Diablo® III

L.F. Players that think Monk passives are ok

Just curious. Maybe I missed something with the majority of time I play on my monk and with the love I have for this class. I am looking for a player that thinks monk passives are ok. Maybe this person can explain it. Right now I just don't understand.
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whayyt chang passives already! get it?
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Personally, I agree with Wyatt in almost every respect.

I think that he is saying that monk passives are "okay" in context.

Monks have good passives and they allow us to compete with other classes from a power-scale perspective.

In that context, monk passives are okay.

I believe his main point is that with the prevalence of OWE, it is extremely hard to tell what is and what is not functioning correctly.

For example: the VAST majority of monks think Pacifism and Sixth Sense are both TERRIBLE passives.

However, many top-tier monks I know (me included) who have dropped OWE in favor of AR gear, can attest that BOTH passives have made it onto our skill-sets for different situations.

(Just for the curious, Pacifism is a terrific skill for MP10 when fighting multiple elite packs. I take it because it makes it nearly 100% impossible to die. Sixth Sense is the go-to mitigation passive for pvp especially and pve sometimes when you use a sword and shield because you will have >50% CHC and Sixth Sense gives >15% dodge.)

Does this mean I run around with those two passives 24/7? Of course not. The point is that, since dropping OWE, I have found that many of our previously "meh" passives can be quite useful ... but ONLY when OWE isn't an option.

I believe it is 100% possible that they will make OWE no longer mandatory (hopefully in a graceful way) and then, subsiquently find some of our passives to be lacking. (looking at you Transcendence)

When this happens, we will be looking at a less muddled playing field and changes to non-functional passives would be more viable.

tl;dr - I do not think that Wyatt was saying all monk passives are equal and without need of change. I think he was saying that monks passives currently allow them to have similar power-levels to other class' passives and so the major focus should not be on fixing the passives and should be on seeing what happens when people feel like they actually have options.

As an aside, I truly believe that if every monk had 1 more passive, you would start to see a LOT more use from every other passive. The problem is that STI, unless hyper-nerfed, is 100000x better than any other passive (main-stat bonuses tend to work like this) and OWE is the best mitigation passive in the game. This leaves 1 choice and that simply isn't enough.

-Druin, the happy monk
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Don't forget either, that since the STI nerf its actually become more used than OWE. Although if they nerf OWE I doubt the same will happen.

Thats why I like their second idea on changing it the most, since it will make the passive still useful, but not as required as people feel it is now.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Don't forget either, that since the STI nerf its actually become more used than OWE. Although if they nerf OWE I doubt the same will happen.

Thats why I like their second idea on changing it the most, since it will make the passive still useful, but not as required as people feel it is now.


That second idea looks SO good.

Only problem I have with it is that they wouldn't retro-change gear ... so things like legacy duel-res VW's would probably become BiS and BiS would still mean using OWE .... but maybe not! :D
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Well stated, Druin! I agree with you completely - even as a monk who has not yet been able to gear myself out of OWE. Truth be told, there are far more passives I want on my bar than I am able to use. And it truly is a question of how passives synergize with other skills in my build. We shouldn't look at passives in isolation, IMO.

As an example, I did not fully appreciate the power of Guiding Light until I experienced it in group play. At this point, I think I've figured out how to viably use almost all of the passives out there (really, except for Resolve and Pacifism right now) in both group and solo efforts and it's all situation and build dependent. To me, that is a sign of passives being more okay than not.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 2/11/2013 12:48 PM PST
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STI needs a buff, should be 75% instead of 50
most monks with or without OWE will have huge all resis, but not a lot armor. overall monk eHP is poor compared to the other melee class, barb. one word: bottleneck.
STI at 50% is only good if everything in the game can be dodged. I am talking about AOE, damage over time !@#$, like bleed, arcane sentry, molten, firechain etc
Edited by Violentine#1122 on 2/11/2013 12:51 PM PST
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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02/11/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Violentine
STI needs a buff, should be 75% instead of 50


STI is the best passive we have.

It is also the most used monk passive in the game.

Out of pure curiosity why do you think it needs a buff given these stats?
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Well, I still hate the fact that we do not have any really good offensive passive. Guiding Light is useful for ubers though.
And I can't understand why they've made Guardian's path only useful with 2-handers.
Also, not sure bout you guys but Im only using the spirit/sec to fuel TR.
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Well, I still hate the fact that we do not have any really good offensive passive. Guiding Light is useful for ubers though.
And I can't understand why they've made Guardian's path only useful with 2-handers.
Also, not sure bout you guys but Im only using the spirit/sec to fuel TR.

TGP is great with MoE/Backlash, and if you combine that with other skills that increase dodge rate. The difference is noticeable.

In terms of good offensive passives, I am still a big fan of Combination strike. It's more or less a permanent 8% buff at minimum, and on average a flat 16% buff for most monks that use it. It encourages use of multiple spirit generators, and many runes are very interesting but one would never want to use it as a sole spirit generator (like DR/Foresight). Of course, I'm sure you knew this, but I'm just saying that I find there are some pretty good offensive passives, just not as immediately apparent and obvious as what you see with the barbs.
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I fail to see how monks having life steal on a passive can be overpowered or bad
it would allow us to choose other weapons and not be limited to LS weapons only.
And this is IF we wanted to, maybe some monks don't need life steal, but it can't be bad to get the same amount of passives as others do, and the new one being life steal.
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Not sure why Guiding Light gets so much hate. I've heard nothing but good things about it from people I play with (other classes included). Its pretty much all I run since I'm VERY rarely the only monk in a group.
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Personally, I agree with Wyatt in almost every respect.

I believe his main point is that with the prevalence of OWE, it is extremely hard to tell what is and what is not functioning correctly.

Does this mean I run around with those two passives 24/7? Of course not. The point is that, since dropping OWE, I have found that many of our previously "meh" passives can be quite useful ... but ONLY when OWE isn't an option.

tl;dr - I do not think that Wyatt was saying all monk passives are equal and without need of change. I think he was saying that monks passives currently allow them to have similar power-levels to other class' passives and so the major focus should not be on fixing the passives and should be on seeing what happens when people feel like they actually have options.

As an aside, I truly believe that if every monk had 1 more passive, you would start to see a LOT more use from every other passive. The problem is that STI, unless hyper-nerfed, is 100000x better than any other passive (main-stat bonuses tend to work like this) and OWE is the best mitigation passive in the game. This leaves 1 choice and that simply isn't enough.

-Druin, the happy monk

I respectfully completely disagree with you.

The problem isn't that OwE is too good. The problem is that everything else is too "meh."

Monks have 2 great options right now with passives, and then they have a pu-pu platter of poor choices. The solution should not be to reduce the amount of great options to 1, thereby allowing people to select another "meh" option from the pu-pu platter of poor choices. The solution should be to increase the amount of great options so that it is worth gearing out of OwE.

Edit: Just realized that you are basically making this argument:

Blizzard should nerf FoT/TC so they can figure out what needs to be done with the other spirit generators.
Edited by Piffle#1874 on 2/11/2013 1:00 PM PST
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/Amen Druin.

Go look at the other classes passives for perspective. They need A LOT more help.
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/Amen Druin.

Go look at the other classes passives for perspective. They need A LOT more help.

Yea, you're right. Barbs are really hurting for passives. As are Witch Doctors - man, they don't have any good passives.

/rolls eyes
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Generally, I'm happier with our passives than most others. At this point, I don't see any of them as strictly necessary, and I don't feel like any of them are useless. In terms of viability, I really can't ask too much more than that.

I don't even see that big an issue with OWE. It makes gearing Monks uniquely different from other classes, so that's something. I do like the idea of letting specific resists roll much higher on gear (as a single affix slot) than AR but AR can't be on the gear. It actually makes OWE more viable for high DPS Monks, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing.

My biggest complaint is really the lack of more passives that alter my play style or gearing choices. I don't want something that just adds +X to damage or to CC or IAS or something. I'd like something that said "Strength now boosts damage, but not armor". Or I'd like "Strength is now 3x as effective for armor" instead of STI. It's not like i'm not going to stack Dex.

I don't really want a Weapon Master or Ruthless type skill for Monks. I want a Critical Mass type passive that changes the way I play (not necessarily that exact passive, but something that makes me change how I play).

So the big issue I see with Monk passives s blandness, to be honest.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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I respectfully completely disagree with you.

The problem isn't that OwE is too good. The problem is that everything else is too "meh."

Monks have 2 great options right now with passives, and then they have a pu-pu platter of poor choices. The solution should not be to reduce the amount of great options to 1, thereby allowing people to select another "meh" option from the pu-pu platter of poor choices. The solution should be to increase the amount of great options so that it is worth gearing out of OwE.

Edit: Just realized that you are basically making this argument:

Blizzard should nerf FoT/TC so they can figure out what needs to be done with the other spirit generators.

The problem with OWE is not that it's too good but that it is a trap.

If the Admiral was here, he would know what to say.

STI is too good but that is fine because you can take STI off your bar and feel totally fine.

If you have massive amounts of poison resist and you decide to drop OWE, you will constantly look at your gear and hate life.

It is this feeling that causes OWE to be far more "mandatory" than it should be.

Furthermore, I am not saying "nerf OWE to figure out what's wrong" because, in this case, our other passives are very viable unlike our other spirit gens.

If they simply nerfed Thunderclap, monks would take a serious power-level hit.

The highest power-level monks in the game don't use OWE. It's not a power-generating skill. Instead, it is a short-cut to mitigation which traps you into a VERY finite playstyle.

There is a massive difference between those two things and that is the reason I believe Wyatt is talking about really positive OWE changes (not even nerfs) and not talking about how OP Thunderclap is.

All I want is for monks to maintain their power-level with respect to other classes, AND be able to access that power-level through multiple avenues.

Generally, I'm happier with our passives than most others. At this point, I don't see any of them as strictly necessary, and I don't feel like any of them are useless. In terms of viability, I really can't ask too much more than that.

I don't even see that big an issue with OWE. It makes gearing Monks uniquely different from other classes, so that's something. I do like the idea of letting specific resists roll much higher on gear (as a single affix slot) than AR but AR can't be on the gear. It actually makes OWE more viable for high DPS Monks, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing.

My biggest complaint is really the lack of more passives that alter my play style or gearing choices. I don't want something that just adds +X to damage or to CC or IAS or something. I'd like something that said "Strength now boosts damage, but not armor". Or I'd like "Strength is now 3x as effective for armor" instead of STI. It's not like i'm not going to stack Dex.

I don't really want a Weapon Master or Ruthless type skill for Monks. I want a Critical Mass type passive that changes the way I play (not necessarily that exact passive, but something that makes me change how I play).

So the big issue I see with Monk passives s blandness, to be honest.

I couldn't possibly agree with you any more. +100
Edited by Druin#1518 on 2/11/2013 1:20 PM PST
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/Amen Druin.

Go look at the other classes passives for perspective. They need A LOT more help.

Yea, you're right. Barbs are really hurting for passives. As are Witch Doctors - man, they don't have any good passives.

/rolls eyes


I guess that is my point. I play a WD and for me they have so many good skill and passive combos that saying monks are "ok" just feels like an insult.

One of my friends geared out of OWE and he is enjoying pacifism. For me with only 3 slots, pacifism seems like a wasted slot when I can 1. Move out of the frozen. 2. Teleport out of jail. 3. If 1 or 2 fail use Serenity. I can't afford to drop OWE. I can't really afford upgrades currently as it is but OWE makes it a lot better.

I appreciate Druin and others given opinions on this.
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/Amen Druin.

Go look at the other classes passives for perspective. They need A LOT more help.


are you for reals?
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I agree that that passives do need some work, but also that after switching away from OWE, some of the other passives do come into play more now in various builds. Being able to switch between MP levels helps open this up some as well. In lower levels, I can disregard STI also, which can open things up more.

Honestly, I think adding some sort of lifesteal passive or additional lifesteal options in armor for a monk would be my main want, spirit generation issues my second, which could also be done by items btw (spirit regen on crit, for example).

The one comment I did not like was their concern about giving away 'OWE' as a free passive. While I don't disagree with them and I think that would be a wrong design move, at some point in time they thought it was just fine to gimp monks by 1 passive over the Wiz/WD and by 2 passives to the Barb. If you are going to live by trying to make things equal (not balanced, that is very difficult to achieve!), figure out a some additional passives for the classes and let's get them all on an equal playing field there.
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