Diablo® III

Storm Armor:Thunder VS Energy Armor: Pinpoint

Alright, this is a question about Storm Armor: Thunder Storm vs Energy Armor: Pinpoint Barrier. I play an archon build and I was wondering which is better for dps. Ive checked on diabloprogress and almost all of them that play archon use pinpoint. I've did a few tests on Ghom and Storm Armor was better for dps. So I'm wondering, is it better once I get higher damage? or is it because the all the top wiz with archon do so much damage, they just use pinpoint for the extra armor to deal with spell reflect?

But yeah, just want to know why do most wiz that play archon use pinpoint over storm armor.
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it could be that pinpoint is better for crushing dense packs of mobs, while TS is better for single or few targets
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I kind of doubt that, with archon, everything dies pretty fast, especially the white mobs. I could be wrong though.
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Low MP Storm Armor Scramble and Archon Teleport keep Archon up indefinitely --> see the Sustained Archon Guide.

Mid-High MP Energy Armor Pinpoint provides extra armor to deal with higher damage from mobs as well as 5%cc boost in order to refresh Archon cooldown quickly since it is more difficult to sustain and will wear off more often.
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Well I'm usually farming MP7 and can kill things pretty fast. I use tornadoes so I can get archon off cool down within 5-15sec or its already off cd by the time it falls off anyways. The only good thing I guess people use it for is the armor then.
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5% cc is also a big boost to sheet DPS, which you need more of at MP7. it's not about white mobs, its about how fast you kill elite groups. the faster they die, the longer you sustain archon.

Anyways you can look at it like:

Storm Armor - More DPS
Energy Armor Pinpoint - More DPS, faster proc of CM, more mitigation
Edited by couchy#1938 on 1/30/2013 7:34 PM PST
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Posts: 5,435
scoundrel with hysteria
pinpoint
teleport rune for archon

or if you want all out

scoundrel hysteria
pinpoint
improved

a b itch to cooldown :(
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scoundrel with hysteria
pinpoint
teleport rune for archon

or if you want all out

scoundrel hysteria
pinpoint
improved

a b itch to cooldown :(


You should use Deep Freeze with either LL or WW, LL I can refresh in 7-8 seconds under 2.0aps, with WW and 10 APOC it's faster, but you sacrifice stats for the APOC so LL is better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQR5UYPc42A&feature=youtu.be
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You should use Deep Freeze with either LL or WW, LL I can refresh in 7-8 seconds under 2.0aps, with WW and 10 APOC it's faster, but you sacrifice stats for the APOC so LL is better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQR5UYPc42A&feature=youtu.be


I don't really see the point of using Deep Freeze in my opinion because 80%-90% of the time I'm in archon form when killing any monsters. I've tried LL before, I felt like the procs were really low, unless like that video you have like 20-30+ mobs, or maybe if I have enough attack speed which I don't right now. Also I would die a lot too with LL too. Then with WW it was so much better, I do have 300+ life on hit, so that plus getting diamond shield off cd faster, I can just stand there and take the damage without dying and with only 3-4 mobs archon would be off cool down in a few sec. Even when doing ubers with another CM Wiz freeze build, I can get archon up around in 10 sec.

But yeah, like you said though, you have to sacrifice some stats though to get APOC. The way I see it, I can get it on my off hand, I would probably be losing 100-150 int and 100+ vit if I were to get one of the best Triumvirate which I wouldn't mind losing. I was trying to get a good Weapon with APOC but the best I've seen had like about 1200 damage, life steal, socket, APOC and thats it. Don't think it can get any better than that.
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Posts: 5,435
scoundrel with hysteria
pinpoint
teleport rune for archon

or if you want all out

scoundrel hysteria
pinpoint
improved

a b itch to cooldown :(


You should use Deep Freeze with either LL or WW, LL I can refresh in 7-8 seconds under 2.0aps, with WW and 10 APOC it's faster, but you sacrifice stats for the APOC so LL is better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQR5UYPc42A&feature=youtu.be


yup, i use deep freeze

my archon is 2.74 aspd; 54 cc; 225 cd

i'm a nonblack archon, using chant set @_@

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/PICHAPIEGAL-6638/hero/25315501
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without LS, archon is very weak...

and to answer OP. of course thunderstorm on low mp, and pinpoint on high mp. thunderstorm's best trick is you dont have to waste time on single targets. you just walk by them and collect the loot.
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Pinpoint is better IMO for hybrid Archons when you want as few WW/LL casts as possible to bring Archon off CD.

Also, Storm Armor can hit nearby goblins, which is totally not okay on high MPs when you want to save killing goblins for last.
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You should use Deep Freeze with either LL or WW, LL I can refresh in 7-8 seconds under 2.0aps, with WW and 10 APOC it's faster, but you sacrifice stats for the APOC so LL is better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQR5UYPc42A&feature=youtu.be


I don't really see the point of using Deep Freeze in my opinion because 80%-90% of the time I'm in archon form when killing any monsters.

Then with WW it was so much better, I do have 300+ life on hit, so that plus getting diamond shield off cd faster, I can just stand there and take the damage without dying and with only 3-4 mobs archon would be off cool down in a few sec.


Well you can't use WW / Crystal Shell in Archon, just like you can't use LL / Deep Freeze. The difference between Shell and Freeze is huge for refreshing cooldown from CM procs. 15% crit chance is a massive spike in CM procs.

You might want to try WW / Deep Freeze, instead of Crystal Shell. You said you don't take damage because Shell is up from fast procs, but keep in mind you don't take damage when mobs are perma-frozen due to fast procs of Nova. The bonus is faster refresh.
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I would think that Shocking Aspect rune would add even more DPS than Thunderstorm with your crit chance, Miguel. Archon beam doesn't proc it as much as whirlwinds but I still feel like I see a very noticable DPS boost with Shocking Aspect in Archon form.

The extra 30% damage on the bolts isn't as noticable IMO but you have about 100k more DPS than I do with my Archon gear.
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I'm going to redo the math that, oddly enough, I did yesterday while I was bored at work. I'll be using my character as an example.

Stats with just Glass Canon:

DPS: 252,468.22
Attacks per Second: 2.09
+% Attack Speed: 49%
Critical Hit Chance: 45.5%
Critical Hit Damage: 313%
Avg. MH Weapon Damage: 121,080.5

Stats with Glass Canon, Familiar - Spark Flint, Magic Weapon - Blood Weapon, Energy Armor - Pinpoint Armor:

DPS 320,183.58
Attacks per Second 2.09
+% Attack Speed 49%
Critical Hit Chance 50.5%
Critical Hit Damage 313%
Avg. MH Weapon Damage 153,555.92

The Effective DPS of Archon:

(Teleport Rune): 960,550.74 eDPS
**calculated from buffed DPS x the lazer's 300% Weapon Damage**

(Improved Rune): 1,200,688.43 eDPS
**calculated from buffed DPS x the lazer's 300% Weapon Damage x 1.25 Improved rune**

The Effective DPS of Sparkflint:
Average Hit: 30711
DPS: 64037
(Assuming Attack Speed influences familiar)

Total:
Teleport Rune + SF: 1,024,587.74 eDPS
Improved Archon Rune + SF: 1,264,725.43 eDPS

Stats with Glass Canon, Familiar - Spark Flint, Magic Weapon - Blood Weapon, Storm Armor - Thunderstorm:
DPS 300,766.48
Attacks per Second 2.09
+% Attack Speed 49%
Critical Hit Chance 45.5%
Critical Hit Damage 313%
Avg. MH Weapon Damage 144,243.73

The Effective DPS of Archon:

(Teleport Rune): 902,299.44 eDPS
**calculated from buffed DPS x the lazer's 300% Weapon Damage**

(Improved Rune): 1,127,874.3 eDPS
**calculated from buffed DPS x the lazer's 300% Weapon Damage x 1.25 Improved rune**

The Effective DPS of Sparkflint:
Average Hit: 28,849
DPS: 60,153
(Assuming Attack Speed influences familiar)

The Effective DPS of Storm Armor - Thunderstorm:
Average Hit: 187,517
DPS: 390,996
(Assuming Attack Speed influences Storm Armor)

Total:
Teleport Rune + SF + TS: 1,353,448.44 eDPS
Improved Archon Rune + SF + TS: 1,579,023.3 eDPS

So against a single target, thunderstorm is better than pin point. but as soon as you have 2 or more targets (assuming attack speed influences TS + SF):

Pin point (Improved Archon) vs. 2 targets : 2,465,413.86 eDPS
Thunderstorm (Improved Archon) vs. 2 targets: 2,706,897.6 eDPS

Pin point (Improved Archon) vs. 3 targets : 3,666,102.29 eDPS
Thunderstorm (Improved Archon) vs. 3 targets: 3,834,771.9 eDPS

The more targets Pin Point armor starts to eclipse on Thunderstorm. However, that number is after 3 targets and therefore is probably not as important because elite packs are most often 3 models.

However, if attack speed neither influences Spark Flint or Thunderstorm and they both proc 1 APS:

Pin point (Improved Archon) vs 1 target: 1,231,399.43 eDPS
Thunderstorm (Improved Archon) vs 1 target: 1,344,240.3 eDPS

Pin point (Improved Archon) vs. 2 targets : 2,432,087.86 eDPS
Thunderstorm (Improved Archon) vs. 2 targets: 2,472,114.6 eDPS

Pin point (Improved Archon) vs. 3 targets : 3,632,776.29 eDPS
Thunderstorm (Improved Archon) vs. 3 targets: 3,599,988.9 eDPS

In this example Pin Point armor is approximately equal to or better than Thunderstorm at 2 to 3 targets, respectively. Therefore, in my opinion Pin point is better if IAS does not influence Storm armor (the spark flint damage is relatively negligible, but it does proc conflagration which is often over looked as a third passive)

**Calculated eDPS is: (Archon laser eDPS) x (#-1 of targets) + Archon laser eDPS + SF + (TS if applicable)**
Edited by FrozenSolid#1462 on 1/31/2013 10:43 AM PST
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^ Storm Armor hits are not impacted by attack speed. I have tested this myself.

I like the analysis though, that's pretty neat. At low MP it's a little different though because that storm armor strike can one shot mobs, and if the extra dps from pinpoint is only useful against elites, then SA > Pinpoint. Otherwise Pinpoint at higher MP if mobs live more than half a second or sustained dps and survivability are more important than burst damage.
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Well you can't use WW / Crystal Shell in Archon, just like you can't use LL / Deep Freeze. The difference between Shell and Freeze is huge for refreshing cooldown from CM procs. 15% crit chance is a massive spike in CM procs.

You might want to try WW / Deep Freeze, instead of Crystal Shell. You said you don't take damage because Shell is up from fast procs, but keep in mind you don't take damage when mobs are perma-frozen due to fast procs of Nova. The bonus is faster refresh.


I know you cant use them in Archon, the point of those spells is to refresh the cd of Archon faster.

Well I tried it just right now and yeah I kind of liked it a lot because of the 15% crit bonus, which gave me about 45k+ dps. Would be nice to get a few mobs, get the bonus for 12sec and then pop archon on an elite, I liked that part of it. I can keep them frozen with a few mobs, but anything that was range would kill me, can't freeze everything on the screen, I would die a lot of the time. I already have 50% crit and with that I can get archon up in a few seconds, to just get deep freeze for the 15% crit wasn't really worth it to me because of me dying and it was maybe like 2-4 sec faster which isn't really a big deal. I could see it maybe be worth it if you had low crit, but if you if you already have enough crit to get good procs, I dont think its worth it to be just a few sec faster.

I would think that Shocking Aspect rune would add even more DPS than Thunderstorm with your crit chance, Miguel. Archon beam doesn't proc it as much as whirlwinds but I still feel like I see a very noticable DPS boost with Shocking Aspect in Archon form.


It might but I like Thunder Storm because I feel like its more damage vs single targets, I could be wrong. I'm always going to get that 130% damage no matter what, then without it I only get 100% and 35% when I crit, not sure if its every time or just a chance to proc. I'm doing mp7 everything I kill dies with in 1-2 seconds, so not going to really affect me with the white mobs, the only thing that takes time to kill are the elites and there really are only 1-3 of them at a time.

01/31/2013 10:35 AMPosted by FrozenSolid
(the spark flint damage is relatively negligible, but it does proc conflagration which is often over looked as a third passive)


I never knew that :) I might have to use that now.

But yeah, I kind of like Storm Amor for when there is 1-3 elites just cause that damage is always going off and you can notice it pretty well. The 5% crit from pinpoint, you don't really seem to notice it in my opinion. But I might consider to use it though when ever I start doing mp10 for more survivability and the extra crit.
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Low MP Storm Armor Scramble and Archon Teleport keep Archon up indefinitely --> see the Sustained Archon Guide.
.


^ THIS!
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