Diablo® III

Ubers: shards vs shell

01/30/2013 02:16 PMPosted by LordSandwich
Shards is rather pointless for ubers. Especially if youre in a group. A 10% dps increase for 1 player isn't going to help you kill ubers significantly faster. If you die 10% more often then it's a complete waste of time using shards.


But if you die the same rate or lackthereof in shards vs shell, obviously shell is pointless.
Edited by Alesso#1854 on 1/30/2013 2:20 PM PST
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01/30/2013 02:16 PMPosted by LordSandwich
Shards is rather pointless for ubers. Especially if youre in a group. A 10% dps increase for 1 player isn't going to help you kill ubers significantly faster. If you die 10% more often then it's a complete waste of time using shards.


its 20% for me and killer and plenty of others.
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Shards is rather pointless for ubers. Especially if youre in a group. A 10% dps increase for 1 player isn't going to help you kill ubers significantly faster. If you die 10% more often then it's a complete waste of time using shards.


its 20% for me and killer and plenty of others.

I doubt it's 20% on the maghda fight. Even if it is, that 20% helps the group kill 4% faster assuming everyone is putting out similar dps. How much time does that save you? 30 seconds on an uber run? If you die once then you've wasted your time. If your survival is the same using shards or shell then of course use shards. I dont think thats the case for very many people though. Shell is a 20% ehp increase.
Edited by LordSandwich#1429 on 1/30/2013 2:38 PM PST
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With my build I'm able to go face to face and beast it. People like to mock my build tho cuz I dont use nats set.
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01/30/2013 02:12 PMPosted by Aimless
@shaggy...I'm like 140K dps with my innas (shhh keep that on down low), LOH 9 ias ammy and 3.008 they dont move due to my excellent pings but booooorring. I dont see how ppl can like that.... sitting there for like 15 min holding macro button. I've been trying to make our no freeze work but as u know single and dual target dps sux...so i do next best thing semi freeze.


yeah I tried no freeze meteor spam on mp8 with like 980 res and 8900 armor on full crystallize, still got fragged like a chump. I tried meteor/LL frostnova and it just doesn't proc enough to do it.
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01/30/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Aimless


Yes it is

XD


hehe sup brudda. I got something 4 u remind me next time u see me. Check out my new wand. Gotta get rid of my old....


been a minute bro! ;)

Okay, gotta chat with you about my new gearing plan though before that and will do!
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01/30/2013 04:26 PMPosted by Daph
With my build I'm able to go face to face and beast it. People like to mock my build tho cuz I dont use nats set.


Your CC is terrible, you should get Nat's..consider yourself criticized!

Whatevs though, ppl are on the Zuni's bandwagon now so you can do whatever the bleep you want to do!

Most Nat users don't even have double CC anyway and in that case only missing out on 2% CC, no big deal. 5% + though is kind of a big deal.
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Aimless, even with Innas, is right.

Bubble is too dangerous for other group members.

I use SNS when group DPS is too low, and Crystal Shell + Cold Snap when DPS is high.

Safe Passage rune on Teleport for both settings.
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I dont see the point in using cold snap unless it can achieve no-stutter perma-freeze as in being able to stack sk and magda and they dont stutter at all until sk is dead. Since this is almost impossible to achieve (for one cm wiz) unless 3.01, high cc, and perfect latency, bone chill is generally a much better choice.

But if you can achieve a real no-stutter lockdown on your own and keep sk from twirling at all before he dies then by all means cold snap wins. Obviously the benefit of no stutter freeze (with sk not twirling once) will make up for the dps loss from bone chill by allowing other party members to dps constnatly without ever having to move out of melee due to dodging sk twirly-twirl. Those few seconds of moving out of melee to dodge sk do reduce quite a bit from overall killtime since it means every party memeber has to stop their rotation and usually ramp up rotation / cooldowns again after reassuming positions.

and i agree with earlier post saying shards is better as long as it results in no death, whether it be 10% or 20% (which from what i can tell depends on latency mostly). I think most of us choose shell as more of a safety net or lazymode option.

I still dont see the need for tele when the only need for it would be to quickly escape sk twirl which can easily be dodged by runnign out of melee when you see him starting the attack. slow time would be the max dps option but since many (like me) dont like slow time for other reasons, magic wep offers a good alternative for a constant dps boost as well as not having to be constantly recast in the spell rotation like slow time does.
Edited by Phal#1831 on 1/31/2013 9:57 AM PST
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now what I'm considering testing based on recent discussion about conflag is using meteor in place of slow time / tele / magic wep spell slot. Since I hate using slow time and dont use tele, casting a meteor every 5-10 seconds while using conflag passive should in theory not be too much strain on arcane power and would provide 10% boost to party dps. This would be a way to proc conflag without having to use firewalkers and a decent alternative for those who dislike slow time.

I need to test it to be sure that it would be viable but in theory it sounds pretty solid. Thoughts?

edit: I'd also be curious to know if using no armor spell and replacing it with meteor would be more optimal for max kill speed in a 2 hota 1 snapshot 1 cm setup. if meteor could be cast often enough to keep conflag passive up without straining arcane power too much (which I think it could be, need to test) would the 10% party dmg buff outweigh the dps from storm armor? I'm talking about those using slow time / bone chill for max party dps increase setup of course (so 40% + the 10% from conflag = 50% - the dps from storm armor = more total party dps (possibly?).
Edited by Phal#1831 on 1/31/2013 10:06 AM PST
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I think one of the reasons people are so reluctant to use bubble is because they simply aren't using it correctly. Let the bubbles expire and flies impact before recast - it's THAT simple. This way, you will only have a couple of flies impact you while you're proc'ing loh, not a problem for anybody with decent ehp. I see many many cmwizzes who cast bubble again and again, trapping a dozen flies in the sphere - that's 'dangerous' :)

The only time I ever bubble like that is when I want to intentionally kill off the group so I'm the only one standing - bubble electrify elites and magda flies ftw :P

Aimless, even with Innas, is right.

Bubble is too dangerous for other group members.

I use SNS when group DPS is too low, and Crystal Shell + Cold Snap when DPS is high.

Safe Passage rune on Teleport for both settings.
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Aimless, even with Innas, is right.

.


There is no right or wrong. Just matters how you like to play and what your equipment can do.

Most effecient is everyone leaves but carriers you kill them everyone collects 5 min later.:P
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aimless scroll up and read my post about meteor/conflag in place of storm armor, id be curious to hear your thoughts. specially since you got teh maths skillz.
Edited by Phal#1831 on 1/31/2013 10:40 AM PST
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Meteor requires an attack turn. It's not terrible, but requires more finesse imo.
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also meteor should not replace storm armor as it does a huge chunk of ur dmg
i believe but i might be a bit off its
15% shards
30ish storm
25ish ww
30ish eb

i think either steve or loroese posted the numbers somewhere
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Ya, I didn't read carefully. The only place it could be mildly viable is in place of teleport, but I think there are better options if you simply must get rid of teleport.

Storm is a must.
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Unless, you're planning to do a Meteor spam, I don't think there's any way Conflag/Meteor is better than Evocation/Time Warp. Meteor uses an attack turn and the largest damage bonus you'd see is +10%. But Time Warp's offering +20%, so that seems like the superior route to go.

I am intrigued though if it's possible to switch out Conflagation for Evocation and use Fire Walkers. I was thinking maybe Fire Walkers with my Skull Grasp (5%cc, plus +5%cc energy twister) would be superior to my current Nat's setup. However, I'm a little worried, since Bone Chill already feels dicey compared to Cold Snap and the removal of Evocation only exacerbates a tenuous stutterfreeze.
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im talking about it being viable in place of storm armor if already using bone chill and 20% dmg bubble and in a mac kil lspeed group with 2 hota and 1 snapshot. I'm thinking the 10% party dmg increase might outweigh the dmg from storm armor. In terms or just for the wizard tho of course storm armor is more dps.
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If you were going to try it (still unsure if it'd work), I'd probably eliminate Explosive Blast over Storm Armor. The two skills offer about the same percentage to your DPS. Now you lose some procs from explosive blast, but that frees up your AP to more efficiently cast Meteors.
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01/31/2013 11:35 AMPosted by TekkZero
If you were going to try it (still unsure if it'd work), I'd probably eliminate Explosive Blast over Storm Armor. The two skills offer about the same percentage to your DPS. Now you lose some procs from explosive blast, but that frees up your AP to more efficiently cast Meteors.


im talking about only casting meteors often enough to keep conflag up, not constant spam (which isnt possible right now whithout sacrificing effectiveness of freeze). im pretty sure 10% buff to 2 hota and 1 snapshot would outweigh storm armor dps by a landslide the real question would be if our arcane power could handle casting a meteor every few seconds to keep the buff up without reducing freeze ability.
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