Diablo® III

Nerfing Crit possibly fixes everything wrong with D3.

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Here's my idea.

1. Nerf crit damage by 50%, leave crit chance alone.
2. Double monster damage and half monster HP.
3. Remove the lifesteal nerf and let rings, ammys roll this stat.
4. Buff the other gems so they are viable other than emerald.
5. Buff all gems so they give more than +4 stats per tier.

Goodbye, hardcore
If you kill CC you kill any barb using WoTB w/any configuration that is MP5+viable, all stun lock wizs, archon could get by at a 50% loss in efficiency -and you would kill every ranged viable build, monks would to allright but not amazing. Not sure about WD.

You have to have CC for resource regen on almost every class in the game. This is a horrible idea.

Effectively you would destroy the most viable and fun builds in the game...for the sake of what? not having to have an item with cc?

I would insert facepalm but it's not even worth it. kill off this ridiculous thread.
I like it the way it is.
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If you kill CC you kill any barb using WoTB w/any configuration that is MP5+viable, all stun lock wizs, archon could get by at a 50% loss in efficiency -and you would kill every ranged viable build, monks would to allright but not amazing. Not sure about WD.

You have to have CC for resource regen on almost every class in the game. This is a horrible idea.

Effectively you would destroy the most viable and fun builds in the game...for the sake of what? not having to have an item with cc?

I would insert facepalm but it's not even worth it. kill off this ridiculous thread.


Derp.

Proc coefficients. They're not set in stone, buddy. Ready the thread before you post next time.
I know Blizzard is hesitant to nerf crit due to the massive outrage the community would surely experience... but for all the same reasons blizz nerfed Attack Speed, crit has got to go. Right now crit is the single determining factor on whether a piece of equipment is good, or if it's just medicore. You could have all perfect double stat primary roll with awesome vit/resistance, etc.. but no crit and it's laughably bad.

The itemization is extremely one-dimensional in this way. To make matters worse, actual balance is effected. Crit trivializes the content, which is against the design philosophy of things supposedly being "very hard" in Inferno mode. Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.

Right now Crit Chance needs to be given a hard cap of... 30% (30% may be way too high, but I say to nerf it to that level, and then see how it holds up, and if necessary, drop it down to 25% max)

Crit damage needs to have the values cut in half on all equipment in all slots, and emeralds need to do soemthing else other than crit damage in weapons.. take that away, nerf it out entirely.

See if the game doesn't get better. A lot of people will be angry for a while, but just like Attack Speed nerf, eventually they'll forget about it and move on.. meanwhile balance returns to the item market, so that more than just 0.001% of items are worth anything.. suddenly all manner of items are worth something to someone.

The Economy gets fixed, Itemization gets fixed, OP builds get fixed, and the game becomes something resembling what the team intended it to be, again.

Crit chance is not the problem. Crit damage is, capping it is likely not the answer.
01/20/2013 04:02 PMPosted by Paz
They should just put a cap on DPS.


I can't tell if this is hyperbole, or not.. maybe you're trying to poke fun at my suggestion. I wholeheartedly believe that nerfing crit is the right answer for Diablo 3, and it's for all the reasons I've discussed... and at one time when Blizzard justified why IAS was nerfed.. I feel all the reasons they gave apply to Crit. But they apply to crit even more so, now, than they applied to IAS back then.

Very few people are actually offering up suggestions, at this point. I'm trying to help.


Nerfing/capping 1 specific stat in the game isn't going to fix the problems with itemization, or character power/dps/damage, the problems go a lot deeper than that.

Why??? because that is the way the combat system in this game was built. This includes items, skills and passives would totally need to be reworked from the ground up.

The IAS nerf 4-6 weeks into the game being released is proof doing so doesn't work, because here you are suggesting CC is now the issue in the game and if it was capped everything would be better for it.

Six months from now it will merely be another stat that players find "works best" in a build, and they will start stacking it to gain power.

Killing monsters as fast as you can and gaining more power by doing so is what a Diablo game is and has been all about.

The problem is there are only 4-5 affixes in the game that allow you to gain more damage effectively - Main stat, CD, CC, IAS, other modifiers that can roll on items don't.

This issue isn't just built into the items that drop in the game. Skills and passives on ALL characters have this same issue as well. Once you receive a new skill in D3 it NEVER becomes more powerful, it is what it is once you have unlocked it. The only way to gain more Dps is through items you can acquire in the game.

This game isn't like D2 where you got skill points every lvl from 1-99 and could increase the power of the skill itself. If that where the case in D3 then yeah specific affixes on items wouldn't be stacked on gear like what is happening now.
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Says the Barb w/ Weapons Master and Ruthless.
There's nothing wrong with crit being a valuable stat. It doesn't need to be nerfed. Attack speed was well-deserving of a nerf, because it was 1 stat that was so overpowered you could get a blue ring from a vendor that was superior to just about any crit ring you could find at the time. Crit is nowhere near that level.

Crit requires a balance of things to work most effectively, you need DAMAGE first, then cc, cd, ias, main stat, +avg damage. Having crit alone is useless if you have low damage and main stat.

Everyone (at least in softcore) wants to do damage, so whatever does more damage is always going to be popular (hence more valued).

You could even argue that DAMAGE is overpowered. Really, you can have 50% crit chance and 500% crit damage, but if your weapons do 200 damage each, that's not going to be very effective. Better nerf it...

No, stop nerfing gear, lol. Game needs more affixes and item choices. SoJ is a good example of a nice ring with no crit. :)
Proc coefficients. They're not set in stone, buddy. Ready the thread before you post next time.
Ultimately the proc coefficients still work off of critical hit chance. In order to make those abilities viable again, you have to not only increase the proc coefficients, but the end-user has to run attack speed in order to get enough critical hits to achieve the same effect as having high crit chance does.

In the end, the same gear will still be desirable:

Average Damage
Main Stat
Vitality
All Resist
Attack Speed
Critical Hit Chance
Critical Hit Damage

lets say, CC has now been capped, so you no longer need CC on rings anymore. The new multi billion gear will now be

Average Damage
Main Stat
Vitality
All Resist
Attack Speed
Critical Hit Damage

You see, nerfing crit chance does absolutely nothing. Gear prices will still be the same. Due to the way the game rolls affixes and mods, people will still be looking for perfect items like the above which already includes every DPS stat in the game. You're just taking 1 stat away, and rehauling the game to work with the new reduction of that stat. The end result with no positive effects whatsoever.
1. Nerf crit damage by 50%, leave crit chance alone.
2. Double monster damage and half monster HP.
3. Remove the lifesteal nerf and let rings, ammys roll this stat.
4. Buff the other gems so they are viable other than emerald.
5. Buff all gems so they give more than +4 stats per tier.


This.

lol at CM Wiz and WW barbs in this thread.
I know Blizzard is hesitant to nerf crit due to the massive outrage the community would surely experience... but for all the same reasons blizz nerfed Attack Speed, crit has got to go. Right now crit is the single determining factor on whether a piece of equipment is good, or if it's just medicore. You could have all perfect double stat primary roll with awesome vit/resistance, etc.. but no crit and it's laughably bad.

The itemization is extremely one-dimensional in this way. To make matters worse, actual balance is effected. Crit trivializes the content, which is against the design philosophy of things supposedly being "very hard" in Inferno mode. Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.

Right now Crit Chance needs to be given a hard cap of... 30% (30% may be way too high, but I say to nerf it to that level, and then see how it holds up, and if necessary, drop it down to 25% max)

Crit damage needs to have the values cut in half on all equipment in all slots, and emeralds need to do soemthing else other than crit damage in weapons.. take that away, nerf it out entirely.

See if the game doesn't get better. A lot of people will be angry for a while, but just like Attack Speed nerf, eventually they'll forget about it and move on.. meanwhile balance returns to the item market, so that more than just 0.001% of items are worth anything.. suddenly all manner of items are worth something to someone.

The Economy gets fixed, Itemization gets fixed, OP builds get fixed, and the game becomes something resembling what the team intended it to be, again.


This is wrong. Changing crit damage doesn't change the fact the entire itemization is based around weapon damage and can't be fixed without being entirely overhauled. That's just the tip of the iceberg though.
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I think you're correct, OP.

Blizzard really screwed up when they didn't foresee the insane stacking capabilities and attainable damage of cc/cd. It broke the game in many ways.

It's why 'monster power' monsters scale in hit points much more than doing more damage. They had to create hit point punching bags because there's no way for players to scale defensive ability in the same way as offensive. (cc/cd)

It's also why PvP is such a difficult thing for them to implement as players would like.

I don't think they can just 'fix' it now. It's too deep of an issue.

Hopefully they can come up with a solution of some sort.


Except we can. I can play no freezing builds as a wiz (who has no native damage resistance like barb and monk) all the way into mp10. And I'm far from maxed on AR and ARMOR.

I only run 530K EHP. In Last PTR i went as high as 1.5m to survive that gaunlet. Fact is bads just whine that we couldnt handle it so it was nerfed.

You have a problem with too much CC? increase damage and that problem with take care of itself cos ppl will look for defense instead of CC. Only the richest can have both every slot.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/20/2013 5:24 PM PST
+1

Fully support a massive CHC rework.
Blizzard and 'most' players think it's working as intended though since you could theoretically buff other affixes to make them just as powerful.

What would make you think twice about a trifecta ring? (6% CHC, 50% CHD, 9%IAS)
All Resist 500, Health Globes bonus 50,000 and 5000 Life Regen per second?

Even with those absurdly high rolls I'd still take a the trifecta in a heartbeat.
I think you're correct, OP.

Blizzard really screwed up when they didn't foresee the insane stacking capabilities and attainable damage of cc/cd. It broke the game in many ways.

It's why 'monster power' monsters scale in hit points much more than doing more damage. They had to create hit point punching bags because there's no way for players to scale defensive ability in the same way as offensive. (cc/cd)

It's also why PvP is such a difficult thing for them to implement as players would like.

I don't think they can just 'fix' it now. It's too deep of an issue.

Hopefully they can come up with a solution of some sort.


Except we can. I can play no freezing builds as a wiz (who has no native damage resistance like barb and monk) all the way into mp10. And I'm far from maxed on AR and ARMOR.

I only run 530K EHP. In Last PTR i went as high as 1.5m to survive that gaunlet. Fact is bads just whine that we couldnt handle it so it was nerfed.

You have a problem with too much CC? increase damage and that problem with take care of itself cos ppl will look for defense instead of CC. Only the richest can have both every slot.


I understand, And that's what I am saying.

The goof up is that even the 'richest' players cannot scale up their armor along with their damage. That's why nearly everyone (with half decent armor, ar & loh/ls) can 'play' in higher MP, but it takes forever & a day to kill anything. :)

And, just so you're clear as to where I stand PERSONALLY, I think design mistakes should be admitted & fixed BEFORE it's too late. There are too many band aid fixes in D3.
Edited by Otis#1467 on 1/20/2013 5:37 PM PST
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1. Nerf crit damage by 50%, leave crit chance alone.
2. Double monster damage and half monster HP.
3. Remove the lifesteal nerf and let rings, ammys roll this stat.
4. Buff the other gems so they are viable other than emerald.
5. Buff all gems so they give more than +4 stats per tier.


This.

lol at CM Wiz and WW barbs in this thread.

I would have to quit hardcore if they did that. But I suppose I can agree with 3,4, and 5
01/20/2013 05:11 PMPosted by Kizmatti


I can't tell if this is hyperbole, or not.. maybe you're trying to poke fun at my suggestion. I wholeheartedly believe that nerfing crit is the right answer for Diablo 3, and it's for all the reasons I've discussed... and at one time when Blizzard justified why IAS was nerfed.. I feel all the reasons they gave apply to Crit. But they apply to crit even more so, now, than they applied to IAS back then.

Very few people are actually offering up suggestions, at this point. I'm trying to help.


Nerfing/capping 1 specific stat in the game isn't going to fix the problems with itemization, or character power/dps/damage, the problems go a lot deeper than that.

Why??? because that is the way the combat system in this game was built. This includes items, skills and passives would totally need to be reworked from the ground up.

The IAS nerf 4-6 weeks into the game being released is proof doing so doesn't work, because here you are suggesting CC is now the issue in the game and if it was capped everything would be better for it.

Six months from now it will merely be another stat that players find "works best" in a build, and they will start stacking it to gain power.

Killing monsters as fast as you can and gaining more power by doing so is what a Diablo game is and has been all about.

The problem is there are only 4-5 affixes in the game that allow you to gain more damage effectively - Main stat, CD, CC, IAS, other modifiers that can roll on items don't.

This issue isn't just built into the items that drop in the game. Skills and passives on ALL characters have this same issue as well. Once you receive a new skill in D3 it NEVER becomes more powerful, it is what it is once you have unlocked it. The only way to gain more Dps is through items you can acquire in the game.

This game isn't like D2 where you got skill points every lvl from 1-99 and could increase the power of the skill itself. If that where the case in D3 then yeah specific affixes on items wouldn't be stacked on gear like what is happening now.


If they capped DPS, then we would have to look at other things to improve ourselves once one reached that max cap.

Which in turn put a limited value on stacking CC or CD. Those relying on max damage for regen would then need to rethink their plan. The knock on affect would make all the the attributes more valuable.

That being said, it won't happen, not in this iteration of the game.
The knock on affect would make all the the attributes more valuable.
All the attributes are already valuable. The most sought after equipment in the game are those that have every desirable attribute such as the ring setup that I posted up there. Don't think these items don't exist, check out this guy
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/nalgangdortz-3223/FrostBurn/19501531
Edited by speedforce#1637 on 1/20/2013 5:38 PM PST
Posts: 1,422
01/20/2013 05:31 PMPosted by Otis
There are too many band aid fixes in D3.


Best line I've seen all night.
Funny how the first thing the OP wants fixed is the economy. The source of irritation sounds more like you are aggravated with the auction house. You also have the choice to not stack CC and CD. Who cares if there are a bunch of OP characters. The implications of said change are huge. Leave it alone.
If they capped DPS, then we would have to look at other things to improve ourselves once one reached that max cap.

Which in turn put a limited value on stacking CC or CD. Those relying on max damage for regen would then need to rethink their plan. The knock on affect would make all the the attributes more valuable.

That being said, it won't happen, not in this iteration of the game.


Putting a hard cap on anything in a Diablo game makes it not a Diablo game.

What the OP is taking about will not ever go away the way the game was designed at its core.

CC is a problem... lets nerf it, now CD is a problem lets nerf it.....Hard cap on damage, ok now gear with high regen, and LOH cost triple what they did previously, well lets nerf it......Basically you would be chasing your tail every 6 months when players gravitate to the next best stat on any given item at the time.

Like I said without skills being able to gain power 7 customized, more power needs to come from somewhere, and in this game its gear.

Skills where made statistic in the game for a reason and 1 reason only, the RMAH/GAH, and the idea behind it is TONS of gear is generated by the players in game and SOLD, skills cant be.
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