Diablo® III

How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

主要问题还是MF获取的装备(次装备指真正能有所提升和有用的物品,而不是玩具)和MF所花的时间不对等。
次要问题,应为无法获得好的战利品的刺激,暗黑3的核心没有,造成游戏后期玩家不知道在玩什么,而且游戏内容又少(就算你再添加一些小修小补得内容也会有厌倦的一天)后期玩家MF只有一个感觉--无聊
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If you give me the drops that is entirely useless for me, how can I play the game with enjoyment?? and what is the purpose of killing monsters??
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The main problem I have with gear is that there feels like there is no good curve to getting better. While random drops keep you looking there is a point when looking gets too bad to keep up and it becomes boring.

If I do a run on Inferno Act 3 what are my odds on seeing an upgrade?

I admit my main character I got the gear off of the AH. This was because when I hit level 60 I could not keep up, at all. My Wizard that had mostly the same build for the last 15 levels (only a little changing here and there) suddenly stopped being able to survive. After research I learned of the CM build and the gear it REQUIRED.

While I went along with the CM build and needed equipment, I have only found one or two pieces of gear I use. everything else I got off of the AH, (I have a decent for me, way to make a mil here and there a day but obviously this is a problem). To play the way I want I need Billions of gold. just because the gear I can afford only has a stat here or there that I need and never in decent amounts.

Now I am not asking for free gear or guarenteed drops, Inferno and MP was done better then D2 was in terms of drops so that we don't have Bloody Hills runs running constantly, and no hoping to get a decent item to trade for an SOJ so you can in turn trade it off for a good item.

The AH does its job, while it needs polish the balance between drops and the AH is there.

---

The problems that I see with current drops, crafting, and events, is that it all boils down to one core problem, the grind curve.

As it is in my experience (I have more then this account before you point at it, this is just my current main), the curve of getting into Inferno is painfully sharp. if one assumes no AH items one can expect to still be wearing gear from as low as level 20 (I had 2 on my DH on this account) realistically the gear we get should, even randomly, be replaced at a somewhat steady rate. It is not happening.

This ties into the difficulty as when you suddenly hit Inferno or perhaps late Hell and your gear that got this far is no longer helping.

Further there are certain builds needed to be used. When I was watching Blizzcon they talked about how you could play "your way" pick this skill or that and get away from strict builds.

The skill structure is there to a degree, the problem is that the gear and the skills interact in certain ways that cause builds to appear. I am not saying builds are bad, far from it, but I feel that the build should be something based on play desire not loot drops.

If you look at things worth a lot in the AH it does have a pattern, and its an obvious one, stats that are needed most or rare, are worth the most. Now remember the AH is where Blizz makes the money to keep devs on the game, so I am not for anything that nerfs the AH too much, but more interactions on the AH at smaller scale is potentially the same as small interactions at large scale.

Thinking of the skills worth the most: Attack Speed, Life on Hit (or Life Steal), Crit chance, skill cost reduction, resistance, crit damage.

The desire to have these are what make them cost so much, alone they are not much but together they start costing alot. A perfect Crit chance roll on an otherwise crap magic, or rare as most people including myself at 60 ignore magic, item tend to become worthless.

What we have is a basic problem of how to fix the drops so that these stats are less... required. Nerfing the stats is an obvious solution with even more obvious problems. Making other stats more appealing, is possible but while I give blizz props for trying with the gem, I really do not see it being enough, their explaination of more damage on faster attacks is like a squirt bottle to put out a burning kitchen, its not enough and not soon enough.

The Gem problem fails to account for two problems, first is that 60% of the community if not and probably more already have most of their characters already geared at 60. These people do not want to replace everything just to take advantage of a new shiny gem in one piece of gear, and make no mistake it will be most if not all gear needing replacing. Pluse given how skills are set, so much procs on crit that I do not see that being enough.

So we still have the same stats being prefered in the AH.

Perhaps changing the random drop mechanics so these stats proc more and together more?

This also has a problem of forcing certain builds, if all we get are stuff for certain builds then we all will be forced to play certain ways. So this too is out.

So far we eliminated:
Nerfing items
Buffing a Gem
and Changing drop mechanics

What about the skills, we could change the ones that proc off of crit. I think its safe to say that enough of the player base would not like this, so it too is out.

Thus we are left with the only effective solution but not an easy one. More skills and more drops. What we need is skills that are good and par with the crit procing ones and gear options that we can access consistantly. and I do not mean for them to be BiS but half way there, but ones we have to work towards. also for such items to work they can not have any random to their stats, I will restate this, these middle of the road items must have Static stats. as a trade off they can not be very easy to obtain and require about as much time to get as it takes to level to 60 at present. What this would do is allow people to aim towards other builds and thus weaken the hold certain stat combinations hold over us. Equally so we need skills that will work with some of these other items and not be dependant on crit.

Care must be taken with such a change, and the work towards such will sadly likely be seen only in an expand.

But this is what I feel is the state of stats based on the OP

(as a side I really miss the Runeword gear from D2 it was a good idea at the time, but I doubt it could work here; though I am spoiled in D3's interface.)
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The OP has outlined a lot of the problems succinctly.
I am reposting another reply to a similar post that I made recently.
It simply the reason why I liked D2 and would play it all the time versus a few hours every week for D3. Major exception: I love the new graphics and storyline (I did not focus on the D2 story that much, but D3 made it pretty interesting).

What I miss most is :
1. Items: You got it right. Since the last patch, it's either a legendary or crap most of the time. But I still pick up all rares thinking what if ...? I miss my Enigma teleport and the Breath of the Dying I scrimped so much to get :((

2. Affixes : Each patch keeps neutralizing affixes. As a barb, before 1.0.3 I needed AR and vit.
I had a good 17k DPS, hoped to make A2 inferno ... Then they nerfed it, so we focused on str and CC. Wow, 50k dps !!! Then they have BiS legendaries so we want IAS now and rares are crap. Hmm, 150k DPS .. now what ...? This is because we deal only in 5-6 affixes. I would love some real elemental affixes.

3. Skills: I used to feel skilled while playing d2. Put on shouts, keep hot keying diff stuff, keep a tab on potions, it was great... Now, I can do full A3 MP7 runs while chatting with a friend on the phone (earphones) .. I do that almost every other run .. Coz it's not challenging skill wise...

4. Content : I did get quite bored of Baal runs and never leveled past 95. But Baal runs were fun coz they were fast and the monsters were varied. Plus I still had tons of fun trading. They could implement a chatroom lobby on the side of the AH as an alternate to selling, that would be tons of fun. I do a few runs every few days, what I would love most is an infinite randomized dungeon .. Or a random lottery of current D3 levels u enter WP at end and u randomly get teleported to other WP that u must finish etc..

5. Events: I played this game called ragnarok ages ago and ppl say wow is similar.
I would love to see guilds, weekly / holiday events, castles etc..
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91 Night Elf Rogue
5375
Posts: 119
KIDS....My point of view is not going to be admired let me tell you ok<<<<< THEY ARE OUR PROBLEM and FUTURE!!!!Dissin them NOW and brutally downgrading them into a minority of hated and blamed individuals is a SHAME on ALL ADULTS and those that say they are. Games were created for all when I was growing up but as a KID we had the most fun. WHY...I think because our minds were full of wondrous imagination were as today WE put pressure on KIDS to respect,pay attention etc yadda yadda...
I have played many online games and Nintendo(or PS3) and with our children..grandchildren the wondrous eyes and minds in action is a trill to observe.We moderated our play time with RL things to do as we felt Gaming was like choc cake something as a reward and enjoyment to have.
From playing WOW and this game and GW2 and a few others we have seen the presence of millions of KIDS and their ability to play and help and teach at the level of an Adult has been amazing to be apart of. This is the generation and these so called monsters,brats whatever are no different than the Adults who bad mouth each other on the forums showing them this is the way it should be!!!
All the KIDS I have met and talked to playing D1-2-3 were totally entralled in the adiction of gaming and its instant rush of adrenilating playstyle which left them in dremland as they slept,went to school and confided in one another on what was good bad or indifferent.
Finally I have NEVER played a game so perfect as Chess or Monopoly that can teach a KID something positive that may be useful in their lives. As I see it Gaming has the same ability to do the same in a reward of KIDS looking out for OUR FUTURE in a good way.
Stop with the disrespecting of Kids that is as they say in ALL of us and we should set a path of proper game play, lacking all the obsenities and hate for the makers and its functions of how to treat us better because we pay the money.
Buisness is money and were ALL apart of it dont smear a GAME because us KIDS want to have FUN!!!
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There are a few problems with the game but none of them would be so major were the central focus (and problem) of the game sorted out. That problem is quite obviously loot.

1. Random good, too random bad--chances of getting the right stats rolled on a piece of gear let alone a good amount of the right stats is up in the hundreds- or thousands-to-one odds.

2. Loot drops too much and also too seldom. Huh? Well I get nearly two bags full of rares every run, and after identifying all of them I end up with 80k gold from my vendor. Good stuff never drops. Fix #1 by limiting the stats that can be on certain items, and you can lower rare drop rates to fix #2.

3. Legendaries drop too seldom and also too dumb. I don't think anybody at any point in progressions needs a 490dps Pus Spitter. But you got two in a row, and those were your only legendaries to drop this week. Ouch. Dumb luck? Must be RNG.

4. Saturation. There is no escape for a good item--it drops, it's used, it's sold, it's used again and over and over again. It never leaves yet it never becomes obsolete. And the more good drops that happen, the more people are carrying them around, the larger the price begins to jump between a well-rolled piece to an awesomely-rolled piece. And therefore the less your 5% CC item is worth over time while your friend's 6% CC one retains its value or even increases in value. But wait, that was the only good drop you've had in two months and now it's only worth 10M? Don't worry, there's always that next drop...unless there's not. You need some way to recycle items or put some out of commission. Then you can have a steady flow in, steady flow out. Now you've got a trickle in, brick wall at the end. Put the item in the game but never let it out. This isn't like WoW where you have major new patches and new and better gear all the time and even expansions once every two years to restart the economy.

Because all the value in this game is tied to commodities, there has to be a way to also remove them from the economy or at least cycle them around without end. BoA is a bad idea firstly because it's against the spirit of Diablo and secondly because once you get a BiS BoA you stop buying new things for that slot. But wait, because any of your characters can use it you've also lost a reason to buy stuff for those guys. My Monk stuff works just as well on my DH, and so on. You've taken away reason for players to buy more things. Bad. (Yet patch 1.07 is doing just that... ugh...)

Also--spent all weekend playing and got 1 legendary. Like 12 hours of game time. No salable rares at all. And you guessed it, the one leg I got was a 490dps Pus Spitter. Ok, I get it, RNG--but why is that RNG must be tied to the AH? Well because if there were so many good items dropping at once then the economy would collapse entirely. But why should I play if I have no chance at good drops? You get the picture.

How do you fix it?

There needs to be a way to toss 5 crappy legendaries in a magic box with some gold to get a chance at a new legendary. A way to sweep all the crappy legs out of the game without turning them into brimstones. And give people another carrot on a stick. "Another Strongarm Bracers? Oh well, into the pot you go, let's see if you can make me something useful" instead of "Son of a, another brimstone..."

This will clear out the AH a significant amount, allowing more legs to drop, increasing player interest, and provide, at least at the bottom end of the legendary spectrum, a revolving, moving, organic economy. Brimstones will go up in value to the point where you'll have to make in interesting choice about whether to salvage your item or drop it in the pot.

Then you've got to limit affixes on some rares in an effort to give people a chance at something decent. And then you can stop them from dropping all over the place. The one thing worse than no good items after a day of playing is no good items despite getting over a thousand rares to drop during that time.
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This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


Absolutely the biggest killer for me in D3 is the AH, you guys should never have implemented it for the reasons you state above. There is little to no excitement or feeling of being rewarded from your loot drops. The AH also completely stuffs around with the games economy for obvious reasons.

The replayability is also very limited due to the linear nature of the game, very little if any at all randomness to the levels just promotes boredom in a game like this - as such I couldn't be bothered finishing the 2nd playthrough, I was already over the game. Great cinematics, I liked the story - its a Diablo 'game' not a candidate for an Academy Award, the story is fine. Having said that though, I found the first playthrough enjoyable in terms of story but replaying them just made me sick of it. First playthrough was also WAY too easy.
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I would have had 'story mode' as your first playthrough and then randomness, open levels, other bits and pieces, different challenges and surprises for subsequent playthroughs.
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I remember some of the preview videos and Q&A with Jay and other members of development through 2011-2012 and remember specifically Jay saying in one interview that the ``illusion of control through stats point allocation AkA you spending points in Str-Vit-Erg-Stam etc etc`` was faulty and didn´t achieve anything other then that illusion.

Now to some degree I can agree with that, to some degree!
I think on the other hand that it was one really vital and crucial point as to what made Diablo 2 Characters Unique and personal.

Because in D2 you have to manually allocate different amounts of points to different attributes depending if you for example wanted a defensive character with maximum protection.

Someone at Blizzard argued then that Diablo 3 is a successor and that some features where to be exchanged with new ones since it is it´s own game and not a duplication with enhanced graphics.

I want to instead ask why fix something that aint broke?

Instead of having Automatic stat point allocation and the rest being stats on gear bring back that part of the old system where the attributes comes from dinging up and letting you decide and to have these stats points removed from the loot and perhaps add other affixes so that 99% of the lewt is not automatically devalued as Sol put it.

Also +1 to Sol for making such a good thread!
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I'd love more randomness, and balance throughout the acts so that u dont always have to farm act 3. Also, the gameplay trailer from 2010 feels so much more clean than the current game. Nothing is complicated etc. And as the OP mentioned, u gotta buff alot of spells thats currently useless. So that they are good in some way, if so i'd love to try out some new builds. But most of all i want a more randomized world as i said before. It becomes so much more fun if i see some new maps that i havent seen before and experiencing new stuff.

Otherwise i think the additions u guys have made to the game so far has been awesome. Keep up the good work Blizzard!
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The replayability is also very limited due to the linear nature of the game, very little if any at all randomness to the levels just promotes boredom in a game like this - as such I couldn't be bothered finishing the 2nd playthrough, I was already over the game. Great cinematics, I liked the story - its a Diablo 'game' not a candidate for an Academy Award, the story is fine. Having said that though, I found the first playthrough enjoyable in terms of story but replaying them just made me sick of it. First playthrough was also WAY too easy.


Totally agree here.

Few problems I would like to mention.
First, it's how the story was directed:
The first playthrough was allright, however I found out the great demon lords were all "just talk" throughout the act, and don't offer something I want to anticipate from them. They spoil too much information and tension. Act 2 Belial "The Lord of Lies", was unable to create better lies than what I could create in RL. Act 3 Lord of Sin talks too much, in addition act 3 feel too short, hence the tension it was supposed to be there was not felt. Likewise, Diablo on act 4 also talks too much, that it lowers the quality of the so called "Diablo". Some nice quiet time to immerse in thought should be good now and then, too much nonsense = middle grade school disease. Great guys don't talk a lot, they act greatly, Great Evil Boss should do the same. The story could be directed much better, it got the potential, but what done is done.

Now the content:
1. Much different from D2, D3 is not an open world. You travels between acts, making the range you can roam from to be rather small. Even if the whole act itself is vast, the linearity is very linear. To be honest I like D2, where I can wander here and there and be immersed with the world itself.
It's hard to fix this issue with the currently designed D3, though seeing new randomly occurring vast areas in various acts would be nice, and of course tempting rewards should be there. For example, the new Area 1 Boss is designed to % drop specific items, the new Area 2 is designed for challenge run, Diablo on act 4 could drop Diablo specific legendary, etc.

2. I complained previously that the whole demon lord is all talk, it was true, and in certain sense it spoils the fun. The only exception was in Inferno, before it's nerf, and after DH's SS nerf patch (1.02).
Before proceeding, I need to let you know that during those time I played as a DH and was far from being well built.
All the boss and stages (such as "Soul lasher" mob, "Hulking Beast" mob, etc) before Inferno nerf was challenging, as a DH I need to make sure I don't make even a small mistake (else 1 shot killed). The learning curve in Inferno as DH was very challenging, and each corner for blind spot made me wary, and in a sense, thrilling.
With all these challenges and the idea of "reward" (When I was still unaware of the drop tables) it makes replaying to be very interesting ideas, even with all the linearity.

=====

Ex. For learning curve.
The first few times was similar to the video I posted below, skills for diablo kill only (Disc build).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT6xHpHDOnY
After few times, Evolve to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gufI85Kw170

And after i got more confident, I went for NV collecting skill set of cold damage + Nether tentacle, and more dps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og3o8WdhHec
This built no longer viable due to existence of MP, which prioritize damage over any other else, and Nether Tentacle nerf.

=====

Note that: The idea of "challenge", "Decision making", "Rewards" was there which makes the first few weeks of D3 to be fun.
The current D3, offer no such challenge, I tried doing Diablo run once more with my old gear, and it's comparatively much easier, even after losing touch from 6 month away from diablo 3.

Now that I spend more of my time more in D3, I realized that all those things were slowly removed as a DH player. The idea of Rewards was not as expected. Each patch nerf Inferno. MP10 not worth the challenge, as a DH, it only offer very tanky Boss and elites with no real rewards, and DH ignores damage nowdays (except reflect).
With the introduction of MP and given skill set of DH, I, as a DH player feel that the only built left is to prioritize damage over everything, which singles out all the possible built to only one build (for farming speed purpose on MP2~3), which is CC, CD, aspd, and obviously some survivability. Skills like Mines, turret, most runes, become utterly useless. All items thats gave none of the above are junk items (includes elemental, especially cold damage weapons), as the skill sets and necessity for damage gave no room for other possibility.

Please do note that, I'm only talking as a DH player, and not as representative of all DH player at that. I understand that the patches were a major progression for other characters beside DH, and I'm not saying to undo it. I knew DH that had 150k~300k++ dps before all the MP and inferno nerf patches and therefore owns Inferno very well, and for them, MP might offer good changes. What Im trying to imply are "what was missing from Diablo III" and hopefully the staffs could capture it.

3. The games lacks worthy gold sink.
In my opinion, for the to be implemented BoA, i thought it is best if the product could be sell to AH and hence not BoA. As long as someone creates it (gold sink), and AH it (15% gold sink), it will serve it's purpose well. Not to mention, the ability to sells them will definitely create incentive to craft these items (hence effective gold sink).

For the matter of rewards for playing the game, as mentioned before, rather than the easy idea of BoA or cheap easy ideas such as Hellfire-ring, creating more free to roam stages on each act will be much more rewarding than BoA. Please create more worthy run rather than just act2 run, act3 run, key run, uber boss run, etc.

Most player that understand them, knows very well that key run and uber boss run is waste of time compared to lottery grinding. In this case, you just need "as you need" hellfire-ring. Once you got them, there will be no longer any incentive to go for those run. Not to mention, the idea for key-run is very tedious and offer no challenge (a.k.a boring).

Edit add:
Please understand, people loves Diablo2 even nowdays not just because of Nostalgia or memory or such thing, but it's because it was the best at that time.

Sorry for bad english.
Edited by NuEloS#1547 on 1/27/2013 12:03 PM PST
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What we have is a basic problem of how to fix the drops so that these stats are less... required. Nerfing the stats is an obvious solution with even more obvious problems. Making other stats more appealing, is possible but while I give blizz props for trying with the gem, I really do not see it being enough, their explaination of more damage on faster attacks is like a squirt bottle to put out a burning kitchen, its not enough and not soon enough.


You really can't "fix" drops in the current system. The fact that item DPS directly effects skill DPS will make it very hard to improve itemization. If you look at the affixes from D2 or the new PoE, and compare it to Diablo 3, on the surface there isn't a huge different. But with how weapons interact with the hero differently in D3, the system kinda breaks down, and distilled. Every weapon must have the most and highest quality affixes that increase DPS. So instead of a way to add flavor, or customize a build that wouldn't be possible without a certain gear set, items have become just stat-sticks that measure different tiers of power. This is why people get this feeling like it's hard to find upgrades. Because they aren't looking for a cool weapon that has another interesting combo of affixes. They are just looking for bigger numbers.

If Diablo 3 plans to improve on itemization, they have to do something radically different, or go backwards. It can't stay how it is now.
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The problem with D3 is not the items.

It starts with taking away the customization of stats, then continues with taking away the option to place additional points in specific skills with the complete removal of the skill tree system. The skill tree system was ingenious, removing it was a retarded move!

The charms system yet again was an ingenious system, removing it was also yet another retarded move!

Removing both the charms system and the skill tree system has made it so characters regardless of class can only receive higher dps from their character level and the stats on their armors & weapons and not from the actual base of the characters ability/skills. Previously in D2 you could pump all of your acquired skill points into a skill of your liking, or spread them out as you pleased in one, two, or even three of the three different skill trees for each character class. Creating much more diversified character types, even within the same class.

The Gem system has been screwed over. Sure now your gems can get several levels buffer but the cost is ridiculous to max any gem out and you basically have to farm forever just to do it and on top of that the types of gems is now limited to 4 types and their uses are also nerfed with the same buff except for a helm or weapon slot.

The amount of sockets available in items is just plain retarded. The gemming system is so limited that it really makes no difference. However, it's still retarded that even inferno mp level gears have the same max sockets available for all gears. No customization whatsoever! Nothing uniquely different in the whole game.

The entire stat system has been completely screwed over, there are practically no uses for stats that are not associated with you character class which defeats the entire purpose of having the stats that do not support your characters class.

D3 FAILS HARD! For having 10 whole years this was the best you could come up with??? Seriously D3 sucks I've been playing D2 expansion lately and it's still funner and better character customization and uniqueness all the way!

D2 Expansion servers are still live, plenty of players on at all hours, feel free to come back to a good game anytime, or you can stay here and keep farming that next 2 billion gold pieces to get that one item that might up your dps a couple hundred or so, LOL! D3 sux donkey di©k5!
Edited by Taranis#1321 on 1/27/2013 11:31 PM PST
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I'd like to say that I haven't played this game in months mostly due to lost interest. I was interested a bit with the introduction of the Paragon system, but it got monotonous fast again. I just logged onto the forums again to see what changes have been made. I'm glad Wilson is gone I guess, because I didn't like the original handling of the game.

I'll be completely honest and say that I used maphack in Diablo 2 and, without it, I wouldn't have enjoyed that game as much. I enjoyed the customization of the enemies on the map screen and, of course, being able to find my objective to find more loot or help friends rush through games. Being able to move between acts using waypoints, selecting my targets, and the chance at finding some nice loot was my constant and prime motivation. Killing cows to find runes and charms was extremely fun.

Bring that type of stuff back and you might find people will come back. You don't necessarily need to bring back the cow level, but the "fun" of murdering cows needs to be brought back. I'll be honest... I was even a little upset in D2 when the focus was taken away from cows. There was just something about blizzard on a group of cows, multishot, titan-throwing with the lightning burst, or pally shielding with the schaefers.... it didn't matter. It was all fun. As long as I could destroy cows. I don't need the PVP. Just let me massacre large groups of enemies and find valuable loot from time to time.
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01/25/2013 02:59 PMPosted by obliterator
In those days you played what was good, not what was easy or difficult because you really didn't have a choice.


Actually, old games are hard because of technical limitations, not because it was "better" this way. Being hard was only a way to artificially make the game last longer than 1 hour.


This guy just shown that he has no idea what a "game" is. I am thinking you are a person born after 1995. If you are not, prove me wrong.
A game is of course limited by hardware, but so what? Does the powerful hardware made a game? Yes, it does influence the type of games that can be made, but the thing is, a game is not a game without it being challenging at some point with skill needed to counter the difficulty. What the current Diablo is offering is totally just catering for dumb kids mashing buttons. And the fact is there are no skills needed at most point as there are just too many "gear check check points" in the game and every spot where people can use for strategic purposes are "nerved", with act 3 tower of the damned ared being the said "nerf target". You say skill, I say u are bu""sh!tting. Nightmarish, fast, reflect damage, mortar that deal hella damage and shoots so fast you need a certain movement speed to dodge, and the list goes on... These are not things that encourage players to concentrate on strategic action play and use of skill.
People can just faceroll everything and anything that dont deal more damage are junk type of mentality is just wrong in Diablo game.
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We need a way to reroll a specific stat on a piece of gear to tailor to our builds and then make that Item account bound. To many times has a self found possible upgrade been messed up by one stat being hurtful to my build.

Oh and A "Noticeboard" option in game like Path of Exile has really amazing feature Im shocked blizz didnt do
Edited by Incog#1709 on 1/28/2013 3:30 AM PST
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im going to say what everyone either does not want to say or is oblivious too

The only reason Diablo 2 was successful was because of mostly duping and also on a lower level botting. Since diablo 3 has pretty much (although not altogether) cracked down on it is affecting players.

Sorry but that is why most people cant get good gear, you never could in diablo2 until people started duping high runes so people could start rolling good gear. it was a cheap way to get the best gear in the game and if you didnt roll it perfect, meh hel rune and go again.

Diablo 3 is pretty much even if you get the piece you want to drop you then have too many chances of not getting the stats you want.

I guess what i'm trying to say is the best gear in diablo 3 and the best gear in diablo 2 are so much different in terms of getting it, it is honestly a joke.

like it or dont, thats how it is
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Firstly, in general I agree with the OP over most points. Discussion, or in most cases, comments is given below for individual items. Time was well spent, and I've read the summary thoroughly several times (unfortunately, the same cannot be said for 30+ pages of replies).

Secondly, I haven't participated in the beta (which may be a mistake, from current point of view), but seeing the manner in which codes were given have made me decide against it.

Thirdly, my firm belief from before the game release was that gold-based economy is doomed to fail - please don't mention 'gold sinks' - pity I don't have all Skype conversations in writing, lots of strong arguments from both sides.

Fourthly, giving the credits - a friend of mine found out a stash of buried posts on another forum, made by highly eccentric person calling himself "Clavdivs, The God", written well and in an unusual style - reminded me of an old collaborator of mine - well, quick-Skype - it was him indeed, under a new name. I'm mentioning it because, after spending a few days reading his prolific writings (he was a story/dialogue writer on that project, huge walls of text...), I've found some ideas similar or identical to my own, some surpassing mine and some I've disagreed with, but giving the credits is a principle of mine, so even when the idea is identical, he published it before I did - therefore the credits are noted and cited from memory, with permission.
Tipping the drop table in the wrong direction
... Many of them suggested that they increased the drop rate, more drops! But the knowledgeable people that understand the true way to make a game work would know that the people that were disappointed actually meant more better drops...
...Back in the old Diablo days, magical items were worthy already, while legendaries were considered godly. This created a balanced and enjoyable system where players were pleased constantly, but sometimes struck with immense joy by finding something special...

Apart from universal wisdom like "fans shouldn't create (base) game", since only a small percentage of them actually know what they're doing ("base" being original, and mods are meant to be fan-made, yet there isn't slightest possibility left by Blizzard), RNG-based set/legendaries were very bad idea.
'Immense joy' (indeed) upon finding an item of known value "OMG, OMG, OMG I'VE FOUND /insert item/ !!! AFTER 1000's HOURS OF PLAYING" is replaced with "right, I've found /insert item/ (after 50h of playing, because drop rates are so high), hopefully I can sell it and I am 1-5% closer to buying something useful" and joyful "founding of /insert item/ can replaced by buying it for 13mil on AH". Or 130mil, in 'lottery' scenario, which consider that you didn't find it yourself by any means .
This was caused by chiefly fixed stats on sets/legendaries/runewords - when soulcage was 'the soulcage', things were different - now soulcage is 10-100% of 'the soulcage'

Imbalance of roll-able stats creating elite items, devaluing all else
After discussing how there are too many useless drops, I want to explain how the way items roll and the types of rolls they have affects the fact that nearly every item is useless except for a select few, the elites.

Referring back to Diablo II, we had a more effective system of budgeting items. This created a balanced progression of an item's quality. This intelligent algorithm created items that actually made sense to better boost a player's ability...

Clavdivs: - focused much on people who actually doesn't want to play inferno ad infinity, but to "finish" it on Hell (maybe Inferno) once, then try another character, etc. - The game is too easy, too short and not satisfactory for them. Low-level sets/legendaries are useless (used for 5h of gameplay, for example), high-level skills become available just before inferno and there is no fun of using them. Those people are somewhat deceived - five times replayable and that's it - no irreversible char builds made sure of that. His solution was having irreversible 'perk' to choose at the beginning (and possibly again after certain amounts of paragons), which would encourage people to replay the game with the same character. Considered game should be having "normal" ending upon defeating Hell (or Inferno, if it is made more "normal"), disliked MP-system "as a sorry excuse for a real endgame solution"... (Goes too in depth for more citing)
Creating rolls that make the item somewhat useful
Another key factor to the suppression of this game is the completely mindless RNG that is creating the drops. Yes, we want RNG, but we want RNG to work in a way that benefits us to a degree.
The RNG could be set as the determinant factor that makes it roll a combo of useful rolls, and the game will understand what a useful roll is in combination with another one. Also, being able to eliminate as many useless affixes and at least make all of them somewhat worthy, and especially more worthy in conjunction with another.

Disagree to a point. The sets/legendaries are currently obligatory, for a reason of giving +CC and +IAS where it normally shouldn't be one (or both). Furthermore, each character can use all of them, reducing the number of builds fivefold and introducing obligatory pieces of equipment. Apart from that, total damage/dps become largely uncontrollable and unpredictable for balancing, since practically all item slots can have one - make ONE shoulder with CC/IAS, and Vile Ward, most used item in the game, will disappear. Same bonuses were strictly reserved (and controlled) in Diablo II. Reward for additional set pieces has, in most cases, diminishing return - sets are basically 'pairs', and same pairs for all characters, to make matters worse.
Solution - key items of sets, ones with unnatural damage/dps affixes, are to be class-specific. More sets/legendaries have to be introduced, and overall number of combos will multiply drastically. semi-fixed rares (possibly crafted ones) are still 'lottery', but should be better than most set parts taken individually. Set/legendary affixes have to vary much less.


In-house Auction Chat eliminates flippers/snipers/scammers
Currently, the Auction House is still an experiment in progress, it has shown both signs of success and failure. The main aspect of failure comes with the large scale of useless goods coming from the loot table, however, there are many fundamental flaws in this system which many players that are knowledgeable can take advantage of the new players.
The system is disjointed, before the Auction House, you had to chat in-game with players and barter for items you wanted...

Clavdivs: - Strongly opposed 36h bidding period, since "bidding stalls 35h, then comes in the last hour, which is often in ungodly time" - insisted on 24h period. Recommended radical change to bidding - both starting and buyout price is set as current, but players can also bid under starting price. This option should be set on or off when creating a bid, and is irreversible under the same condition as current. Basically, creates an opportunity to make an offer to a guy who asked for a billion ("Sonny, I'll give you 100 mils for that"). Admitted it needs testing first.
Me: - Strongly against another 'chat', it will be as dysfunctional as trade chat is now (and perhaps the forums, as well). The surest road to chaos, in my opinion. Players should be allowed to interact more, but only through system messages or better bids, and not through the spamming same message all over - I'm pretty sure that very first hacking that appear will be one that allows spamming the same message over and over - much alike Garena, where spams are supposedly forbidden

Scams due to an imbalanced loot table creating a dysfunctional AH
Due to how the loot table has been created, it has along with it brought along a phenomenon to the players, that's leeching the life out of new and poor players alike...

Agreed on 'live abuse', but basically disagree about its cause. The recipes are amongst rarest items found, which actually allows and supports this scams/abuses.
Solution - Reducing recipe rarity, or removing it entirely, or making it complicated to get through a series of items unlikely to find - basically Diablo II Runewords or uber-Tristram charm, now copied as 'revolutional, rather than evolution' (ok, some bitterness got the better out of me). Runewords were not public at first and advised to 'experiment with' - but as none sane would 'experiment' with Zod, they were data-mined in about 5 minutes after introducing. Shows that well-thought idea cannot be easily abused - they were supposedly plans for Runewords to be found, but the whole concept went down the drain, but no one was hurt. Because plans were unsellable, therefore impervious to scams. Entirely opposite of crafting concept.
Deep the rabbit-hole goes - other AH abuses are more numerous and far harder to eliminate. I won't go into depth with this, but there are several abuses without counter, live and well and untouched since the 'dawn of AH', and of a type that is likely to be concept-based


Without these critical philosophical changes, Diablo will collapse under its own weight
Agreed, is happening now. Most of my friends, myself included, play the AH-game only and wait for the fixes. Some of us are 'very well suited', though extensive knowledge of AH and broken itemization, and increase wealth daily. What for? I cannot answer this correctly - if the game is loot-based, and the loot is bought, and the goal is to have better loot... A loop. Where no actual gaming have a place - it can be added to a formula, but is not a necessity.
A balanced loot system calls for more challenging battles
Clavdivs - "make RMG, not RNG". Despised deeply randomness and uncertainty of 'guaranteed drops'("some gods do play dice, but not all the time") - new rares are worthless to the 'not picking up' point. Noted that some legendaries are sold by as low as 3,000g. Insisted on increasing vendor prices for sets/legendaries, since they go to the AH anyway, and 'clog' it. Missed sorely for random maps, especially large and challenging rare quest

Balancing skills, creating specialization
I could discuss this into lengths. To keep it simple, not all skills are equally useful, even in balanced game. But they can be made better with right itemization - the one that improves skills, or even a certain runes - there the potential comes from. But it's fully unutilized currently

Do you still play Diablo III as much as you did when you first started?
...Bringing back the memorability of the game, instilled in our minds when the Diablo II playerbase were kids, now adults, along with the new playerbase of the kids now...

In short, no. Only AH. But I wasn't a kid when Diablo II got out, not a bit more than am now. And they were players of all ages - some quite memorable elderly people, who made the community better - those who remember will know who am I talking about.

Revisiting the Diablo story, making use of the story arch to illustrate different aspects of the game, allowing a more unique replayability

Clavdivs -"Badly written to a level of fan-fiction. Diablo-ex-Machina. One-dimensional characters. Princesses and 'chosen ones'. Probably will get married and shine like a thousand diamonds in DX9 particle-effects. Misses Pandas greatly". Overdoes it, but has a basic point - story is much more appealing to kids, than to... anyone
Me: - They have to. They need to. The story has little appeal to me, and I'd prefer some irreversible choices that would influence the game - not only campaign, but also later farming, perhaps by having certain optional maps (RMG?), open to players who made certain choices, and different ones for the others. This would increase replayability immensely.
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im going to say what everyone either does not want to say or is oblivious too

The only reason Diablo 2 was successful was because of mostly duping and also on a lower level botting. Since diablo 3 has pretty much (although not altogether) cracked down on it is affecting players.

Sorry but that is why most people cant get good gear, you never could in diablo2 until people started duping high runes so people could start rolling good gear. it was a cheap way to get the best gear in the game and if you didnt roll it perfect, meh hel rune and go again.

Diablo 3 is pretty much even if you get the piece you want to drop you then have too many chances of not getting the stats you want.

I guess what i'm trying to say is the best gear in diablo 3 and the best gear in diablo 2 are so much different in terms of getting it, it is honestly a joke.

like it or dont, thats how it is
Not really it at all, but nice fail! D2 allows a character to own without even having gear on, in D3 all your DPS is dependent on the gear.

There's a big reason D2 expansion servers are still live and D3 diehards will never be able to understand it. If it aint broke then it don't need fixin!
Edited by Taranis#1321 on 1/28/2013 3:50 PM PST
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