Diablo® III

How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

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Posts: 547
I can't really add much to the discussion that hasn't been made in the last 500 posts, but I must add my voice to the pile. A month after D3 launched I knew that I was wasting my time. I don't say that out of spite or to spit in the face of the men & women who built the game for us to enjoy, but after completing Inferno it became clear what my options were; endlessly farm act 3 hoping for a ridiculous drop, use the RMAH, or go play something else. I invested several thousand hours in D2 LoD and never EVER got this feeling until I reached the highest tears of equipment when my only upgrades were damn-near-perfect rune-words.

To many items are absolutely worthless. I want to hunt for items, not gold. I don't want to have to spend 50% of my time searching the AH either. I want to PLAY the game. Why are class-specific items rolling affixes that are worthless to ANY build variation of that class? Why are legendary's mediocre at best unless they roll certain affixes? Going from 5m to +100m in value? More drops that are better is the key. I don't want higher volumes of items, I want items that are actually worth my inventory space.

Crafting is conceptually a great mechanic, but it again suffers from items being vendor-trash 99% of the time. If I pick up rares by the dozens and they're all completely worthless, what makes you think I'm going to spend crafting mats and raw gold to make more of them? Crafting needs to have a "target" affixes option of sorts, so you can pick what affixes you want to have on a particular item. Then you need a "temper/upgrade" option to improve those affixes on the item itself. You need to be able to re-roll some affixes as well, at a cost of course.

Bind-on-Account items are not the solution. Especially for crafting. Even if BoA ilvl 63 Archon gear rolled with 10 affixes it still wouldn't be worth it. The only things that should be BoA are items similar to the old Hellfire Torch, Annihilus, or some "Artifact" level item that is basically a best-in-slot.

Character skills are obvious and everyone knows it. There are tons of skill variations, but unless you have very good gear (not in the billions, but over 100M) only a couple builds are worth using. Useless skills need to be buffed, hard. I desperately want to use my Barbarian's Ancient Spear ability but it's damage is to low, cool-down is to long, and there is no other effect on it. It's worthless compared to my other skills, which is the generic WW build. If you combined the first four runes together it might actually be worth using.

Monster power needs to scale so that the rewards are proportional to the increased time/difficulty at that respective level. There's no reason to go beyond MP 0/1 unless you're doing key runs or have very high-end gear.

There's more, such as the game not being nearly random enough in it's level layout, desperately needing more content and places to farm, and the PvP mess. Unfortunately I feel that the game requires so much revision, fine tuning, and new content/ideas that it's publisher is unwilling to unleash the D3 team. Which is a real shame because this game CAN be every bit the successor we all hoped it could be. The core gameplay mechanics are there. The rewards and progression is not.
Edited by RedShift#1421 on 1/24/2013 7:18 PM PST
++++1
Redshift,you've summed up the main problems perfectly! hoping and praying the CM's pass this along to the devs,one of the best critiques I've seen yet
A nearly endless list of stuff that could be interesting for Diablo could be named. Some of the first things I would like to see however would be:

1. More significant death penalty in SC
Mostly by losing of NV stacks on death (see 2)

Goal: To make people care more about avoiding deaths and building/gearing a character for staying alive and not just DPS.
In many ways HC is just much more fun right now, since there is a real sense of danger. HC is still too severe though, especially in a reality where disconnects and lag exists, So add some actual death penalty to SC instead!

2. NV redesign
- NV lasts through sessions and acts

- NV stacks to something like 100 - offers maybe twice the MF/GF/XP bonus as it does now when capped

- Also, each stack gives 1% chance for an end boss to drop a legendary item (as in 100% when capped). Completing a quest similarly drops a lvl 63 rare item

- NV resets on death AND when you reset your current quest progression

- Mobs, chests etc. wont spawn anymore after you killed them in an area - until you reset your quests (a bit like TL2)

=> Goals:

a) Rewards players for playing through the full game, and doing quests, instead of farming small areas repeatedly. You would always need to reset the NV stack eventually, just your choice how much of the game you play through before resetting.
b ) Adds a more severe death penalty

c) No punishment for playing short sessions since NV isnt lost anymore

3. Itemization
a) Add more stat types. Especially focus on adding more stats that benefit some builds but not others, to add more variation and differentiation between the gear different specs want.
Such as bonuses for melee attacks or ranged attacks, bonuses for different dmg types, +%dmg against Crowd controlled targets, and certainly not least different types of +skill stats (for categories rather than individual skills, such as primary attacks, CC-skills, defensive skills, summons, etc. Inspiration for the bonusses could be taken from the pre-release Rune ranks.
Example: "+1 Primary attack" affix would benefit all primary skils (such as Magic Missile and Bash) but it would benefit them differently - just like +all skills did in Diablo 2.
However, there should NEVER be an "all skills" affix in Diablo 3. Once again, the goal should be "different stats for different specs".

Goal: There should be items that a specific Barb spec and a specific WD spec would both want for example. There should be items which were awesome for a specific barb spec, while nearly useless for another Barb spec.

Adding more useful stat types would in itself probably also allow for higher chances of potentially good items dropping.
The above would however decrease the likelihood of a dropped item being good for the specific build you use right now. On the other hand it might bring back the concept from Diablo 2, of speccing and gearing around awesome gear you find.

b ) Balance current stats better. The IAS nerf was good! Don't be afraid to nerf stuff if it improves the game!

c) Fix str, dex, int. It only serves to divide items between classes. Items should much rather be divided between specs than classes. A total redesign would likely be needed - but no easy solution here.

Possible solution: Make str, dex and int buff different weapons (str for "big weapons", dex for fast 1handers, int for staves, wands etc, essentially asking people to build their gear around the specific weapon types they have chosen to use.
Since weapon types doesn't really matter in D3 it would be an arbitrary choice of course, but nonetheless a choice that would help separate out items and main stats into their own "niche" (Note: in such a scenario, staves should ever only be able to spawn with Int on them etc. to prevent purely useless weapons from dropping)

Another solution: Spread the 3 stats out between different skills: Str affects some skills, while dex affects others etc. The issue here could be that it would direct people to oly picking skills that used the same main stat - essentially resulting in less options than before.

Or simply to a total makeover, remove all three stats, and make one stat which adds more % dmg, and two others with add dmg and other bonuses in other ways (like the old D3 pre-release system, or what is seen in TL2 for example).

4. More end game variation
Stuff like:

a) Endless Dungeons - with RNG element: Enter an Endless Dungeon in act 1 for example. First lvl use tile-set from act 3 with act 2 monsters, next level use act 4 tile-set with act 1 monsters etc.

b ) Horde mode (endless waves of stronger and stronger enemies)

c) More stuff like Ubers - Such as bosses scaling 5% HP and DMG each time you kill them (and better drop-% of course), until you decide to reset the counter

5) Improved gear progression mechanics
a) Add 1 random affix to items (for a reasonable gold cost) - Possible to remove the affix again, but for a VERY high gold cost (like 10 million gold) if you really want to try again.

b ) More gem types - maybe even allow the players to add 1 stat from an item over to a "blank" gem, in exchange for destroying the item (more gear sinks, hooray). Some restrictions on the amount of such gems in gear would be needed of course.

c) The ability to add sockets to items:
Remove sockets as an affix, and let us "craft" sockets instead. By letting us add a fixed number of sockets regardless of other stats, it becomes easier to make gems interesting without creating imbalances. Would also open up for more weapons to be useful if socket affix weren't pretty much required on them - instead, all weapons would be socketable.
Maybe the current socket affix could be replaced with a "socket bonus" stat, which increase the effect of gems slightly in the item (like +5-10% socket bonus affix, giving 10% extra Crit dmg from a 100% crit dmg gem for example)

d) MUCH better crafting: Different quality types of crafting materials from gear - what if the game could somewhat judge how good a legendary item was (based on the stats it had rolled), and gave better crafting materials based on this? It ould be yet another gear sink, as it would suddenly be interesting to dismantle even decent items.
Crafted items would then become better (higher chances of high stat rolls) based on the higher quality materials were used. For those who played SWG back in the days, you know what I'm talking about!

6) Skill balance + redesigns. Yes it is still desperately needed. For every single skill/rune, it should be possible to answer "How and why would this skill be used instead of other skills?" All skills should do something that makes them worthwhile, even if it is VERY niche, compared to the other choices.

This can never become perfect, but surely it can be better than it is now.

7) Ladders
Note: Ladders are NOT server resets. By ladders I simply mean the stuff you can find on Diabloprogress etc. Just in the battle-net interface, and with a lot more information.
For example: Fastest kills on boss X, fastest full clear of an act, in relation to Idea 4; Highest progress in Endless dungeons, Horde mode, and Boss Scaling. And whatever else could be tracked. Some fun stuff as well.

8) Anti-Disconnect for HC: If you, for any reason, lose connection to the game (DC, alt-F4, anything other than leaving the game normally) it should save your game in the exact state you left it in; your position, your HP, all enemies within 50yards etc. Then whenever you get back, you re-enter where you left. No more risk of DC, and not really exploitable either.
Of course this might be technically difficult to do, but one can dream...
Edited by Shadout#2849 on 1/24/2013 4:42 PM PST
Posted by Grimiku
We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process.


Easy one here..
(1)Eliminate the rolls of str,intel,and dex on Class specific items if its not the main stat for *that* class. Do I jump for joy when I find a great Manticore with 180 str instead of dex?..And how many people actually use the bows with WD skill rolls,Shields with DH skills,etc.. This alone would go a long way towards making more items useful!

(2) Since damage is the overall main stat ALL classes look for,why do we find L63 weapons with otherwise great stats and 200 odd dmg? Maybe address the elemental damage rolls so they actually add something?

(3) 2 hand weapons other than Skorns are virtually useless unless rolling similar stats,and the damage isn't much greater than top end 1 hand weapons.Why? Especially when they seem to account for a large percentage of the drops.

well,you get the idea,that's just weapons,lots more could be said about armor items as well.

Itemization in general is broken,there are far too many useless affixes,or just plain low rolls of the useful ones! We don't want more rare and legendary drops we want BETTER drops,even if that means reducing the drop rate dramatically! When 99.999% of what drops (that's just rares) is vendor trash,it's awfully hard to upgrade without the AH!
Please choose something to do about the itemization,for 8 months we've been asking for just that,not more drops,BETTER drops!
PvP released 8 months too late, the itemization is still absolute garbage, no world PvP, no waypointing between acts, what can I say.. I'm seriously going to have problems sticking to this game instead of Path of Exile...
Posts: 47
So I am understanding that the problem with legendary items, is that the same item will have extremely different stats. I totally agree that a legendary item should be more similar. Andariel's Visage 1 should be very similar to Andariel's Visage 2. Minor stat differences (70 dex vs 90 dex) are fine but stuff like 50% to trigger vs 25% to trigger and one having 4.5% crit vs other not even adding to crit is complete bull!@#$.

I am fine with legendary drop rate as it is but none of my legendaries are good. At least 19/20 of legendarys found it mp1 inferno should be great and at least 9/10 on mp0 inferno should be great. I don't care if the drop chance goes down just a bit but the quality needs to go up. Also legendarys of the same type should be more consistent with their rolls and stats.

Another thing is to give unique aspects of legendarys and make them awesome. For example, the poison nova of andariels visage should be really powerful.

There should be gear for specific skill builds. For example, an arcane orb offhand that makes regular orbs go nuclear with mini chain reaction explosion near impact and gives celestial boomerang effect. This may sound op but there's 10 mp levels letting a guy do mp 8 because his orbs can go nuclear is so much more fun than letting a guy do mp 8 cuz his orbs does more damage. This also goes with the unique aspect of legendary philosophy too.

TL;DR
Same legendarys should have more consistent rolls
Quality of legendarys needs to improve.
More unique aspects of legendary.
Unique aspects of legendary must be super strong.
All legendarys useful but some more useful to others.
Posts: 671
It's not that Skorn, Manticore, Cataclysm, EF are so good, it's that other legendaries are still crap.

I don't know how those new weapons were designed, but to me it feels more like a bunch of people going "hey I think item X would be much cooler if it did this", but nobody actually bothered to play a game and switch between all the items they created giving each item good to near max affixes.

That way, they would've noticed that The Grandfather were severly gimped compared to the current BiS and they could've made steps to rebalance them.
Edited by SPLERDU#3201 on 1/24/2013 5:35 PM PST
This

http://bit.ly/PBqFS7

http://bit.ly/WpVUwK
Like the direction Mith is going. Maybe not all but some have solid ideas I like to agree as in paragon stats, or even lower cooldown times.
I just think we are cutting the game short, it even hasn't it's expansion released yet. Yet, I have been only playing since Oct. Due to God damn Afghanistan, but that's it. I played D2 for 7 months when I wasn't out doing patrols, wondering how lucky I would be if I could play D3 here.

I think people are trying to replace the feeling that games use to give them. I dont think its all the video game industries fault. To this day I still play UO on free shards, Police Quest, Space Quest, Kings Quest, Monkey Island, ETC. hoping to get back the excitement that games back 97-2002 brought to me.

I have came to conclusion that maybe I'm just getting old. Out growing video games. I would never find my self playing sport games a few years ago, now I'm glued to NHL 13, NBA2K13, Madden 12 (13 is nasty) and others. Games genres that older friends of mine played when I was younger.

I enjoy Diablo III for what it is. A beer drinking, click fest, time killer. The RMAH is cool, I have used it a few times, Sure beats some of the prices for items in the GOLD AH. All this my blah blah has blah blah dps/crit.... who cares.. Enjoy the game for what its worth and take you time. Not cram the game into endless nights of Monster and oreo binges.

My worthless .02
]
I can't imagine new sales are going all that well. Anyone that doesn't buy D3 blind will see all of the negative reviews and opt for a different game. Keep your current players happy seems the best strat to maximize profit. Enough with these micro patches and micro fixes...go whole hog for God's sake.
We want monster density increased...increase it 1000% for one day and make us scared to leave New Tristam without a full party.
We want pvp...make a week of full pvp mode including friendly fire.

Players would come back in droves for these kind of challenges, and would make the game fun again. It seems the devs are scared of breaking the game by making any kind of real changes...break the damn thing and see what happens
TLDR, but dont you dare blame "us" for the fact that they didnt test the game before launch and decided to make it pay2win with a RMAH and only profitable to play AH tycoon instead of from playing the game as it should be. The tarnishing of the Diablo name is all on Blizzard, not us.
The auction house is rubbish, should cancel.
I agree that Rares / Legendary items should have specific stats.... Seeing a Bow/wand with over 200 STR is classic. :)
Posts: 2,494
To me, the biggest problem in this game is the MMO style of itemization. I mean this infographic really sums it up: http://postimage.org/image/cq4igbkh7/. As an actual example, Mempo is the best helm in the game, for everyone.

This genre of game is not structured the same way as the predefined loot tables and encounters in WoW and other MMOs lend those to be, but unfortunately, the items are virtually identical in style. What this entails is that instead of having options and builds, you mostly just end up having numbers and looking for bigger numbers. For example, it's not like any build would be sad getting trifecta or hexfecta jewelery, but more importantly, there's nothing else to look for. As someone with a bunch of actual different builds in D2, this style just doesn't appeal to me. What is there to build around in this game? All the characters could essentially copy-paste items with a primary stat change and be done with it.

I don't see how they could stop having items as just stat sticks, so, unfortunately, I doubt I'll even play d3 again. And the this patch, I read about having more BoA items, which just seems to carry on the MMO style of items (not to mention being stupidly expensive to make), and I just have to ask myself, "Was D2 even the starting point of this game?"

On the actual implementation side, the combat is very fluid, and the graphics are good. The cutscenes are rendered well, even if their content tends to suck, but I blame the incredibly childish-style story for that.
Sol you have nailed most stuff that is the problem with DIII.

I remember the days when i played DII and LoD. Back then I was really into all different types of assasins. My favorit one was a kickersin. I used to have a guide on the eu forums back then how to create them and what to think of. back then everything mattered how you spent your core stats and how you spent your skills. I had like 6 different types of assasins. The first 3 where projects and the other 3 where final results of the project.

I spent countless of hours finding the right type of white and soc item to create my perfect items thru imbue and or runewords. Etheral items and so on is also something I miss. I also balanced my stats so i had the perfect set up to be able to equip the items (str) and so on. That was part of what was fun in the game and what was in some ways ruling out the RNG. You could imbue a white pair of starter boots and it did make a differance. The items you got from each zone where propperly matching the content not like it has been in DIII.
kinda weird you typed all this out...
Where is my Shako?
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