Diablo® III

Update on Upcoming Changes to Rubies

01/30/2013 06:50 PMPosted by TekkZero
@TianZi: I just wish they'd retroactively alter existing black weapons so that their damage is unchanged and move over to the right damage system. There's no reason to nerf anything if they don't want to.


This.
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01/30/2013 06:45 PMPosted by haushinka
If rubies are being changed, and the +min / +max affix is currently bugged, why not change all rubies to use the +% damage affix (with appropriate values per tier of ruby)?


because this doesn't scale with ias. that is, it benefits slow weapons just as much as fast weapons. kinda like how chd does. the ruby buff is supposed to make it better than emeralds in some cases but not others. if it's all or none, then what's the point?

Well, at least it would fix rubies being hillariously OP for low-level weapons.
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If my offhand (or any non-main hand weapon for that matter) has a +X% elemental damage, how will that work with rubies?

Say my base item is 400-500 damage, and I put a ruby in the socket. Will the elemental damage (ex. 18% in a triumvirate) apply before or after the ruby damage is added to the base weapon damage
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90 Night Elf Druid
OOB
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Posts: 86
When you DO fix the bug, PLEASE apply the fix retroactively, else you will end up with another situation like the Natalya's Wrath [Legacy] set.

If you don't fix the bug retroactively, all future black weapons will roll inferior dps compared to their pre-fix versions, making the pre-fix black weapons MUCH more valuable/desirable, and further widening the gap between those who currently have top tier weapons (which are all black weapons, naturally) and those who don't.

You need to think about the longevity of the game and its economy, and sometimes that means making unpopular decisions, and nerfing things retroactively, as hard as that may be for some players to swallow.
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Actually I think fixing the bug now is a bad idea.

They should wait for the expansion that would no doubt come with item tiers that completely crushes current items.

People tend give less sh!t about their 1300 DPS echoing fury getting nerfed when they are holding their shiny new 2000 DPS one hander.
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Since it was mentioned, would there be a way to program it so you can see your stat changes before you insert a gem into a socket? I mean, I guess since we still can't see stat changes compared to items on the auction house, I shouldn't expect it, but can't hurt to ask.
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When you DO fix the bug, PLEASE apply the fix retroactively, else you will end up with another situation like the Natalya's Wrath [Legacy] set.

If you don't fix the bug retroactively, all future black weapons will roll inferior dps compared to their pre-fix versions, making the pre-fix black weapons MUCH more valuable/desirable, and further widening the gap between those who currently have top tier weapons (which are all black weapons, naturally) and those who don't.

You need to think about the longevity of the game and its economy, and sometimes that means making unpopular decisions, and nerfing things retroactively, as hard as that may be for some players to swallow.

This
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Ok, so let me get this straight. You're backtracking on what +min damage is? I recall in the early patches you reworded jewelry and ruby descriptions so that it became clear that

+X min damage
+Y max damage

equates to +(X-(X+Y)) to weapons.

Does this also mean that jewelry with +X min damage no longer adds X average damage but instead X/2 average damage?

Please just decide on something, make it consistent, and STICK with it.


This. How intuitive, +20-40 damage adds +20-20 damage... and you wonder why its confusing
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01/30/2013 06:53 PMPosted by Origin
@TianZi: I just wish they'd retroactively alter existing black weapons so that their damage is unchanged and move over to the right damage system. There's no reason to nerf anything if they don't want to.


This.


This is clearly too much work. it's not like they're a professional company managing the best-selling game ever.
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01/30/2013 06:10 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We’re not going to be changing how the MinMaxDamage affix calculates bonus damage on weapons in 1.0.7, nor do we have any immediate plans to do so. We’re okay with the way black weapons are now and we don’t feel the bug, as it exists currently, is severe enough to warrant an urgent fix.


bug is a bug

there is a reason why u guys place
" item properties and values may change over time due to game balancing"

why drag a bug fix .. it will only get worst
do the right thing now and fast , do not worry about the backlash if its the right thing to do.

look how 4pc nats legacy ended up with ... clear bug (disc regen too op)
as time drags on , u have to compensate with better items if not the balance between old and new will just open a new can of worms.

u guys nerf IAS and buffed it again on newer items to compensate on ilvel is beyond me.
Edited by icyraine#6715 on 1/30/2013 7:55 PM PST
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01/30/2013 06:10 PMPosted by Vaeflare
Chipped quality Rubies through Perfect Square Rubies will also be unaffected and will continue to use the current (bugged) calculation.

But why?

If the new rubies' +X to minimum/+X to maximum , and they are the only thing ever in which the damage addition is interpreted in the "intuitive" way , then the whole game has gotten an even more confusing mess. Please, consistency is important. Rules that vary arbitrarily are the epitome of bad design, just up there with fake difficulty...

If the mod will behave differently than when the mod is used everywhere else in the game, then it should be a different mod.
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I really wish everything min/max damage item just did the same thing everywhere, regardless of the equipment or when it was identified. Amulet, ring, weapon, offhand, it should all read the same and behave the same.

(1) Just get rid of wording it "16-32 damage". Add up min damage and max damage divide by two and say "+# average damage" on one line. I don't care, just for the love of god have uniformity on everything and stick to it.

(2) Get rid of "hidden" damage modifier bug because of a third damage roll (min damage, max damage, and min-max damage) happening all in one item. You can fix this by adding up all the min damage, adding up all the max damage, divide all that by two and list it on one line as "average damage".

(3) Uniformity, uniformity, uniformity. Please don't make items that generate after a certain arbitrary time follow a different set of computational rules. That's just annoying, confusing, and needless. It was annoying with set/legendary items, but at least using the "legacy" tag was an elegant way to resolve the issue. But with rare items? No. Just, no. All weapons should follow the same uniform calculation rules all the time. You're just going to cause problems where no weapon that drops after a certain point in time can be as good as a "legacy" weapon and farming will seem that much more futile.
Edited by Zed#1489 on 1/30/2013 8:06 PM PST
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(1) Just get rid of wording it "16-32 damage". Just say +16 min damage/+16 max damage. Take up two lines, just for the love of god have uniformity on everything and stick to it.


That's what they did for rubies. But apparently that was so counter-"intuitive" they're going to change how it works.

(2) Get rid of "hidden" damage modifier because of a third damage roll (min damage, max damage, and min-max damage) happening all in one item. You can fix this by having all min damages add up and say "+# min damage" on one line of the item and then do the same for max damage. Have it take up two lines and have it be concise and consistent.


one bug at a time champ. look how much difficulty they're having handling one.
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Ok, so let me get this straight. You're backtracking on what +min damage is? I recall in the early patches you reworded jewelry and ruby descriptions so that it became clear that

+X min damage
+Y max damage

equates to +(X-(X+Y)) to weapons.

Does this also mean that jewelry with +X min damage no longer adds X average damage but instead X/2 average damage?

Please just decide on something, make it consistent, and STICK with it.


Go buy a ring with +10 max damage and a ring with +10 min damage. They both give the exact same dps. They aren't backtracking on anything.
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Ok, so let me get this straight. You're backtracking on what +min damage is? I recall in the early patches you reworded jewelry and ruby descriptions so that it became clear that

+X min damage
+Y max damage

equates to +(X-(X+Y)) to weapons.

Does this also mean that jewelry with +X min damage no longer adds X average damage but instead X/2 average damage?

Please just decide on something, make it consistent, and STICK with it.


Go buy a ring with +10 max damage and a ring with +10 min damage. They both give the exact same dps. They aren't backtracking on anything.


They are both "5 average damage". I wish every item would just have one line that says "+# average damage". Add up all the min damage, add up all the max damage, divide by two and list as "average damage". Source, weapon, amulet, don't care. List them all the same and make them behave the same. Simple, elegant, no confusion.

[10+0]/2 = 5 = [0+10]/2
Edited by Zed#1489 on 1/30/2013 8:07 PM PST
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Bonus_min overwriting Weapon_Delta isn't much of a bug

... how would you resolve the old system?

http://screencast.com/t/oF2NKBKpQaU
19-19 ruby on a lvl 15 weapon (damage base was 16-19)
as you can see it does not make a 35-36

it's these conditions that (C) i feel is intended for - "least bad" way to calculate the damage

Weapon_min 16
Weapon Delta 3
Bonus Min 19
Bonus Delta 19

how do you think the screenshot weapon should function?

a. 35-36 (maxDamage = MinDamage+1)
b. 35-38 (maxDamage = Weapon_Min + Weapon_Delta + Bonus_Delta)
c. 35-55 (MaxDamage = Weapon_Min + Bonus_Min + Bonus_Delta + 1)
d. 35-57 (MaxDamage = Weapon_Min + Weapon_Delta + Bonus_Min + Bonus_Delta)
c. ? another calc?

Note: condition (b) is identical to (a) with an additional 3 Bonus_min
condition (d) treats Bonus_Min as "Average damage"; just call it 'average' damage from now on?


The Ruby would yield inconsistent value (symmetrical with minMax on weapons now) which was a tad bit weird; e.g. a revenant bow simply had so much weapon_delta that it would not get the same +average.. yet that system still exists anyway

the change makes a ruby more like X-Y found on rings/amulets. But this brings me to an important point for dual wielding- the Ruby does does NOT function in a similar fashion to the emerald

The emerald is a full character bonus, one in each hand is +200% - But the ruby (on live currently) only applies to the weapon it is on therefore a ruby in each hand is 50% + 50% for duel wielders >.<

(perhaps it should function off-weapon, truly identical to a ring/amulet x-y addition?)

also - Is ed% still going to augment the ruby's additional Bonus_min and Bonus_Delta?
can we expect 225 min 225 max with a 50% weapon?
Edited by zoid#1554 on 1/30/2013 8:43 PM PST
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every move the development team makes gets ripped apart.

guys, the games a mess, move on. other better games are coming out with this new diablo craze that are much better and more balanced. Not to mention, make logical sense.
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I kinda wanna go back to the days when there were no patches and we just had to suck up bugs in games. Cuz the pervasive entitlement in these discussions makes me nauseous.
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Ok, so let me get this straight. You're backtracking on what +min damage is? I recall in the early patches you reworded jewelry and ruby descriptions so that it became clear that

+X min damage
+Y max damage

equates to +(X-(X+Y)) to weapons.

Does this also mean that jewelry with +X min damage no longer adds X average damage but instead X/2 average damage?

Please just decide on something, make it consistent, and STICK with it.


Go buy a ring with +10 max damage and a ring with +10 min damage. They both give the exact same dps. They aren't backtracking on anything.


I suggest you actually do it.

edit: an easier exercise, search on the AH with the filter average damage. and just look at those with just the +min affix and those with just the +max affix.
Edited by haushinka#1374 on 1/30/2013 8:47 PM PST
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all of your energy is clearly being put into the expansion, and for that i thank you. c u then <3
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