Diablo® III

Ubers: shards vs shell

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01/30/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Ricstar
Does anyone use Fracture? I carry 3 people before, and the most important thing is survival, so when everyone die except for me. It would be hard to revive anyone with Magda and SK on your behind, but fracture kind of take attention away from you and allow you a few extra seconds to revive party members.


used to. best way to revive three dead barbs lolz SK hits clones and not u.
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Very interesting, I always forget conflag... Hmm... I wonder, would HF fireball proc enuf to make conflag stay on >80-90% of the time? Due to insane hit rate of WW & co., I see my HF shooting fireballs quite frequently, but is it enough to make conflag effective?

Hmm.. Gonna explore that


lmk if you want to borrow my FW. they are awesome ones... like add 7k dps. u need a rare 6cc tri ring and 3 ias to make this work tho...at least 52% cc or evo is no worth losing.

Or another CM but I consider more than 1 a crutch as well compare to monks
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/30/2013 11:38 AM PST
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Maybe on my next uber run I will drop my teleport crutch and try timewarp. I typically only do ubers when one of my barb friends has a couple of baddies that need carries and we usually clear all 3 realms with lot's of time to spare so I really never gave timewarp a chance.
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01/30/2013 11:31 AMPosted by Phal
if only there was a way to have conflag without breaking nats / having to use meteors and such..would, like aimless said, be best team play buff for evo replacement. someone said storm crow fireball proc works with conflag but im not sure if this is true / how well it works as i havnt tested it.


ive tested doesnt work. im not even conviced they are ever buring since my times are actually less with conflag storm crow and my SC was 39%. Firewalkers otoh works like a charm. 9.5x mutli vs 8.63.

i have to use mitagtion crutch and CC crutch from nats set or I'd be AR ARMOR FW conflag all the way with 3. Farming and ubers.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/30/2013 11:53 AM PST
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Ahem Alesso :P To really do 'max speed' ubers considering gg chars on everybody, I believe the group composition is just 1 snapshot monk solo'ing the ubers with the exception of the zk/sb fight, which will be quicker with a cmwiz :) Just saying, haha. Of course that is for 'max speed' and not 'max enjoyment'.

Concur with time warp but I'd like to add it is optimal for ALL groups - anybody who does carries on a constant basis should come to this conclusion as well after a large enough sample size. If you are carrying 50k dps guys who don't want to lobby, time warp will make them kill faster. If they are in the lobby, well it's just making you kill faster. Either way, unless a wiz has insufficient EHP, time warp should ALWAYS be the skill to use for ubers regardless of group composition :P There are definitely groups in which it would be preferable if everybody stays in the lobby besides you and the highest dps other char but one doesn't always have a choice in their carry team composition - that's part of the challenge I guess.

If you are with a proper uber group for max speed, you are with 2 HOTA barbs and 1 Snapshot Monk. You are using Timewarp Bubble, not teleport. You are only moving around a tiny bit during SK/Mag.

Run ends in 5-10mins, all 3 boss pairs. There is no debate as using the same group without Timewarp and teleport instead will yield higher run time, guaranteed.

If it's you carrying an absolute mess of a group, sure, use teleport if you otherwise can't complete the run.

Tele is a gimp on ubers. Timewarp with proper group = BIS for that skill slot based on one criteria: run duration
Edited by Carnac#1372 on 1/30/2013 12:02 PM PST
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I run uber carries with another sns wiz. When we run ubers we run double bubble (ias and damage). Both over 3.01 break point with bubble. Hellfires to keep them burning for conflag. One runs Bone chill, the other runs cold snap for extra lockdown. Mobs almost never move/bugs/beams/etc. There's obviously no need for teleport, and maximum dps is achieved.

The easiest carries are those where nobody has a chance to die.

Someone mentioned using cold snap to make shards viable. Adding 15 - 20% dps through shards by giving up a 15% dps bonus to your entire party is simply not using your head.

Edit: I almost never do carries anymore because people are annoying. Just people already in my friends list.
Edited by Veda#1190 on 1/30/2013 12:10 PM PST
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that was me i believe, and i would love to run bone chill but my lockdown isnt as good then. tbh it needs testin to see if bone chill for our group gives us better times or cold snap
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uh cold snap they dont move which allows noobs to live and deliver dps instead of dead and zero dps. and if it help u to run shards too thats a bonus.
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btw ehp wise i think u need 400k ehp vs elites to tank sks walk or a 2 bees with shards up, does anyone else agree?
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If it's to make lockdown more viable, then it makes sense. If it's to allow better freeze so you don't need to use shell, then it doesn't.
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I dont like using it. i like ubers to move so it's somewhat challenging and we dont get tagged as imba omg perma freeze wizzies by carries next day in forum. But really every solo cm would have best results for their clients with cold snap. PPL I carry die a lot. But I'm cool with that more visceral experience than mechanical grind... bone chill all the way.
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ah i get that honestly i agree i like using bone chill usually too but my regular farming/uber group usually has at least one hota barb so cold snap locking ubers in place is just too useful based on feel, im probably gonna start timing runs soon tho
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01/30/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Aimless
I dont like using it. i like ubers to move so it's somewhat challenging and we dont get tagged as imba omg perma freeze wizzies by carries next day in forum. But really every solo cm would have best results for their clients with cold snap. PPL I carry die a lot. But I'm cool with that more visceral experience than mechanical grind... bone chill all the way.


Coldsnap + evo +3.01 is like woah, although if there is nobody to make up the dps from bonechill, my wimpy 110k dps sns takes forever to bring them down, especially since I don't use timewarp because I refuse to roll without teleport.
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Ahem Alesso :P To really do 'max speed' ubers considering gg chars on everybody, I believe the group composition is just 1 snapshot monk solo'ing the ubers with the exception of the zk/sb fight, which will be quicker with a cmwiz :) Just saying, haha. Of course that is for 'max speed' and not 'max enjoyment'.

Concur with time warp but I'd like to add it is optimal for ALL groups - anybody who does carries on a constant basis should come to this conclusion as well after a large enough sample size. If you are carrying 50k dps guys who don't want to lobby, time warp will make them kill faster. If they are in the lobby, well it's just making you kill faster. Either way, unless a wiz has insufficient EHP, time warp should ALWAYS be the skill to use for ubers regardless of group composition :P There are definitely groups in which it would be preferable if everybody stays in the lobby besides you and the highest dps other char but one doesn't always have a choice in their carry team composition - that's part of the challenge I guess.

If you are with a proper uber group for max speed, you are with 2 HOTA barbs and 1 Snapshot Monk. You are using Timewarp Bubble, not teleport. You are only moving around a tiny bit during SK/Mag.

Run ends in 5-10mins, all 3 boss pairs. There is no debate as using the same group without Timewarp and teleport instead will yield higher run time, guaranteed.

If it's you carrying an absolute mess of a group, sure, use teleport if you otherwise can't complete the run.

Tele is a gimp on ubers. Timewarp with proper group = BIS for that skill slot based on one criteria: run duration


But the fastest reported kill was 1 wiz 1 monk 2 barb = 2:45sec kill
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01/30/2013 07:53 AMPosted by novice
I use Shell. And Safe passage. Nothing to be embarrassed about really.


Yes it is

XD
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@shaggy...I'm like 140K dps with my innas (shhh keep that on down low), LOH 9 ias ammy and 3.008 they dont move due to my excellent pings but booooorring. I dont see how ppl can like that.... sitting there for like 15 min holding macro button. I've been trying to make our no freeze work but as u know single and dual target dps sux...so i do next best thing semi freeze.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/30/2013 2:13 PM PST
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2:45 is the fastest reported kill for which boss set? That seems pretty darn slow (I average quicker times than that for even my slowest boss set, zk/sb and so do several other uber carriers) unless I'm reading it incorrectly. Where did you see this btw? Just curious where 'official' times come from :)

Icic Alesso. For reference, here are some 'current' times:
LordJoch (HOTA barb):
Magda sk total time 2:07
Zk siege- total time 2:33
Ghom/rak-total time 1:55
For snapshot monks, I know these times are possible:
Magda sk: 1:30ish
Zk siege: 1:45ish
Ghom/rak: 1:10ish

So - it can be much quicker solo'ing. Just a datapoint hehe.
Edited by Carnac#1372 on 1/30/2013 2:26 PM PST
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01/30/2013 12:12 PMPosted by SteelPhantom
that was me i believe, and i would love to run bone chill but my lockdown isnt as good then. tbh it needs testin to see if bone chill for our group gives us better times or cold snap


I've tested it. Cold snap = couple min slower if alrdy doing ~10-15mins total, assuming cold snap isn't making or breaking everyone's survival, and that the freeze is still good enough to sustain double dmg

@carnac not sure myself, I was told this when asking top barb friend bout his times and what's best ubers, he gave this figure. His fastest is 5min same group setup. Not sure what fastest solo monk time is. Ofc maybe this was bad info, but in any case for the purposes of group playing, it's good, even if good solomonk is faster
Edited by Alesso#1854 on 1/30/2013 2:18 PM PST
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Shards is rather pointless for ubers. Especially if youre in a group. A 10% dps increase for 1 player isn't going to help you kill ubers significantly faster. If you die 10% more often then it's a complete waste of time using shards.
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I use Shell. And Safe passage. Nothing to be embarrassed about really.


Yes it is

XD


hehe sup brudda. I got something 4 u remind me next time u see me. Check out my new wand. Gotta get rid of my old....
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/30/2013 2:20 PM PST
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