Diablo® III

How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

poe
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things that went wrong :

1) nerfs to monsters

2) made all drops ilvl 63 and legendaries BIS

these IMO are the 2 main reason why the game is in such a state right now
everyone remembers the 1st 2mths of diablo right , such huge playerbase , trading , interest.

how and why did it come to this SO FAST.

these are the reasons :

A) with buff to skills , items drops , items ( legendaries )
most gamers are able to clear content with average items. there is no need to trade , ask for templates and tips on how to beat content.

legendaries with only 1-2 random rolls on most easily became BIS.
economy basically tanked really fast.

add in nerfs to monster while buffing items/skills ... really doesnt add up does it.
gamers get bored really fast and they cant even turn to trading/making money

nothing sells , only top end BIS sells.
once the rich purchased their BIS legendaries , they stop spending
sellers cant sell when buyers stop buying ... the sellers stop farming.

so what does it all mean?

B) it means that if diablo3 was kept at the real inferno level , gamers will still be playing , farming and spending.

the tradeoff of helping casual vs gamers is totally not worth it.
casuals come and go , dont spend the time to farm and upgrade items , dont spend the money.

when the gamers leave to the next game .. this is where d3 suffers.
they take their spending power , power gaming , youtube skills somewhere else and u better hope its another blizzard product.

ideally u want the gamers to slowly upgrade and keep trading up/spend on sidegrades.

and the only way people will spend time farming for upgrades or spend money on items is when .... they actually DIE ALOT in the game.

they will never admit its a lack of skills ( look not everyone does the youtube , server 1st , gladiator skill ) but rather a lack of items.

so with this mindset , they either farm more and spend time trading OR they spend money on sidegrades.

so with all these in mind blizzard should actually :

1) make PVE harder
2) bring back more random rolls on items ( legendaries badly played )
3) screw ilevel 63 type items everywhere.
4) stop duping , botting and even scammers.

thanks lol :)

agreed. very well said.
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Posts: 114
This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


I have a Diablo 3 account with 3 characters, but I usually use this one when I'm on public wifi.

Gearing, and skill system is what made me quit Diablo 3

The gear in Diablo 3 is far too random.

Duping of the BEST items, is what made Diablo 2 fun. It made good gear actually affordable by many players.

I buy gear with real money because I don't have time to farm, and I don't want to use bots (because you can actually get banned now) - but at the same time, I want to have fun and kick butt and be good in PvP..... I did that in Diablo 2, and I've also spent a few hundred dollars in Diablo 3......until I realized there is no end, there is an infinite amount of variation, and random gear stats (especially after Blizzard made the new legendaries BiS).
I realized Diablo 3 is rotten to the core.

All the major game changes in Diablo 2 were made SOLEY for the good of the game in mind. However in Diablo 3, there is a mixture of good intentions for the game, and maximizing profit - because now Blizzard is a broker for the sales of virtual items for 15% commission.

In Diablo 2, I was a part of a big dueling community, and all the duelers I know have bought items with real money from 3rd party websites - but again, this is because the BEST dueling items were actually affordable.

However, in Diablo 3, you cannot be absolutely well geared unless you spend over $3,000 - and I think this is where Blizzard went wrong. It's too expensive, and not many people can afford it.

Diablo 3, and the RMAH would have been MUCH more successful, if the very best gears are just as abundant as the very best Duped gears in Diablo 2, and they are not so random. That way, people of all incomes and ages can have fun for a cheaper price. Right now we either pay $20 for pieces of junk and get dominated in PvP, or $250 OR MORE (for example 2 billion gold) to get a single piece of the absolute best item. And most of the time, when it comes to the buying and selling of absolute best items, Blizzard doesn't even get a fraction of this money, because the gold is bought from 3rd party websites and not the RMAH.

Regarding to the skill system - I remember a comment I read from Blizzard North's developer, and he said it best.....It places an overly important emphasis on your weapon.

Anyways, Blizzard may have made $150 from me for the purchase of Diablo 3 and the RMAH, but I doubt I will be coming back to Diablo 3.

Seeing Blizzard's business model and the direction they are headed, I also doubt I will be playing anymore Blizzard games in the future.

I also don't appreciate it when Blizzard screwed myself, and MANY other players when they made the new legendaries BiS, and instantly devaluing all the previous items we bought. I am sure Blizzard lost many of those customers for life.
Edited by Acolytesftw#1665 on 1/23/2013 4:40 PM PST
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This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


let players improve items..

commons > magic
magic > rare
rare > legendary
legendary > sets.

I just don't mean a simple upgrade but more of improving ways to make them better.
say I have a 485int sword and ir has 190 vit. I should be able to upgrade it/reforge it by spending 2 for one to change a state.. int goes to str for example.

3 for one = new attribute etc
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OP post is good
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Legendarys and set items in D2 had preset mins and maxs; the differences between low end and elite is usually not that great compared to here. I find a tals neck in D2 just like most tals neck so the items always has a base value simply b/c of the item itself. In D3, all items have wildy different stats so difference between a bad one and a good one is MASSIVE. This means that say a Lacuni Prowlers with bad stats is worth nothing, yet one with even mediocre stats costs 100s of mill. Items need set base values with preset numbers making them way more similiar.

ie. Lacunit prowlers: set main stat 80-160/vit 60-100/res all 40-80/rw speed 6-12%/crit % 4-8/random 2 other stats.

This can be done however that is needed for balance but atleast the base item is usable unlike now where odds are that Leg has junk stats and totally worthless.

This will mean that elite players will want best of the best, but the average player will find a bad version but it will still be useful....just a bit less than an elite one. This will average prices down and make them affordable to all.


Wow yeah nice point.
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I do have to include that I truly love this game. There are things that need work, sure, no game is entirely perfect. Anyone who constantly says, "this game sucks, blah blah" should just leave and not bring the rest of the community down. There are still people who enjoy this game. The thing is, I am constantly seeing Diablo 2 in the mix...when, it doesn't belong. People constantly comparing the two.. You know, when I played Diablo 2, I never saw anyone comparing it to its predecessor (Diablo 1). I loved Diablo 2, but I would've been slightly upset if it was identical and not innovative. Diablo 3 would've been labeled as just an expansion pack for Diablo 2 and everyone would've nagged and complained about that. You can't win over an entire fan-base. I just wish there were more people to come forward and write good reviews over this game- and not just people who are looking forward to complaining.
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If you take 'Zerging strategy' as a very simple example I believe the total opposite of the OP. They listened to us, but only as a last resort ('Ok we have tried everything - as a last ditch let's see what the players think'); usually for the best results.

Launch - Death timers
Patch 1.03 - *massive* repair costs; Monster enrage timers
Why? "We don't feel zerging is something we want players to do. We don't care if that's how some players WANT to play; it's not fun and not in line with out design philosphy"

Patch 1.04 - after CRIES from the community - reduction in massive repair costs; REMOVAL of Monster enrage timers

Patch 1.07 - removal of death timers

Zerg rushing is back in as a strategy. It just took them 8 months to give us what we wanted all along. No death timers. No Monster enrage timers. Minimal repair costs.

This is simply *1* example. Ultimately when they give us what we want, and have been asking for all along, the game gets better.
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And since the new Diablo Developers have attained the new ability to listen to the community, overwhelming support from the community drove the developers to take a step they did not even ask where could lead. Clearly, the developers at Blizzard North, who created Diablo II, maximized their success without support from the community, but rather, creating the perfect community by using the correct outlook as to how to bring players together to enjoy a game that is balanced.

I completely agree with that.
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Very good read, and I would most definitely play Diablo 3 with these changes. While I would take a different approach on some of the gameplay elements you pointed out, I would be happy to play it.

To me, there are several elements that made my D3 experience as bad.

Item drops are terrible, and the game is actually very hard from nightmare to hell, until you realise you can use the Auction House, I played on day 1, and I took a full week to set foot in the AH. If I knew how easy it was to obtain all my gear to make the game 100000x easier, I would have done it long before that. But that's not the problem, the problem is when you buy your way to inferno, and you hit a wall, where you haven't found a single worthy item, not 1 single legendary, not 1 single good viable and valuable magic/rare, and realize you just can't afford anything on the auction house anymore. That's what makes this game so hard on new players, realizing that in Diablo 3, you just can't play on your own, you HAVE to rely on the whole community to provide you the items you need to progress, unless you want to quit your job, school and grind for the rest of your life to hope to get 1 good item that will get you started, and at that point, unless you want to play the auction house day and night, you will most likely need to do it all over again for your next gear progression step.

Second, and to me, was the most important problem with D3, is the skill system.
The fact that not a single thing in game makes you want to use a specific skill combination other than: A) First idea for your character, which at some point, will make you realize your idea just isn't as good as the common strong builds or B) You read online which builds the best after a patch fix.

I remember making 10 different sorceress in Diablo 2 simply because I had found a new item, that would make a nova sorc' OP! I made an assassin leecher after finding a 1.08 vampire gaze, I also had shaftstop and stormshield, so I had all my character built out for me. In diablo 3, thankfully, we can respec, so no more reroll just because you found something that gave you the opportunity and the idea to have a very good build. The problem is, WE DON'T have anything to give us that motivation in the first place!!! Why not? In Diablo 3, a mathematically good weapon (good damage, attack speed, crit affixes) will be a good weapon for any build. So why in earth, other than just being bored, would a player want to look for a new build? The magic a Diablo 2 was to find an item that would basicly make you come up with an entire new way to play the game. When I found found a Buriza Do back when it was "bugged", I knew I had to reroll a guided arrow amazon instead of my strafe/multishot build. I even had Windforce before! So mathematically it was a downgrade, but I just had to try that new way of playing! This was interesting. It would have been much more interesting to just be able to change spec rather than rerolling entirely, but at least, I could keep enjoying the same class for much longer. And then I found Titan's Revenge Javelin's, or ThunderStroke, either way, it made me want to go javelin style!

You have skill runes, which I think is basically a leftover name to what it was suppose to be. Why keep the name runes if it has nothing to do with what was intended. Runes were an awesome concept simply because it provided what unique items in D2 did. An item that would allow you redefine your whole character if found! Not make it better, you have tons of system already in place for character power progression, but to give a reason for people to look up a second time at the whole skill system, see if they can match spells with the idea you just got by seeing an item or rune drop. And finally, even though Synergy was made in order to make the skill tree system (that wasn't very good btw) more interesting, it was indeed a very cool feature, it made it very easy for players to go mathy while actualy just looking at green titles telling, this spell becomes better, click here.
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i almost fall off my chair , haahahhahahaaha , lol , ahahhahahaha , blizzard try to make player happy , hhahahahaha ,,,,, if some body say Jesus Christ is his/her uncle then i believe it more than what blizzard said .....
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poe^
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What a great post and spot on. I quit long ago after realizing that, despite being a day one player, I didn't get to Act 3 Inferno quick enough to get the booming start I needed and in over 250 hours of playing D3, I got maybe one "good" item that sold for like 18 million. Never found anything else worthwhile and I don't have the time or patience to play the AH game. I, oddly enough, still have several friends who play this game (all of my RPG/MMO vet player friends left LONG ago, just the ones who don't really know any better/different are left). I hear them on vent all the time talking about items and such and many even spent real money. But to what end? D3 has no real depth. There is very little randomness and most people run tight, specific paths over and over and over to what end? I tried to play again not long ago, but it was just not very much fun. The lack of build diversity, boring grind fest, and uninspired loot just caused me to go back to games that I found FUN.

I really wish this game had been spectacular. Granted, I got my money's worth out of it and will never say that I didn't play $60 worth of content, but I wanted and expected so much more. Even with Jay Wilson leaving, I believe, personally, that this game is just too far gone to get to where I would have liked it. Perhaps if they had implemented something like Torchlight 2 "Mapworks", which were random maps that you could play, or something besides the linear blandfest that is D3, it could get back on track. But that will still never change the inherent issues with the loot system, which is and always will be "broken".
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Because "kids" are Blizzards target new market. They are easily satisfied with pretty graphics mindless action. They also like to argue about who has the highest number(ie damage).

Instead of saying D3 failed, its more accurate to assume D3 sold out. Any random person can pick up the game and as long as they have the patience/real cash they can become "L33t".


OP thank you for taking all the time to type that out bro. This quote sums it all up! Blizz sold out hardcore. Just look at WoW...but slowly but surely blizz stopped building a good game for the WoW player base and started creating a new system I called EASY MODE to reel in more people "Casual Gamers" and before you knew it there was little to no epic left and just run through and win everything. Grind a few hours and boom you got a new Epic item. It took me over a year to get my first epic dagger in that game...You know what it felt like to finally get one....IT FELT EPIC. I jumped out of my chair and cheered out loud...D3 has never once even came close to generating even half of the excitement. What a shame.
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i agree it has turn into a certain type of genre that all gamers hate that are truly gamers and it is the word "casual gaming" or other words its for "casual gamer".
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I personally think Blizzard needs to put out an Expansion right now. They have gained a little momentum back and if they add monster resistance, rune slots or something similar, enhance crafting ability( for instance the ability to add gem for a garaunteed stat that coresponds with the gem), class specific items need to have the base stat that powers the class, increase character level and item level using the balanced and slightly less random method of drops as found in D2, at least 2 new classes(one that focuses on AOE and one that mainly heals and buffs party), revamp AH with appropriate value suggestions based on a simple supply and demand chart, and the addition of skill buff items more extensive than what currently exists, then they could rise from the ashes like a pheonix. I believe that this would increase the challenge, reward and overall fun of the game without completely creating a new game. With the elites having resistances I also think they should nerf the drop rate of legendaries on normal mobs but increasethe drop rate on elites and bosses. As a CM wizard I can say that these changes would make cold resist monters hard and arcane resist monsters very hard but would make me want to kill them for the enhanced chance of a "Legit" Legendary item.
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For me the easier route to fixing the game would have to address the lousy shortcuts the dev team took to avoid dealing with the more somewhat complex part of the game system. I'll elaborate. Customization was completetely restricted to items. You don't get to allocate stats anymore. You don't get to allocate skill points. The problem is stats, as well as skills, must mean something. If stats were made complex and intricate, capable of giving different meaningful bonuses to different skills, passives, and aspescts of the game, it would be an outrage to implement auto-stats. Every stat should be meaningful and make the choice to increase dex, int ou str a hard one for the player. The focus on each stat should also allow some specific builds to be possible. Magic/elemental dealing barbarian? Direct damage Wd? Melee Dh? Stats should be a major part in that in conjunction with skills.

The same applies to skills. My s- called hero can defy the laws of the universe and call down from the heavens a mighty meteor to fall wherever I please, but it is only as powerful as the weapon I have in my hand? Skills should draw their mechanics from different aspects/stats, not mainly from items and main-stat alone. This is a really bad design choice. If I can summon a meteor, its power shouldn't come from whatever piece of metal I have on my hand.

Give us a chance to make choices. I really don't get the "control-freak" behaviour behind Blizz's choices. Why not let us gain 1 skill point per paragon level to allocate in different aspects of skills (dmg, speed, radius, cost, cooldown, proc, etc, your choice). This way WE can choose the skills we like and make them actually viable, putting the game much closer to what was promised in terms of viable builds. Let us choose how to modify skills to our playstyle. This would get the game closer to the original concept of runes as items, but now achieved through the miraculous means of skill point allocation. 9-firing magic missiles, anyone?

In short, your attempt to simplify core game mechanics to favour the auction house damaged the game (If every customization is linked to items, the AH is much more relevant than it should be - besides the problem with loot and RNG).The feeling of lack of soul comes also from the feeling that our heroes are mere paper-sheets to which you apply items. And on top of that you give us a crappy itemization, sub-par to D2 and other gamers. There are several threads/videos that address the issues of itemization. It's important, morover, to mention explicitly the issues stemed from the damage of skill being drawed directly from weapon dps.
This oversimplifies systems that could have different relevant dimensions.
The auction house is a problem in itself and I agree when people say that the way the game works now it feels more like a job than anything entertaining.

I believe that as far as animations and sound go, the game is top-notch. But everything else is lacking. Music is almost non-existent, it doesn't add anything to gameplay value. Music should set the tone as much as the graphics. In that matter, graphics should be more gory/dark, at least in dungeons and hell areas. Light radius was a big part in setting the mood, not being able to know what was gonna throw itself upon you trying to kill you.

Overall, aside from the communication issues that are patent, I would say that oversimplification is the main issue of the game as it has launched. One that can only be corrected at great cost, but should be anyways. If the powers to be at blizzard accept that the game is far from what it should be, stop hiding behind its sales success and fgs, DO something. There is enough material in the forums alone to put the game back on track. The record sales should be taken as a huge responsibility towards your customer and fan base, not as an excuse. The only thing that prevents blizzard from doing what is right is the will to do so. Human and monetary resources are there. Do you want to make up for the sub-par product you launched? That is the way to recover from the damage that blizzards reputation took.

Cheers and sorry for my english
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I could make that point much, much more briefly:

Too many junk affixes.
Too few interesting base monster mechanics.
Too many broken boss affixes.
Not enough content.
Edited by TheJackal#1499 on 1/23/2013 11:47 AM PST
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This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


I think the main problem, when compared to Diablo 2, is that in Diablo 2, you could gear yourself decently by doing magic find run and be able to do most of the content easily. You were only really required to trade if you wanted to be Godly.

In Diablo 3, it's a little different. Back in Diablo 2, legendary items dropped often enough and they were good enough to be "standard" gear for everyone... by standard, I mean you can't go wrong with those items. In Diablo 3, legendary items are so rare, they can't really be standard gear. You are required to use rare items as you magic find, and those rare items are 100% RNG. To have a decent character, you are at the mercy of the RNG.

Nowadays, it's a bit better since Inferno got nerfed and we now control the difficulty.


I agree with your response 100%. I also find that legendaries are a bit of a sore spot. I can understand doing keywarden runs and uber runs and Paragon runs - you are at level 60 already - and finding a few decent legendary or even set tiems that you can swap between your heroes or use on your current hero. What i find hard to believe is that there are legendary and set items that are below level 60 and you really need to find those in a 'sweet spot' during your hero career. Once you pass a certain level, those legendaries are meaningless. My point being that it should have an increased drop rate for lower level legendaries/set items being that you will outgrow them by the time you are farming at level 60 - or - get rid of them and let there be better yellows or blues at those lower levels.

Now, before you all cut into me on this, think about it - give a new character one of your hellfire rings and some stashed equipment and you will be at level 60 in about a week or two. this means that you have out-run that level zone for those items in literally a matter of days If you are not using a hellfire ring on a lower character, then that time to get to level 60 takes about a week or so longer - so a month. Face it, even if you spent time farming for legendaries and set items at lower levels, being that the drop rates for those are so poor and MF is usually lower, you have out-levelled their usefullness before even finding them. So really, lower level legendaries and set items are basically useless...
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This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


Hi - I think that we are all owed an apology from the devs that were at Blizzcon. They ALL said that they beat Inferno (before it was nerfed down) on SELF FOUND. Which is a total lie. Tired of the liars and salespeople in blizzard.

edit - I also find it very odd that I can find a 500m ik chest off a white trash mob, yet not a single good item drops off the bosses. It's a boss for a reason, they are difficult and they should reward us for killing the difficult bosses. Diablo? Not a single legendary once and I've killed him well over 1000 times.
Edited by Herbdoctor#1106 on 1/23/2013 11:43 AM PST
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