Diablo® III

How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

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2/3? more like 99/100

edit: 999/1000


9999/10000


99,999/100000
Another "MR SNIFFLES" post. Can you guys please stop crying. It's getting annoying. My kids didn't cry this much.
01/23/2013 01:21 PMPosted by AteUp
Another "MR SNIFFLES" post. Can you guys please stop crying. It's getting annoying. My kids didn't cry this much.


Crying about a factual post.. brilliant. You sir win this threads award for top QQ'er
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This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


i thought that was whole idea behind MP system. AH gods could frolic in MP10 while gear finders could do what gear allowed.

Anyway please bring back post 1.0.5 PTR hardness. High level mp is a joke for us who indulge in AH. I loved how hard it was until u'all nerfed it. Act 3 KW was nigh impossible and very fun. Now? MP10 is a boring grind for me a wiz, no natural damage reduction, freeze or no freeze builds of any sort and even more of a joke for melee classes
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/23/2013 1:38 PM PST
Posts: 8
TL;DR – The problem isn’t what Blizzard is doing, it is what YOU are doing. Blizzard even stated explicitly that MONSTER POWER AND PARAGON LEVELS ARE NOT END GAME - Level 60 is. Your perspective is that the game and drops and quality of drops should be progressing as you increase in Plvl. WRONG. End game is Level 60 and if you actually play it from level 1 to 60 as intended, the game is near perfect. Go play a new hero and don’t use the AH with him, only pick up items. In fact go HC and try it (I did). Your hero progresses perfectly up to 60 and then it breaks. Ironically, THAT WAS INTENDED. Everything past level 60 is bonus content that you can choose to ignore or not, get over it. Admittedly I had personal issues with the game at first, but I changed my outlook as to what I wanted out of the game, and it is now more enjoyable than DII.

Sol,

I have seen your name on more than one post of this nature on the forums and decided a proper response was due – from a community member who feels very differently than you.
First off, you speak of DIII as if it were supposed to be Diablo II with an expanded story and almost no change to gameplay. DIII may be the successor to DII, but they are different games continuing the same story. If the developers had wanted to continue down the DII path, another expansion would have been released, not another game. To touch on graphics briefly, I will say that if you want to play on a POS Graphics engine from 1990, be my guest! That is not DIII, and it never will be. Newer graphics engines are built using a GPU, and Ray Tracers have come a long way because of that - there isn’t really a need to have a Silent Hill(ish) scenery in DIII . I would rather have the graphics lit well so I can see them working rather than have the area be so dark because the graphics are lacking. On top of that, if you buy a game STRICTLY for graphics, you probably are going to be disappointed throughout your entire life, so you might want to rethink your purchase basis (gameplay is important too). I’ve said too much here already moving on.

On to drop rates…I get your point. A mistake was made in Quantity over Quality. This is very noticeable, but it hasn’t eliminated playing the game through and gathering gear to make your hero better as you progress. Actually, that portion HAS IMPROVED to some extent. Since you get more drops, you get BETTER drops too. This is true up to Level 60, but then it breaks when you get into inferno. What really is happening at this point is your character is trying to progress and find better items, but the game doesn’t progress with your character properly. They tried to add MP to compensate for this, but that failed because the %LIFE to %EXP gained ratio is broke – meaning farming high MP levels is a complete waste of time (minus ubers). If they fix that, and it’s worth grinding MP8, then this should be fixed. You will still get a bunch of POS drops, but you will get more exp, which means more drops (and contrary to what you think, more drops does improve the quality of drops).
Now onto your IMBA rollable elite items. If you don’t provide a spreadsheet that has all those data points on it and give me the source of this data, your graph is meaningless and it is not worth arguing. Did you actually perform 10,000 runs, kill all monsters on the map, pick up every item, and plot them the 20,000,000 million data points to get an accurate reading? Because that looks like my 4 year old nephew drew some black dots in MS Paint and then someone else added colored trendlines. Moving on.

On to scams - unfortunately due to the fact that some people are cold and have no morals this is inevitable. DIII did a great job in reducing the probability of being scammed by adding the AH as well adding a delay timer to the trade window and fixing trade window bugs/scams in general. This is entirely on the user, it is up to you not to get Scammed. You can’t blame your IT department if you send your SSN to the prince of !@#$%ia, just as you can’t blame DIII developers if you scammed. It is your choice to partake in a trade. As someone who got scammed hard in DII about 8 years ago, I know the feeling, but in the end I realized I made the decision to click the button. This falls entirely on the END USER.
DIII will crash under its own weight. No. Just, no. The world was going to end on 12/21/12 as well – I’ll believe it when I see it.

Balancing skills and specialization – I finally agree, some work could be done here to alleviate the cookie cutter. I honestly think this would add a lot more value to the game than tweaking drop rates again. The whole idea of the current skill system was to eliminate cookie cutter builds, giving each skill more value, and almost any build viable. Now in theory the way skills are this should have been the case, but in practice that’s not what happened. The fact that there are very specific items with specific rolls that maximize DPS make this impossible, thus cookie cutters came back. That being said, I don’t think it’s really possible to completely eliminate cookie cutter builds. If you nerf end game skills and buff early game skills, people will cheese through the game and get to the end and struggle (complaints ensue). This is one of the few areas that if the developers choose to look into again will actually be really challenging to get right. I think what needs to happen to eliminate cookie cutters is to make items that benefit other builds. For instance, a “Thorns WD” (lots of pets with pet thorns passive) was really appealing to me when I started mine. I came to realize however that there aren’t any good items with thorns once you get to 60. I don’t know the exact value but the max thorns you can equip is very low, so the skills themselves are virtually worthless. Adding a few items with MASSIVE thorns damage would make the build viable. These items could also have other properties that make them viable to other heroes, similar to “The 100th Spear” and the throw barb (albeit is not very viable atm).

Do I still Play? Actually I play more. I recently discovered Alkeizer runs and increased my gold by 40m in 2 weeks. That was more than I got in the first 3 months I played. Regardless, I think the issue is what you are trying to get out of the game (more later). I’m broke as hell, but I’m content. I am not grinding to get 4b worth of gear on my barb. I am playing for enjoyment and doing what makes me happy. The people who are complaining about these things aren’t playing the game for enjoyment, you are playing to reach a goal you set, but your goal is damn near unattainable. Unless you are willing to devote about 20 hours per day to studying the market and flipping items, you can probably just assume you will never have a perfect mempo. Deal with it.

TL;DR – The problem isn’t what Blizzard is doing, it is what YOU are doing. Blizzard even stated explicitly that MONSTER POWER AND PARAGON LEVELS ARE NOT END GAME - Level 60 is. Your perspective is that the game and drops and quality of drops should be progressing as you increase in Plvl. WRONG. End game is Level 60 and if you actually play it from level 1 to 60 as intended, the game is near perfect. Go play a new hero and don’t use the AH with him, only pick up items. In fact go HC and try it (I did). Your hero progresses perfectly up to 60 and then it breaks. Ironically, THAT WAS INTENDED. Everything past level 60 is bonus content that you can choose to ignore or not, get over it. Admittedly I had personal issues with the game at first, but I changed my outlook as to what I wanted out of the game, and it is now more enjoyable than DII.
01/23/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Deadlysynz
Another "MR SNIFFLES" post. Can you guys please stop crying. It's getting annoying. My kids didn't cry this much.


YOU MUST BUY ALL YOUR GEAR WITH YOUR BIG BOY DOLLARS

Lol Even worse you have no gear...
Edited by FallenMolly#1433 on 1/23/2013 1:41 PM PST

Hi - I think that we are all owed an apology from the devs that were at Blizzcon. They ALL said that they beat Inferno (before it was nerfed down) on SELF FOUND. Which is a total lie. Tired of the liars and salespeople in blizzard.

edit - I also find it very odd that I can find a 500m ik chest off a white trash mob, yet not a single good item drops off the bosses. It's a boss for a reason, they are difficult and they should reward us for killing the difficult bosses. Diablo? Not a single legendary once and I've killed him well over 1000 times.


this is the most retarded post i have seen on these forums and its a big lie. WTF are you thinking kid??? are you mad? They owe us an apology for what?? I never heard they said that but i can confirm that they didnt lie because i did it self found too and yes it was before nerf and it wasnt hard al all so stop spreading liees
Because of you and people like you (most of diablo community) this game is what it is today!!! Shame on you idiot!!
Im sorry, but the OP is really not right on any of his points. Sorry you wasted your time OP, seems like a lot of thought went into it.

The changes suggested by the user base HAVE improved this game. It is by far better than it was when it was released.

No, the content does not need to be harder. MP10 is plenty hard.

Playing the AH is now a meta game, like it or not. Its been said before, please do not touch this free market. The OP posted an example of the rich getting richer. Welcome to planet earth OP, where the rich get richer. Noobs should absolutely sell their EFs for 13M. You posted odds of getting good stats on gear. Do you think that changes for legendaries?

And finally, the thing that makes this game different from D2 is the fact that Jay Wilson decided to get clever and "relieve" us of skill points while reintroducing us to WoW. D2 was built around skill points. You got your power from skill points. Your gear didnt give you power. It made you more powerful. In D3, we rely on our gear to give us power. Our item slots are stat sticks. And since we all share the same stats, with the exception of our primary stat, it makes the gear boring. We're all after the same stuff.

Here's an idea. Create new, off the wall legendaries. Create an item that gives me manaless, cooldownless teleport on my right click. (and of course has the requisite stats so that im not gimped since, as I said, we inexplicably need the stats on our gear) Then, after a month, remove it from the drop table. Ouila, you've created a truly legendary item.
01/22/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Grimiku
I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


The two ideas I think are most fun:


  • Buff all affixes that people don't use. And buff items and legendaries that aren't used (including pre-level-60 ones). Make all four attributes more useful for all classes, make thorns do scalable damage, etc. - there have been lots of threads on this.
  • Somehow boost drop quality only for self-found, as in finder bonus ( http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415644229 ). Goal is to make BOTH auction house AND self-found viable and fun. There are lots of ways to do this, maybe the "finder bonus" is that there's some account bound 7th affix you can add through crafting or runes...
First I want to point out in the first post, Sol, you mean "wise", not "knowledgeable". And you use far too many abbreviations I'm not familiar with, so it took me some time to understand 100% of your post, by googleing everything.

However, I agree with most things you point out. I'm sick of people playing Diablo 3 to make "money", buying objects worth 1 to 20 million gold in the AH and then selling them for 350-750 million.

Besides the drop rate for green items or legendary recipes is so low, you get bored of trying to get them.

I reached level 60 and beat inferno right before Monster Power came out, but right after inferno difficulty had been nerfed down following complaints. It was ridicoulous that you had to farm Inferno to get Inferno gear, but you couldn't farm Inferno if you had no Inferno gear. I saw this on my friend's account, he levelled to 60 in 2 days after the game came out.

But when I got to level 60, I played for hours and hours, and I didn't loot excesive amounts of gold, nor good items to farm gold / magic items. And besides, I died so easily with my gear that I even lost money constantly. Therefore, I had to loot Hell so many times to get gold to burn in the AH it made me wonder... how did anybody get Inferno gear in the first place? (to then sell it in the AH at whatever the price) Because the first people didn't have access to gear in the AH, they had to farm it.

I've played Diablo 1 ever since it came out in 1997 (I was 5 back then) and I've been playing it seldomly until a few months ago when I updated to Win7 and it became almost impossible to play it (Thanks Blizzard for a fix on that and only the IPX protocol being available to play multiplayer, not in use since 1945...). And I bought D2 when it arrived on the market here in Argentina, early in 2001, and played it too until very recently. So you could say I'm really accostumed to Diablo gameplay and it's story.

I have only witnessed a worse atmosphere in LoL, where everyone is hostile and unpleasant. But at least in LoL, you start each battle with 450 gold or so, and you farm gold as you kill minions or jungle monsters to buy stuff. Here in D3, I have found it impossible to get past the 1.5 million gold mark just by playing. I find that the only way around this is making deals in the AH, where you can't compete with only 1.5 million. I studied the gem upgrading business, and it's only a deal if you buy Perfect Stars and sell Radiant Stars, where you need about 30 million gold between "raw" materials, recipes and upgrading costs. The rest has a profit which is eaten by Blizzard's 15% tax.

And now I have just found an incredibly unpleasant surprise (which is why I came to the forums in the first place). I'm playing Hardcore now, where things are slightly more balanced due to the fact there is no USD Auction House in Hardcore and therefore nobody can buy gold to troll (still, prices tend to be ridiculous), and I have just found an incredibly unbalanced item. Of course, offered at an initial price of 50 million gold, bid only. I'm sorry for Facebook's poor quality, but you can see what I mean in these pictures:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/58257_4186166807805_1827202541_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/530732_4186166527798_451447531_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/74912_4186166927808_77605013_n.jpg

You can spot that my current dagger, which I bought at level 27 (I'm 31 now) deals 49.5 damage, average. It has a +damage gem (flawless square ruby) on it. It was one of the best available for level 27. I was hoping to find something around 55 or 60 dmg. But as soon as I searched for 1-hand weapons, that "Spectrum" legendary blade drew my attention. I thought it had a radiant star gem socketed in or something when I saw 457 damage. I couldn't believe myself when I saw that it had no sockets, but rather +186-412 Cold damage as one of its stats, when another example shows it usually has 1-10 +elemental damage values.

Whoever found that sword is pretty much invincible through Nightmare and Hell, provided he buys some decent armor as he levels up. And if he sells it, he gets at least 50 million. And he will sell it, because somebody is planning on selling it for at least 1.000 million, surely. Good for them. But what about the rest of the mortals? What about the rest of the people that FOUND "Spectrum" on their own?

How come some items have ridiculously insane stats whilst the rest is pure crap? It's not even that I'm comparing current legendaries against the "Legacy" ones.

Blizzard: FIX THAT. And I don't mean, punish the lucky guy who got it in the first place. I mean, all legendaries should be THAT good. Have you seen how crappy "Goldwrap" is? It provides a big deal of armor for low level chars, but NO stats. No +dex, no +str... What is it for, then?

Look at this other example:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/485901_4186271970434_837091117_n.jpg

I found that WD mask, and I can't sell it even for 10 grand, because it's worthless. I won't even ask why it has a "legendary" tag on it. No, I ask why is that *** on the game on the first place.

FIX THAT!!!
01/23/2013 01:56 PMPosted by havoc
Somehow boost drop quality only for self-found,


you really should elaborate here...if the quality of your drops are boosted and you gear yourself in amazing gear, what reason do you have to continue playing???
Edited by TehArnold#1895 on 1/23/2013 2:07 PM PST
VERY good post!! and I totaly agree with you. Nice work Sol!!! /SALUTE!
Posts: 4
yeah what he said
This 2008 gameplay footage was the best phase ever in the game's development.. as you mentioned the skills were so cool and unique, boss battles felt epic..etc

I wish they had released this phase when they had the chance..

P.S. I still freakin love this game.. and i am so optimistic towards its future updates and expansions..
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