of damage reduction is definitely on the table. Before we make any changes, though, we want to watch how players adapt to PvP combat. Dueling has only been available for few days, and we're already seeing new builds and strategies develop -- something which we'll need to consider when evaluating the possibility of blanket damage reduction (or any other tweak that would only affect the dueling world).

Either way, we don't want to compromise PvE gameplay for the sake of balancing dueling. We also don't want to put a lot of restrictions on dueling or create tons of architecture around the system. It's a relatively uncomplicated feature that's there for people take advantage of (if they want), not something that's intended to be regulated or become part of the core gameplay experience. Any changes we make would ultimately be framed by those goals, and it's possible we won't make very many adjustments as a result.

We're loving the feedback we're getting, though -- even the harsh criticisms. Keep it up!

The part that really pisses me off, is I had a thread suggesting they both make a PVP flag for 95% damage reduction vs players(this could be changed to 90% based on testing).
I set this thread up a month ago. They deleted the thread. I suppose, logic was too much of a troll for Blizzard to handle?


You mean this one that's still active? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415464925

It was a good read. Thanks for the feedback. :)


Why don't you understand that PvP and diablo go hand in hand? The name of the game is DIABLO AKA SATAN this game is about killing people, and other things. A lot of players are PKers and want to slay other people and watch as they cry in agony. The name of the game is DIABLO not Flowerpuff Power Pals.

All of your posts about pvp basically say that meh, we dont really care about pvp, dont really care if most people enjoy it. Hopefully everyone will figure that out eventually. We might try and make it better someday, dont want to sacrifice pve environment what-so-ever. How does making pvp good change pve by the way?

I'm pretty sure this whole concept is the reason that we dont have channels anymore to hang out in. What is this UI? Its nearly impossible to view who's in your channel. You cant create your own channel at all.
Edited by JWNZ#1466 on 1/17/2013 10:36 PM PST
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PVP is pretty good already. Watch good players play, like Moldran, he shows that it depends on skills mostly.

http://de.twitch.tv/moldran/b/357960225 (check 1h52m26 seconds for an epic Barb DH match)

You cannot nerf the damage, else high skilled players couldn't kill each other anymore.
You cannot balance pvp based on unexperienced players.

Even the "OP" Witchdoctor will have a much harder time as soon as people got CC-reduction on their gear. I don't say theres nothing to improve, ofc there is, but its not as bad as many people want to make believe.

Learn how to spec against each class, learn how to gear for pvp, and you guys will have a much better time playing pvp.


when i watch that duel, i think, reducing pvp damage will actually make it better, why? notice how death occurs, basically landing 3 skills in a row after missing the chance 30 times, duel lasted several mins... with less player damage, players could afford to also be more aggressive. instead of playing super defensive and relying on landing the first hit followed by finishing blow, players could actually duke it out, take many hits, and the fighting styles would evolve from there. moldran did what he needed to do in the fight to have a chance, play defensive and chase when an opportunity arose, use terrain best he could, and try to predict his opponent. he also is very tanky in his gear, and seems to be able to take more hits than most. with pvp reduction though, he would be that much more tanky, and though it would be harder to kill the other person or catch them, he could probably chase them 10 times better than he could now. likewise the demon hunter would not be able to just play keep away all day if she wanted to actually kill him.

overall i think having to land more hits to kill would be more fun for everyone. I don't know if 80% is right or if 95% is right, but 50-75% should be a good start to test it. however if damage reduction is added to pvp, sustain needs to be adjusted as well.
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01/18/2013 03:38 AMPosted by UGotGanked
overall i think having to land more hits to kill would be more fun for everyone.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. This is the main reason I stopped playing counterstrike. I was tired of every battle ending in 1 hit. I enjoy longer battles.
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Whineablo
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PVP is pretty good already. Watch good players play, like Moldran, he shows that it depends on skills mostly.

http://de.twitch.tv/moldran/b/357960225 (check 1h52m26 seconds for an epic Barb DH match)

You cannot nerf the damage, else high skilled players couldn't kill each other anymore.
You cannot balance pvp based on unexperienced players.

Even the "OP" Witchdoctor will have a much harder time as soon as people got CC-reduction on their gear. I don't say theres nothing to improve, ofc there is, but its not as bad as many people want to make believe.

Learn how to spec against each class, learn how to gear for pvp, and you guys will have a much better time playing pvp.


when i watch that duel, i think, reducing pvp damage will actually make it better, why? notice how death occurs, basically landing 3 skills in a row after missing the chance 30 times, duel lasted several mins... with less player damage, players could afford to also be more aggressive. instead of playing super defensive and relying on landing the first hit followed by finishing blow, players could actually duke it out, take many hits, and the fighting styles would evolve from there. moldran did what he needed to do in the fight to have a chance, play defensive and chase when an opportunity arose, use terrain best he could, and try to predict his opponent. he also is very tanky in his gear, and seems to be able to take more hits than most. with pvp reduction though, he would be that much more tanky, and though it would be harder to kill the other person or catch them, he could probably chase them 10 times better than he could now. likewise the demon hunter would not be able to just play keep away all day if she wanted to actually kill him.

overall i think having to land more hits to kill would be more fun for everyone. I don't know if 80% is right or if 95% is right, but 50-75% should be a good start to test it. however if damage reduction is added to pvp, sustain needs to be adjusted as well.


Ok. So if you reduce the pvp damage by 80%, a barb with 98% damagereduction will take full 0.4% of the damage. Lets say he got some liferegeneration, 1.5k? You would have to deal about 360k damage per second, persistent, only to break even with his life regeneration. And thats only the case if he got 0% block and dodge. Btw, 1.5k isnt much, they can easily stack up to 3k, +passive 2% of 150k+ life, just so you have an idea what you are talking about. So overall, you would have to deal like 1 million dps , persistent, to pass his defense. And that only if he stands still and get hit like a retard. I'm just saying, only because you guys want to stand in front of each other, bashing on each other without dodging, regenerating, using the map for your tactical advantage, that doesn't mean that everyone likes that kind of dumb unskilled pvp. In what other game can you tank the damage of your pvp opponent please? I don't know any, and if there was any game like that, nobody would play it. League of legends for example, you are bursted down so fast that most people cant even react. I can only say this again: YOU CANNOT BALANCE PVP BASED ON UNSKILLED PLAYERS.

Every good pvp player would hate the damage reduction, only the unskilled glascannon noobs would like it. Did you see how cool it was and how much Moldran really enjoyed having a hard time to win? How close the battles between Christara and him were? Thats pvp, high skilled, and awesome to watch.

The game has to be balanced based on high skilled pvp, not on wrong equipped wrong specialized beginners that deny to use the environment to their tactical advantage.

Btw., here a link to another post, where people describe how impossible it is to kill a barb ALREADY! , if hes built right. If you really consider that to be balanced by any means, then I really don't know what to say...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592242841
Edited by Synnian#2871 on 1/18/2013 4:19 AM PST
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The game has to be balanced


No
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The game has to be balanced


No


Your right, thats what i wrote earlier, maybe you didn't read it. I think the game is fine as it is, especially after the incoming cc nerfs for pvp.
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Diablo 3 is a game where you can all destroy, kill monsters per thousands. A game where you can let your anger be expressed. That's i love personnally.

And what if we replaced monsters by real players ?

I'd love to see a big arena, such as the one you made for duels but maybe bigger, where many players could fight each other !!!
A sort of general melee which would accept more than 4 players, maybe 8-12-16 ?
You could change your sorts/passive without loadings and when you want, without need to get out the arena, and you could destroy all others players without time limit/objetives, just for fun!

An endless arena, where you could enter in & out when you want without scoreboards, achievements or others stuff like that. No competition, just fun!

Just an arena to have fun with friends or anonymous players you could play with.
I think players need to see something fresh. It would be very cool and it would give a great alternative to act 3 farming.

And you guys, what do you think about this ?

Have a nice day!
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the issue of players being Too Tanky if a pvp damage mitigation is added can be solved easily. all stats have diminishing returns and could also have a cap in pvp mode. Damage reduction from armor and resist should be capped at 85-90% for example(need to test). dodge capped at 75%, block capped at 50%, etc. If you reduce damage, naturally you need to limit defenses as well. You also need to limit healing/sustain on gear based on the damage mitigation % so players cannot heal faster than they die.

If it is possible to reduce damage, it should be even easier to cap defenses. I think people should consider old videos of D3 arena pvp before release. Those 'duels' looked pretty good to me in terms of time length and damage per hit vs. other players. Notice big hitting skills doing 1/4 maybe up to 1/2 of opponents life, and smaller hits/normal hits doing about 10-15% damage. Those matches lasted 1-2 minutes, everyone got to use all their skills and landed several hits on their opponent, but no one was immortal, and no one was killed in under 2 seconds. What's wrong with wanting something like that? Looks way more fun that way than what we got on PTR. we should be striving for that kind of pvp, where gear will matter but everyone still has a shot if they play the matchup right. telling people to gear for defense in pvp is not the solution, because you will then have gross imbalances between different players based on gear choice, and many situations where either everyone gets 1 shot, or no one can kill anyone else. That is why you need universal limitations on damage and defensive stats to ensure everyone can kill or die in a timely manner.

End game gear means we need to reduce some stats so fights can be meaningful contests, not quick draw luck events. If some form of arena or team pvp is ever to be made, we need to make balance changes to lead up to that point. Can't be afraid to experiment with the rules.
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We also don't want to put a lot of restrictions on dueling or create tons of architecture around the system. It's a relatively uncomplicated feature that's there for people take advantage of (if they want), not something that's intended to be regulated or become part of the core gameplay experience.


that s a great point and i am happy to hear it from a blue.. if you start to reduce damage you need to reduce life regeneration and hit points too. there are barbs and also WDs out there with almost 200k hitpoints and massive life reg. almost impossible to kill, even with my 300k dps. it will be crazy if you start trying to balance, I don t think this could work.
Edited by quix#2938 on 1/18/2013 7:56 AM PST
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a good start would be removing barb/monk 30% damage reduction while in the scorched chapel
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We implemented dueling to provide interested players a way to battle each other -- no objectives, no scoring, just Nephalem against Nephalem. It was something the community has been asking for, and with additional PvP modes still in development we honestly didn't have a good reason to keep saying no.

Dueling isn't intended to be balanced, though, so don't expect a fair fight. That's not what dueling is about. There will probably be some match-ups in which you're one-shotted (this is a big reason why we have no permanent Hardcore deaths at the moment). There will also probably be some match-ups in which you one-shot other players. Your heroes are designed to kill things quickly and without mercy, and in this case those "things" just happen to be other heroes.

We don't anticipate that everyone will like dueling. That's fine. While some players might really love it and find it a cool challenge, we're okay if most people don't make it an integral part of their gaming experience. The system exists to give you the opportunity to obliterate your opponents in an environment designed explicitly for that purpose, but that's it -- and we feel it achieves that goal pretty well.

Now, we're still open to your feedback and will be keeping a close on eye on it throughout the PTR process. We're not opposed to making changes if they benefit the game; in fact, that's what a PTR is all about. In return, we just ask that you keep in mind the scope of what dueling is supposed to be, and that you give the system a fair shot before jumping to conclusions or making sweeping requests for buffs/debuffs/etc. Explore new builds, try out different tactics, and then let us know what you think. If we make changes, we want them to be informed, and that tends to work out best if the feedback you give us is also informed (i.e. not just a judgment based on only a few minutes of gameplay). :)


Oh my god, dont you even know what the word duel stands for?

Let me quote from wiki:

"A duel is an arranged engagement in combat between two individuals, with matched weapons in accordance with agreed-upon rules.

Duels in this form were chiefly practised in Early Modern Europe, with precedents in the medieval code of chivalry, and continued into the modern period (19th to early 20th centuries) especially among military officers. During the 17th and 18th centuries (and earlier), duels were mostly fought with swords (the rapier, later the smallsword, and finally the French foil), but beginning in the late 18th century and during the 19th century, duels were more commonly fought using pistols; fencing and pistol duels continued to co-exist throughout the 19th century. Pistol dueling was employed many times in the Colonial United States until it fell out of favor in Eastern America in the 18th century. It was retained however in the American Old West for quite some time due to the absence of common law.

The duel was based on a code of honour. Duels were fought not so much to kill the opponent as to gain "satisfaction", that is, to restore one's honour by demonstrating a willingness to risk one's life for it, and as such the tradition of duelling was originally reserved for the male members of nobility; however, in the modern era it extended to those of the upper classes generally. From the early 17th century duels were often illegal in Europe."

People want DUELING, what you got there is not dueling, since by definition, dueling needs to be fought fairly and with fair weapons, or in this case between balanced chars.
Edited by YourName#1422 on 1/18/2013 9:10 AM PST
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