Diablo® III

A Modest Proposal for Fixing the D3 Skill System

Ditching the flame-proof to brainstorm for a bit here...

One of many persistent gripes that D2 veterans have about D3 is a lack of depth in the skill system. I see many, many, calls for the return of the skill trees that D2 more-or-less invented, and which games like Titan Quest and PoE later built on.

Much as I like a good skill tree system, though, I don't think that this is a feasible option for D3. Radically changing the skill system means changing too many other aspects of the game, including a lot of gear for which people have paid real $$$.

That leaves Blizzard only one option: to somehow add more depth and variety to the existing skill system. I propose two ways of doing this.

1. We know that Blizzard are planning at least one expansion pack for this game. If they follow past patterns, that probably means another Act of story, two more classes, and raising the level cap significantly. Rather than waiting for the xpac, they should give players half of the added levels of added class content (skills & runes) as soon as possible, for the existing classes. If they planned Level 99 for the xpac, then give us Level 80 right away. If I'm right. then this content will already be in development; they don't have to make anything that they wouldn't be otherwise, they just need to fast-track it.

2. More ambitiously, they can allow characters to use more of the existing content at the same time: adding extra runes to each Active skill, and extra Passive skill slots, and balancing that by making monsters tougher again.

One of the biggest complaints with the original Inferno was that the monsters' ability to dish out & take damage was literally doubled, at exactly the same time that characters' development flatlined. Monsters got sharply tougher but we didn't. What if we got an extra Active rune per skill in Nightmare, another in Hell, and another in Inferno, and and kept gaining a Passive skill slot every 10 levels, instead of stalling out at 3... but the monsters doubled in difficulty each time?

I'm suggesting that the complexity that this adds to the existing skill system might just be enough to inspire players to ditch their existing "cookie-cutter" builds (por ejemplo, the one I'm currently playing), and experiment again. By the time we exhaust the new possibilities, the xpac might well be ready to launch... adding more content to the existing classes, and a couple of new classes with just as many skills, runes, and passives to play with, and the cycle can start again.

As I said, this is ambitious. Balance, especially for PvP, will be an issue. But PvP is far from balanced anyway, or even finished, so this might make it possible to Blizzard to take another long, in-depth look at their existing skills, and solve the PvE and PvP balance issues at the same time, and add depth and complexity to an overly-simplisitic skill system by leveraging content that's already in the game.

Admittedly, there's a lot of if coming off this idea.... but what if?

What do you think?

(OK, I'm done... flame on...)
Edited by Waitubold#1127 on 1/21/2013 4:35 PM PST
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01/21/2013 04:54 PMPosted by DeadRu
This is just another gimmie,gimmie,gimie thread.


Did you even read the OP?

No, no you didn't.
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01/21/2013 04:54 PMPosted by DeadRu
Go to www.d3up.com and import your profile. If you want go to www.d3bit.com and get d3bit. Then you can import the items on the ah's into d3up to try and to model.

Flame and spam? This is weirdly kinda awesome. It's like the Internets incarnate, commenting on my thread.

DeadRu, you didn't add a single constructive thing here, but you did make me smile, which is good enough for a Monday. I'm going to "Like" your post. Thanks for playing.

-- W.

P.S. Since I've clearly offended you on a personal level, somehow, don't forget to "Dislike" my post in return. Happy Monday!
Edited by Waitubold#1127 on 1/21/2013 6:31 PM PST
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Did you even read the OP?

No, no you didn't.

Tomac, thank you, sincerely, for your support.

What do you think of the idea itself?
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Posts: 49
This wouldn't work because it doesn't really address the lack of depth.
The biggest problem is that most skills work independently of one another, and characters are too powerful so very few builds really maximize efficiency.

This was my idea on the same issue if you'd like to read

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592799778

Its not very modest however.
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Posts: 9,131
OP - this isn't a modest proposal. Here's a modest proposal (re: Jonathan Swift) to fix Diablo 3 Skills

When your character gains a skill, you can either ditch or keep it. You get to use it for 1 level, then you must decide. If you ditch it, you can power up a skill you kept, but the ditched skill is gone FOREVER.

Actives apply to Actives, Passives apply to Passives.

Skill cannabalism ftw!
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01/21/2013 04:34 PMPosted by Waitubold
I'm suggesting that the complexity that this adds to the existing skill system might just be enough to inspire players to ditch their existing "cookie-cutter" builds (por ejemplo, the one I'm currently playing), and experiment again. By the time we exhaust the new possibilities, the xpac might well be ready to launch... adding more content to the existing classes, and a couple of new classes with just as many skills, runes, and passives to play with, and the cycle can start again.


I do not care how you design a game, those that love to run with the optimal build, cookie cutter to you, will still do so. Just like I love making themed builds in a game. I had many hours of fun using my shaker barbarian build. Although atm I am using what I call my Indiana Jones build and having fun with it. So the same holds true for players that have fun playing optimal builds. if it is less than optimal then it is not fun for them.
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This was my idea on the same issue if you'd like to read

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592799778

Its not very modest however.

Also good stuff, Maxxam, but I don't know that you can really add synergies to the existing skill system. The main point of synergies in D2 was to ensure that points spent on low-level"skills continued to have some value, even when the later-level skills came available; with no skill point system, I don't see how it works. And I really don't think we're going to see a skill point system in D3.
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01/21/2013 08:22 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
I do not care how you design a game, those that love to run with the optimal build, cookie cutter to you, will still do so.

You're right, I should have said optimal, and not cookie-cutter. I'm not trying to be critical of those who want to optimize their builds: like I said, I'm using an optimal build myself. I just think that it might be fun to re-explore the skill system, looking for a new optimal. The state of play now feels static and limiting.

Loot drop rates are part of the problem, too. Really good loot just doesn't drop in this game; I have +198% MF on my gear, and a few Paragon levels, and still haven't found a single piece of decent kit in Inferno: everything on my toon is from the GAH. If build-changing kit dropped in-game with more frequency (assuming it exists, natch), that would also help.

P.S. An "Indiana Jones" build? I'm intrigued. How does that work?
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When your character gains a skill, you can either ditch or keep it. You get to use it for 1 level, then you must decide. If you ditch it, you can power up a skill you kept, but the ditched skill is gone FOREVER.

Actives apply to Actives, Passives apply to Passives.

Skill cannabalism ftw!

That's hardcore, CyberGoat, and I like it... but I don't see the D3 dev team implementing it.

Keep it coming, though. What other ideas are out there? Anyone else with prior threads they'd like to link to? There's lots of stuff buried in the forms on this topic, I'm sure; let's bring it all together, and get a real discussion going.
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Here is my contribution, levelling-up skill runes.
See picture as example how this may work
http://tinypic.com/r/2n0vhw4/6

Player get stronger by playing more.
Guaranteed reward for time spent and put less emphasis on gears.
Balance between Blizzard's direction to open up all skills for player to experiment and yet instill build permanence.
Example: My monk may be able to SSS every 10 sec, but your monk can SSS for 30 hits. So if I like your monk build then I can start leveling that rune, no need to reroll.

Hope I will see this simple request in expansion.
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Here is my contribution, levelling-up skill runes.
See picture as example how this may work
http://tinypic.com/r/2n0vhw4/6

Player get stronger by playing more.
Guaranteed reward for time spent and put less emphasis on gears.
Balance between Blizzard's direction to open up all skills for player to experiment and yet instill build permanence.
Example: My monk may be able to SSS every 10 sec, but your monk can SSS for 30 hits. So if I like your monk build then I can start leveling that rune, no need to reroll.

Hope I will see this simple request in expansion.

Solid idea, seekie. I don't think it will do much to promote build diversity, so much as lock people into the builds that they already have, but it will make those builds more interesting and rewarding to have, over time, which might be good enough if they implement it right.

The D3 dev team thought so, too, at one point: D3 had a leveling, itemized, skill rune system in pre-release builds, and it looked definitely not bad, too; I never did hear a good explanation of why they cut it, just that it "wasn't working."
Edited by Waitubold#1127 on 1/22/2013 5:37 AM PST
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01/22/2013 02:05 AMPosted by Waitubold
I do not care how you design a game, those that love to run with the optimal build, cookie cutter to you, will still do so.

You're right, I should have said optimal, and not cookie-cutter. I'm not trying to be critical of those who want to optimize their builds: like I said, I'm using an optimal build myself. I just think that it might be fun to re-explore the skill system, looking for a new optimal. The state of play now feels static and limiting.

Loot drop rates are part of the problem, too. Really good loot just doesn't drop in this game; I have +198% MF on my gear, and a few Paragon levels, and still haven't found a single piece of decent kit in Inferno: everything on my toon is from the GAH. If build-changing kit dropped in-game with more frequency (assuming it exists, natch), that would also help.

P.S. An "Indiana Jones" build? I'm intrigued. How does that work?


Well since I have been farming for signets what I do is wait for an elite or champion pack. Then use threatening shout to try to get them to drop some extra treasure. I use Hammer of the Ancients to follow up and destroy the pack. While keeping battle rage running so I could use hammer of the ancients more often. Of course I use Sprint with the Marathon rune to speed up the run. If Threatening shout is still on cool down then I still use Hammer of the Ancients on the next elite or champion pack.

Unforgiving along with the Sweeping rune in Cleave to keep enough fury for sprint and Battle Rage. With the MF I have I am getting legendaries to drop way more often than what I normally do with the gear that my barbarian normally uses in inferno. Which I am letting my Wizard hold on to that gear. Just do not want to put it into the stash, personal reasons of course.
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