Diablo® III

Nerfing Crit possibly fixes everything wrong with D3.

I know Blizzard is hesitant to nerf crit due to the massive outrage the community would surely experience... but for all the same reasons blizz nerfed Attack Speed, crit has got to go. Right now crit is the single determining factor on whether a piece of equipment is good, or if it's just medicore. You could have all perfect double stat primary roll with awesome vit/resistance, etc.. but no crit and it's laughably bad.

The itemization is extremely one-dimensional in this way. To make matters worse, actual balance is effected. Crit trivializes the content, which is against the design philosophy of things supposedly being "very hard" in Inferno mode. Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.

Right now Crit Chance needs to be given a hard cap of... 30% (30% may be way too high, but I say to nerf it to that level, and then see how it holds up, and if necessary, drop it down to 25% max)

Crit damage needs to have the values cut in half on all equipment in all slots, and emeralds need to do soemthing else other than crit damage in weapons.. take that away, nerf it out entirely.

See if the game doesn't get better. A lot of people will be angry for a while, but just like Attack Speed nerf, eventually they'll forget about it and move on.. meanwhile balance returns to the item market, so that more than just 0.001% of items are worth anything.. suddenly all manner of items are worth something to someone.

The Economy gets fixed, Itemization gets fixed, OP builds get fixed, and the game becomes something resembling what the team intended it to be, again.

/edit - adding this latest reply to the Original Post so more people notice it.
Fine, community... you don't want crit nerfed. That's apparent. So, go onto the Auction House, and search for one of the expensive one-billion gold items. Now run a search on that exact item, property for property, value for value.. but just remove crit from it. That SAME exact awesome item is now worth roughly 100k.. if it even sells at all.

So Crit has 1000x+++ the value of any other stat.. and you DON'T think it's a problem? Ok, then.. you wouldn't be opposed to Blizzard making Crit roll on every single item that drops in Inferno then? Then you don't have to live with a nerf, you keep your insane DPS and Synergy build, but the value still lowers on crit and equalizes the market. The ONLY reason you'd be opposed to that change is out of greed.
Edited by Paz#1827 on 1/21/2013 9:58 AM PST
Nerf CC, and you just open the door for something else to take its spot, just like CC did for IAS. Nerfing ONE stat in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM will EVER fix the economy. Sorry.
I see what you're saying but your fix is too drastic. The playbase would not accept that in the least, not to mention it kills effective and fun builds. Something more along the lines of 40%crit cap before skills (so 35 from equipment) and and 400% cap on crit damage before skills (350 from equip) would probably do though. Theres no longer any reason to stack crit and crit dmg in EVERY equip slot and so every person would choose a 2 or 3 slots where they can look for other stats. At the very least crit damage should have a cap. Crit chance is more iffy bc of the interaction with skills....
The IAS nerf was very different.
No...it's fun to stack damage and there is no reason at all to change that.
Agreed. (well, about nerfing cc, not about it fixing everything)

From another thread:
01/19/2013 11:20 AMPosted by bigtexasdan
No to CC/CD/IAS caps. A ton of specs would just stop working if those were implemented.


Not if proc coefficients were altered to reflect changes to CC. I think that having a cap for CHC/CHD would benefit the game greatly. As it is now, there is hardly any choice in gearing for PvM or DPS builds in PvP.

Caps can be good. If you ask me, it makes no sense to have half or more of your attacks being critical hits. Critical hits should happen less than 50% of the time at most and I agree, should cap somewhere around 25-35%. CHC numbers on items should be reduced like they were on IAS items but not as much. This would affect the value of some CHC gear purely based on demand dropping a little bit but it would not be a drastic drop in value if procs scaled with the change, allowing builds that rely on CC procs to still fully function. As it is now, you need to get the highest CHC that you can in every single slot that it is available in. It overshadows all other 'choices' and it's just not good design. Reduce the need to have max CHC in every slot by making it possible to cap out your CC by having it on say, 4-5 out of 7 slots that can roll it and watch diversity in gearing choices soar.

01/20/2013 02:07 PMPosted by Paz
Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.


Boo at this.
Edited by Iskra#1389 on 1/20/2013 2:31 PM PST
There is no theoretical alternative to crit. Cap crit, you get a few free affix slots and then what? I guess everybody would want life regen because that is the last decent stat left which normally people do not stack excessively.
Edited by Elexar#2219 on 1/20/2013 2:22 PM PST
Hard caps sucks. Better to nerf how much crit chance and crit dmg you can get on each item. Then a lower crit chance means less value from crit damage and vice versa, and there will less demand for the stats compared to now,

Crit changes wont fix itemization though. A lot of different issues needs to be changed for that to happen. Such as having other interesting stats to go for.

Crit shouldnt be nerfed just for the sake of nerfing crit dependent builds though. Better to nerf the skills directly.
Edited by Shadout#2849 on 1/20/2013 2:25 PM PST
Personally, I'd rather see a hard cap than actual nerf.
01/20/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Darkinsanity
No...it's fun to stack damage and there is no reason at all to change that.


That's dumb: i'm sure you play barb.
After looking your profile I was right. :p
It may be fine for barb to stack damage but it would have been great if:
- Wiz/Wd could stack speel modifier like + X% damage to fire/ice/ spells
- Monk get affixe like +X% to dodge melee attack on item.
- DH get affixe like +X% to dodge ranged attack.

And so on. The current state of the itemisation by blizzard is CC/DCC/AS for all & a big black weapon damge to go with it.
Compared to D2 this is just lame, non troughout customization.
Edited by papryaka#1935 on 1/20/2013 2:28 PM PST
While you consider making another monumental mistake, sure, hard cap CC and the few fanatics still left playing will be leaving in droves.
Hard caps sucks. Better to nerf how much crit chance and crit dmg you can get on each item.

Crit changes wont fix itemization though. A lot of different issues needs to be changed for that to happen.

Crit shouldnt be nerfed just for the sake of nerfing crit dependent builds though. Better to nerf the skills directly.


Just nerfing the amount of crit on items wouldn't solve the real problem at all. Everyone would still be forced to get max crit in every slot available. What we need is more choices in gearing. Currently, there is none. Crit needs a cap and the proc coefficients need to be altered so crit synergy builds are not eliminated.

Paz, the existence of synergy builds is not the problem. The fact that there are not more of these fun and functional builds is.
Agreed. (well, about nerfing cc, not about it fixing everything)
01/20/2013 02:12 PMPosted by Monoxide27
Nerf CC, and you just open the door for something else to take its spot


There's nothing else.
You wouldnt be forced to max crit in each slot, if there were other stats in the game that were as useful or more useful for your build.

Nerfing how much crit and crit dmg you can get on items reduces the value of crit and crit dmg, making it easier for other stats to compete. That wont help until other stats actually exist though.

Another place to reduce crit viability would probably be to change some of the skills which currently is based on crit procs. Still, that wouldnt be enough either. This is an issue that requires a lot of different fixes.

Throwing in some hard cap on crit would only hurt the game in the long run.
This would be a band-aid fix at best.
Edited by Shadout#2849 on 1/20/2013 2:38 PM PST
01/20/2013 02:07 PMPosted by Paz
Crit trivializes the content, which is against the design philosophy of things supposedly being "very hard" in Inferno mode. Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.


I can, look me in the eye: Blizzard designed the skills to synergize this way.

Skill/gear synergy is the one area D3 surpasses D2. We need more of it.

As for critical damage: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004344676
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 1/20/2013 2:37 PM PST
90 Goblin Shaman
10575
Critical hit damage is out of control. THAT is the stat that needs fixing.

the reason being. Your main damage stat can only get you so far, its simply not powerful enough.. but when you allow us to crit for 600% damage, you get to a point where your white hits are doing around 20k damage depending on the class, and then your crits are hitting for a billion. its ridiculous.
01/20/2013 02:19 PMPosted by Iskra
Not if proc coefficients were altered to reflect changes to CC. I think that having a cap for CHC/CHD would benefit the game greatly. As it is now, there is hardly any choice in gearing for PvM or DPS builds in PvP.


^^^^THIS!!!^^^^

PS...Diablo 2 didn't have CC/CHD like Diablo 3 and look how successful it was.
Edited by kdp#1641 on 1/20/2013 2:46 PM PST

Not if proc coefficients were altered to reflect changes to CC. I think that having a cap for CHC/CHD would benefit the game greatly. As it is now, there is hardly any choice in gearing for PvM or DPS builds in PvP.


^^^^THIS^^^^

PS...Diablo 2 didn't have CC/CHD and look how successful it was


Diablo 2 didnt have resolutions above 800x600, and look how successful it was! :P
Sorry, more seriously though, there is nothing wrong about CC and CDH as stats, only how valuable they are.
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