Diablo® III

Update on Upcoming Changes to Rubies

Legendary weapon damage comparison before/after MinMaxDamage fix

Weapon damage calculation (1.0.7 PTR):
1. base weapon damage (base range of white weapons)
2. add +minimum (weapon) damage
3. game checks if min damage is higher than base max damage (this step is the MinMaxDam issue):
YES -> use the new min damage +1 as base max damage
NO -> use original base max damage
4. add +min damage from Ruby (this step was done before step 3 in 1.0.6)
5. add +maximum weapon damage
6. add +max damage from Ruby
7. multiply results 3. and 5. by "+x% damage"
8. add total min damage from jewelry and off hand (mojo/source) to min damage and total max damage from jewelry and off hand (mojo/source) to max damage
9. add "adds x% to elemental damage" by multiplying the min damage value by the x% and max damage value by the x% to get +min-max elemental damage
10. add "+min-max elemental damage"

Here are some of the current legendaries and how their damage would change incase of the MinMaxDam issue fix. There´s really only two options to fix the issue:

new1 = Move the position of the "check if base min + min physical > base max" mechanics so that +max damage gets added to base max damage and not to base min + min physical. The exact same change that just happened to Rubies.

Here, +elemental can not be added before "+x% damage" because it would then be higher than physical. It should still benefit from "adds x% to elemental" to make it roughly equal to physical damage, so elemental would be added after +x% damage but before "adds x% to elemental"

new2 = Add max physical damage as the sum of +min damage and +max damage as it was originally intended in patch 1.0.3.

+Elemental damage has to be added right after physical weapon damage (step 2), before the "+x% damage" affix (step 4) so that both would benefit from that affix and furthermore both would benefit from the "adds x% to elemental damage", thus finally making elemental and physical damage equal.

Note that the following chart shows the max possible damage and uses calculated values of the highest fixed rolls of legendaries (potential random magic properies are not included).

Legendary Damage range Avg dmg DPS %difference
new2 Windforce 549.0 - 1687.5 1118.25 1737.7605 +23.73%
old Windforce 549.0 - 1258.5 903.750 1404.4275
new1 Windforce 549.0 - 1258.5 903.750 1404.4275 -0%

new2 Calamity 501.0 - 1413.0 957.0 1699.632 +21.5%
old Calamity 501.0 - 1074.0 787.5 1398.600
new1 Calamity 501.0 - 984.00 742.5 1318.680 -5.71%

new2 Skorn 1189.5 - 1920.0 1554.00 1554.00 +5.34%
old Skorn 1189.5 - 1762.5 1476.00 1476.00
new1 Skorn 1189.5 - 1491.0 1340.25 1340.25 -9.20%

new2 IK Breaker 1225.5 - 1869.0 1547.25 1717.4475 +2.33%
old IK Breaker 1225.5 - 1798.5 1512.00 1678.3200
new1 IK Breaker 1225.5 - 1440.0 1332.75 1479.3525 -11.86%

new2 Echoing Fury 638.4 - 1376.2 1007.3 1460.585 +10.35%
old Echoing Fury 638.4 - 1187.2 912.80 1323.560
new1 Echoing Fury 638.4 - 961.80 800.10 1160.145 -12.35%

new2 Fist 585.0 - 1363.5 974.25 1513.9845 +11.79%
Az´Turrasq 585.0 - 1158.0 871.50 1354.3110
new1 Fist 585.0 - 934.50 759.75 1180.6515 -12.82%

Note that I only gave you a comparison chart of the highest dps black legendary weapons. It should be enough to give you an idea about the changes.

EDIT: Here´s some of the highest dps elemental weapons and their damage output with the suggested changes.

Legendary Damage range Avg dmg DPS %difference
new2 Danetta´s 447.0 - 1287.0 867.0 1387.2 +24.30%
old Danetta´s 447.0 - 948.00 697.5 1116.0
new1 Danetta´s 447.0 - 948.00 697.5 1116.0 -0%

new2 Sun Keeper 708.0 - 1516.0 1112.25 1334.7 +27.26%
old Sun Keeper 565.0 - 1183.0 874.000 1048.8
new1 Sun Keeper 565.0 - 1183.0 874.000 1048.8 -0%

new2 Vow 654.0 - 1416.0 1035.0 1493.50500 +29.90%
old Bul-Kathos 511.0 - 1082.5 796.75 1149.71025
new1 Vow 511.0 - 1082.5 796.75 1149.71025 -0%

new2 Sky Splitter 652.5 - 1413.0 1032.75 1490.25825 +29.99%
old Sky Splitter 509.5 - 1079.5 794.500 1146.46350
new1 Sky Splitter 509.5 - 1079.5 794.500 1146.46350 -0%

new2 Carving Knife 535.5 - 1432.5 984.00 1377.60 +31.95%
old Manajuma 392.5 - 1099.0 745.75 1044.05
new1 Carving Knife 392.5 - 1099.0 745.75 1044.05 -0%

new2 Devil Tongue 585.0 - 1363.5 974.25 1363.95 +32.37%
old Devil Tongue 442.0 - 1030.0 736.00 1030.40
new1 Devil Tongue 442.0 - 1030.0 736.00 1030.40 -0%

No matter which fix Blizzard chooses, they have to include +elemental damage in the fix and change its position in the calculation, or else the damage difference will still be there (slightly lower for new1) or even higher (new2).

Option new1 would slightly nerf physical damage weapons and lower the gap between them and elemental damage weapons. Option new2 would make physical and elemental weapons perfectly equal in terms of damage (assuming equal rolls) and would boost all weapon damage in the game, so it could be applied retroactively without making the players suffer. More damage can never be a problem because monster power levels (mainly health) can be adjusted.

This post was meant as feedback and at the same time to open the eyes of players who might not know the game mechanics and are afraid of any changes without knowing how exactly it would affect their gear.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 2/5/2013 3:06 AM PST
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Posts: 490
01/31/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We’ve been listening to your feedback

Every time I check the forums (in the past five days) I'm greeted with this quote. It's nice to see Blizzard trolling their own forums with this kind of flame-bait
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Does this mean that we're not getting the expansion?
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Its funny that back in the day developers would come together make a game test it fully and put it out. Honestly what are you at blizzard getting paid for? The community is giving you ideas to make the game better when it should have been you as professionals not to make a mediocre game (putting it lightly) to begin with. Sorry if im coming off harsh but its ridiculous that the community has to tell YOU what to put in a game YOUR making to make it what it should have been from the beginning. But i guess with idiots like me who are faithful to the diablo franchise still playing it doesnt matter much anyway right?...
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Why not buff the other gems....

+1000LOH, +2000 Thorns?

Sounds like possible build diversity....now it looks like Crit Damage is STILL goin to be BIS.
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When will the patch be released then?
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01/30/2013 06:44 PMPosted by Corgon
I'm still a little fuzzy on this whole "black damage bug". Can someone explain that to me? And try and use simple examples so I don't have to break out the college stat book?

the black weapon bug is the way min max dmg is calculated into % Elemental dmg.

Lets take an exampel.

U are a Wizard Using 1h + Oh.
Mh http://d3db.com/item/i/echoing-fury-1880318728
Oh http://d3db.com/item/i/triumvirate-1407499039

The Oh CAN roll 5-6% on 3 Elemental dmg % at the same time. In case you roll 6% to all 3 you are effectively adding 18% dmg to you MH weapon.

Since Your MH is a Black weapon those 18% are factored into the Min / Max dmg on that weapon.

Exampel. your Echoing fury does 700-1300 dmg then the 18% buffs those 700 and 1300 ..

Incase of a weapon doing lets say 700-1300 but out of those 200-300 is elemental dmg like fire, cold poison lightning, then the 18% will only affect the NON elemental portion of the dmg range. E.g. (700 Minus 200 ) to (1300 minus 300) making the dmg range that gets buffed or benifits from the 18% to be 500 - 1000. Hope that helped.
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No the black weapon bug is the way the min/max damage affix works on weapons.

daibo: 333–(616–632) Damage 1.10 Attacks per Second

333-624 Damage 1.10 Attacks per Second => 526.35 DPS
With +300 min damage and +400 max damage

+300 min damage => 633-624
BUG: min is greater than max => 633-634
+400 max damage => 633-1034 instead of 633- 1024

The result 916.85 DPS instead of 911.35. That is not that terrible in this case. (+0.6%)

Ax: 507–(613–629) Damage 1.00 Attacks per Second

507-621 Damage 1.0 Attacks per Second => 564 DPS
With +300 min damage and +400 max damage

+300 min damage => 807-621
BUG: min is greater than max => 807-808
+400 max damage => 807-1208 instead of 807- 1021

The result 1007.5 DPS instead of 914. That is more important. (+10.2%)

So this make elemental damage weapon useless in comparison with black damage weapon. And the same goes true for daibo in comparison with ax.

02/08/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Charlystyle
the black weapon bug is the way min max dmg is calculated into % Elemental dmg.

This adds on top of the bug and makes it worse.
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