Diablo® III

How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

Let's just thank Grimiku for the response. They are doing their best.

Thanks Grimiku.
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Legendarys and set items in D2 had preset mins and maxs; the differences between low end and elite is usually not that great compared to here. I find a tals neck in D2 just like most tals neck so the items always has a base value simply b/c of the item itself. In D3, all items have wildy different stats so difference between a bad one and a good one is MASSIVE. This means that say a Lacuni Prowlers with bad stats is worth nothing, yet one with even mediocre stats costs 100s of mill. Items need set base values with preset numbers making them way more similiar.

ie. Lacunit prowlers: set main stat 80-160/vit 60-100/res all 40-80/rw speed 6-12%/crit % 4-8/random 2 other stats.

This can be done however that is needed for balance but atleast the base item is usable unlike now where odds are that Leg has junk stats and totally worthless.

This will mean that elite players will want best of the best, but the average player will find a bad version but it will still be useful....just a bit less than an elite one. This will average prices down and make them affordable to all.

In example, raise your hands how many geared alts you have so you can play other classes when your main becomes tiresome? Personally, I only have one char with gear and it's not even that good. There is no way I will be able to afford to gear another char unless I blow lots of RL cash! In D2 LoD, I had at least 4 end game playable chars or more. Not so in D3; it's not an alt friendly game all due to absurb AH costs and extreme rarity of decently stated items.

Drop rates....I feel this game drops way way to much trash. 99.999999% is either vendor fodder or in most cases; not even worth picking up. This is a far cry from D2 where even low end runes/gems/jewels/legs/set items/ethreal/socketed blues-whites-eth/charms/etc have trade worth since they can be used in crafts and stuff. Crafting here is way to costly and produces junk. Next patch is supposed to adjust this a bit but on other hand it's all BoA so what's the point? I fluke and make a nice item costing 100s of mill worth of combine yet I can't even trade/sell it? Not that they are looking to be BiS like they say, odds that happening is less than winning the lottery regardless.... /meh.

The AH is another fail imo, they wanted to cut out the third party black marketers which it has, but it's also given them complete and utter control of the economy thus driving prices through the roof. This alone has driven a good portion of the people who bought the game away and that is not good no matter what the trolls say. I really really think that having a RL money AH is a down right terrible idea. I hate the AH even though it's the only place I can get gear from. I certainly don't get it by, you know....actually PLAYING the game. I really don't enjoy playing a virtual stock market camping an AH interface all night long to gear up. It's not 'fun'.

W/e. To me, where they went wrong was the fact that they had 10 YEARS of D2 history to go from but instead they threw most of the features and great mechanics entirely out the window in the sequel. D2 LoD is still > D3 in every single way, even right down to BNet 1.0. The only improvement I see here is the graphics, other than that; a 10+ year old game is still superior. If they did a direct copy with D3s engine, I bet my hat it would sell 10s of millions of copies easily.

Simply put, D2 LoD was near perfection when it comes to a great and rewarding ARPG to play...one that I played off and on for 10 years straight, even to this very day!

Only way this will change is if Blizzard seriously wants to make this game great, but I feel they won't b/c that will cost MONEY which means dipping into profits. No, can't do that; the suits would get angry.

I hate to say it but it seems like I got Kotick'd in D3. Feel free to prove me wrong though, infact I pray every day they will.

D3 is not the true successor I was hoping for, it's like a cheap knock off made to cash in on a popular and much love franchise......?
Edited by fixit#1698 on 1/23/2013 8:40 AM PST
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Diablo is about finding gear and TRADING. And the auction house is the next logical step of trading. You did NOT find all top end gear in D2 and were forced to trade if you wanted to deck yourself out in top end gear. That is an incontrovertible fact.

If you chose to play self-found in D2, it would take you years, perhaps over a decade, to find everything you really wanted. What would possibly give you the impression this would change in a Diablo game?

Your complaints about the auction house simply shows a stunning amount of ignorance to this series and what it has primarily represented.


first.. diablo is much more about finding gear than trading/buying say what you want..the problem with auction house in d3 is that 99.999% player accepted ah as essential thing to progress, and even blizzard didnt foresee that the only way ppl will get their gear i via AH. And what happens then??? people started to complain...bad drop rate, low stat rolls, cant get legendary/set item, i didnt find upgrade for weeks bla bla bla of course they wont find upgrades because everything they got is from AH and the chance something better will drop in game i so small that is not worth the time spent farming.. and then it comes to a point where the AH is the ONLY PLACE WHERE YOU CAN FIND UPGRADES so dont look for them in game cuz you will NEVER find them. And once you get to that point, any further play will reward you with everything (gold, experience, etc...) except with the very purpose of the game... finding better and better items. And for all that you can thank blizz for creating AH and riun the game with it

second.. i didnt say that blizzard should delete AH or change anything on existing rmah/gah server.. everyone that want to play there let them do so. I was just thinking that it would be good to add another mode without AH and give ppl an option to choose where they want to play, no one is forcing you or anyone else to play there
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Fix Legendary items to have more static stats, shorter randomization stat range, and add fun affixes that are aimed at increasing specific skills for classes, opening up more build diversity. Undo the "we doubled it" drop rate on Legendary Items.

Keep rares at 99% crap, with 1-2% of finding godly item. Use that crap for crafting, essentially gambling.

For funsies, give crafting a 1-2% chance to proc a legendary of that item type.
Edited by Saythe#1826 on 1/23/2013 8:07 AM PST
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It would be much easier to post constructive criticism if I knew what the developers vision was for the game.

It sounds lame... possibly trollish, but I can't discern through actions as to what that vision is, and not just for what they want D3 to be as a game either. I'm talking about everything right down to player characters and NPC's alike.

Maybe the contradictions are from listening to the player base and trying to give us what we want?

Example: Vision for End Game is endless item hunt to fuel transactions for the AH/RMAH.

I need more than one way to item hunt. Running act3 over and over again and having access to all the items in the game doesn't cut it. Dispersing items throughout the game via loot tables... whether they be based on monsters/acts/checkpoints or whatever is a good start. Monster Power has made item levels moot in inferno because at MP1 any monster can drop anything in that huge item window that everyone is trying to get items from.

I need more ways to get items. As long as crafting is 99% random it can not fill the role it was meant to (99 because you do get to pick what base item gets crafted). Our characters are way to affix dependent to use our resources for crafting as it is now. Perhaps adding a "Temper" option to the blacksmith allowing you to gamble money on rerolling/increasing/losing an affix/affixes on our items akin to the enchanter(?) in torchlight or being able to pick more affixes on your craftables (like your doing with the new ones) but add exponential cost per chosen affix versus a free random affix would make me look twice.

I need more items to need. Regardless of the base item, we all need the same affixes. How about adding some more useful affixes to compete with the big 8 (main stat, vit, armor, AR, CC, CD, IAS, LS) such as increase blocked damage, increase dodge chance and increase proc chance (of all things procing, so increasing proc coefficients on skills). I've got 13 equipment slots with 6 affixes and only 8 out the 30 something are worth looking at.
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If you watched that video, you will notice the comments illustrated how much more they were looking forward to that version's graphics than it actually turned out.


Actually it was that original video that sparked the controversy of D3 being too colorful... Especially that rainbow by the bridge (which is still there).

Personally I think opening your post with the graphics issue was a mistake, the rest of your post had a lot more meat to it...

01/22/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Grimiku
We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


It wasn't just finding items that are upgrades that he brought up. He was talking about how even the AH is full of junk because of how unbalanced and crappy the items are in general. And of course all the people that are ignorant of how to value items are getting robbed by selling the good items for too little and not being able to get more income out of the plethora of mediocre items they are inundated with during every play session. It's not just a matter of making better stuff easier to find on your own, it's a matter of fixing the itemization in general.
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I don't mind legendaries not being standard, but I do think the floor on their quality still needs to be raised a bit. Same with weapons.
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i thought this was a great narrative on problems and suggestions concerning itemization in this game

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/media.php?do=details&mid=1102
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You say the game went terrible wrong because they listened to us.....then you post a video of where the game was headed. Yes that video was a teaser video before the game even came out that made a ton of us D2 fans look forward to D3. However when we bought D3 and found out that they took out a ton of those features that they used in the teaser video. We got an entirely different game right from the start. So i guess im not understanding how we took the game from that teaser video is to what it was when it was released. We had no control or say during that time period as the game wasn't even out yet.

After the release It didn't matter, they sold tons of copies and the game was doomed from the start. There were people that was botting and selling items making tons of money on the rmah, once they made out like a bandit and they eventually got banned they didn't care, took the money and ran. Then there are a ton of cry babys that post on this forums. So then blizzard listened to them and tried fixing what they were crying about to try and salavage what was left of the players. Then there is the problem of no end game and lame pvp system, the reason I quit. I was doing the same thing over and over everyday, it felt like work it wasn't fun at all. Once i started playing other games I realized just how much I wasn't having fun in d3. This is the worst gaming community I have ever experienced. Because of that I quit even visiting the forums because every topic is people crying about this and that. I will never buy another blizzard game again, the community sucks and so do the games.
Edited by Equallizer#1696 on 1/23/2013 8:49 AM PST
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I wanted to add my two cents about a major issue that seems largely ignored: The static skills.

I want to invest in skills. This is a major issue for me. Everyone has the same exact character, except with different loot... No replayability per class. Also, you're forced to use specific skills. I want to use the skills that I like and make them stronger so that they become viable, with points or whatever... You know, customization and character progression...

Making all skills equaly viable isn't what I want. It's the same as right now. I want to invest in things, and reap the rewards of my choices. I want to learn from my mistakes, respec(limited), and make other completely different characters of the same class.
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This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


Is that, uhm... an admission that you can't get great gear unless you go to the AH?

I'm not being cynical, I really want to know what you guys think.
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Fix Legendary items to have more static stats, shorter randomization stat range, and add fun affixes that are aimed at increasing specific skills for classes, opening up more build diversity. Undo the "we doubled it" drop rate on Legendary Items.

Keep rares at 99% crap, with 1-2% of finding godly item. Use that crap for crafting, essentially gambling.

For funsies, give crafting a 1-2% chance to proc a legendary of that item type
.


Y
E
S

This is, in my opinion, what is exactly needed to make this game enjoyable again. I want to see this in a patch note, please !
Edited by Theter#1636 on 1/23/2013 9:18 AM PST
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Bring back runes and rune words! Socketing gems get boring when it's all you have to socket. /me misses those d2 runes.
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the game is bad because of greed. Your drops are directly correlated to what is selling on the RMAH.

That's why this game sucks. A loot based game with no loot isn't good.
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Instead, Blizzard sends mixed signals with options like BOA. Well anyone who knows Diablo knows that BOA has no place in this game. The message that sends to players is two-fold. First, that the devs are trying to actively modify this game away from D2 principles; and second that the developers may not actually understand Diablo principles


Another example of what i meant when i said i don't know the developers vision for the game.

well put.
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This game was released unfinished a.k.a as a beta.

/thread
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I didn't actually played Dll so i don't really know how it was like... but from a fast review what i saw that impressed me were the skills tree which i found as a much more adapt way to organize skills in a action rpg game. Skills three actually make levelling less linear and more fun! and even a seemly useless skill fully powered through the level may become uber or useful combined with each other and actually creating concrete new opportunites of different builds, it could make create another charchter worth something so you would have fun replaying the game multiple times to try new builds!

The personalisation opporunites of the skills trees system are HUGE compared to the DIII system. Simply re-implementing this system would make this game so much better than what actually it looks like, imo.

I would like to hear old Dll player on this topic if they agree with me

(Sorry for the awfull english)
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Simply re-implementing this system


Ok is not simply at all... but maybe for the expansion... please
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