Diablo® III

Emotions, outrage! You're embarrassing yourselves.

I just flipped through a few pages of the very popular http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7979928675 (10 reasons why this game is fail) and http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7979938071 (I don't get all the multi-platform negativity) posts.

I haven't learned anything I didn't already know about the majority of the people who spend their time writing on these forums. While this isn't groundbreaking news, and I know that it's impossible to argue rationally with irrational people, I feel the need to point out some observations.

On the whole, you all are embarrassing yourselves.

1) Arguments (if we could call them as much) based on opinions and devoid of any rational justification or contextual examples are worthless, unproductive, nonconstructive, and a waste of everyone's time to read. Things are not true just because you say they are! Your expectations that anyone, developer or otherwise, should respect your opinion and grant your wishes is ridiculous and unrealistic. If you want to see change, explain what you believe the problem to be, provide relevant examples, and propose reasonable solutions.

And here's a pro-tip for life: Never walk into your bosses office complaining about a problem unless you have at least a couple solutions in mind.

2) If you ask a question and get an answer - move on. People questioned whether the PC and console versions were developed in tandem, thus impacting the overall game design. A CM responded saying that this, in fact, was not the case. People then proceeded to tell the CM to stuff it and that they were rejecting reality and substituting their own. Well played!

I hope your future as a conspiracy theorist and author is long and productive. Perhaps you will make appearances on such programs as "Ghost Hunters" and "Ancient Aliens"!

3) There are tons of posts about how there is a "console agenda" and how games are dumbed down and simplified for consoles. I have yet to see one reasonable, fleshed out argument explaining why console games are inherently "dumbed down" and inferior to PC games.

The assertion has been made that, by virtue of existing on console, games are more simple and easier for the lay person to understand. I find this absolutely asinine - this opinion of console users is probably colored by the fact that consoles are easy to use, more commonly adopted in households, and are less powerful than a full bore gaming rig.

There are hundreds of games that are released on multiple platforms that are, in essence, exactly the same save for the graphical fidelity possible on a beast gaming rig. There are games with complicated systems that exist on console, there are games with skill trees, there are games with depth and learning curves. The end.

The D3 forums are not exactly the shining beacon of intelligence and video game savvy... so the idea that console games and console gamers are "dumber" than PC games and PC gamers is actually rather staggering.

You are not smarter or better than a a console gamer because your PC is hoss. Moreover, complicated things are not always better. Abandon this assumption - think about it with real life examples, and then reassess these thoughts.

So please, stop trolling yourselves and everyone else. Just stop.
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Whether D3 was dumped down for Playstation is not clear. What's clear is D3 is duped down version of D2 and was sold on hype of previous part. You can't stop this rage untill game is fixed and all people who grow up on d2 happy once again. But nice post ill give you that.
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Great post that will for the most part fall on deaf ears.
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02/26/2013 11:01 AMPosted by oOHYSTERIAOo
Whether D3 was dumped down for Playstation is not clear. What's clear is D3 is duped down version of D2 and was sold on hype of previous part. You can't stop this rage untill game is fixed and all people who grow up on d2 happy once again. But nice post ill give you that.


D3 is a different game from D2. It is not clear that D3 is a dumbed down version of D2 - that is your opinion.

If we don't accept the premise that D3 is a botched D2 clone, what are we saying it was dumbed down from? The whole "it's dumbed down because it has only 4 players" argument is silly. Any more players than that and you couldn't tell what the heck was going on in the game - I already can't see things when I'm playing with a CM wizard.

The "no skill tree" argument is pointless - there is nothing preventing the use of a skill tree on a console game. This was a game design choice, and you don't have to like it, but it has nothing to do with consoles.
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02/26/2013 11:06 AMPosted by Deadlight
Great post that will for the most part fall on deaf ears.


^

It's a valid post, I happen to agree with it. But you're trying to put out a fire with gasoline.
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02/26/2013 11:15 AMPosted by DaRupp
Great post that will for the most part fall on deaf ears.


^

It's a valid post, I happen to agree with it. But you're trying to put out a fire with gasoline.


We don't need no water, let the #^)&#$_#$@ burn!
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let me tell you what, this post is just great, and I am 100% in agreement, but we are clearly dealing with outrageous people. people that banked on having Diablo 3 be their entire lives for the next ten years. seriously. they have nothing else going for them to be concerned about, so this is it. it takes all forms: anger at business models, anger at feeling helpless, anger at themselves. we are watching them deal with the cold reality that most things in life are mediocre, and no one owes them anything.

congratulations on being a well-adjusted thoughtful individual though.
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02/26/2013 11:10 AMPosted by Deaded
Whether D3 was dumped down for Playstation is not clear. What's clear is D3 is duped down version of D2 and was sold on hype of previous part. You can't stop this rage untill game is fixed and all people who grow up on d2 happy once again. But nice post ill give you that.


D3 is a different game from D2. It is not clear that D3 is a dumbed down version of D2 - that is your opinion.

If we don't accept the premise that D3 is a botched D2 clone, what are we saying it was dumbed down from? The whole "it's dumbed down because it has only 4 players" argument is silly. Any more players than that and you couldn't tell what the heck was going on in the game - I already can't see things when I'm playing with a CM wizard.

The "no skill tree" argument is pointless - there is nothing preventing the use of a skill tree on a console game. This was a game design choice, and you don't have to like it, but it has nothing to do with consoles.


Please mate you can't argue with that. D2 had loads more content then d3 has and if you stick around in forums you know it damn well from posts explaining that from in and out. I'll give you only few examples. Itemisation is much poorer than it was in d2. Not funny afixes on items. Skill treas - yes different disign in d3 but where is levelling skills up? Synergies to skills? Stats allocation? Although it could be improved from d2 as people only stuck enough to wear things that dump it all in vit.

D3 is much poorer than d2. You can't argue with that.
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Please mate you can't argue with that. D2 had loads more content then d3 has and if you stick around in forums you know it damn well from posts explaining that from in and out. I'll give you only few examples. Itemisation is much poorer than it was in d2. Not funny afixes on items. Skill treas - yes different disign in d3 but where is levelling skills up? Synergies to skills? Stats allocation? Although it could be improved from d2 as people only stuck enough to wear things that dump it all in vit.

D3 is much poorer than d2. You can't argue with that.


You're right, generally you can't argue with opinions.
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Please mate you can't argue with that. D2 had loads more content then d3 has and if you stick around in forums you know it damn well from posts explaining that from in and out. I'll give you only few examples. Itemisation is much poorer than it was in d2. Not funny afixes on items. Skill treas - yes different disign in d3 but where is levelling skills up? Synergies to skills? Stats allocation? Although it could be improved from d2 as people only stuck enough to wear things that dump it all in vit.

D3 is much poorer than d2. You can't argue with that.


You're right, generally you can't argue with opinions.


Indeed!
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Posts: 16

Please mate you can't argue with that. D2 had loads more content then d3 has and if you stick around in forums you know it damn well from posts explaining that from in and out. I'll give you only few examples. Itemisation is much poorer than it was in d2. Not funny afixes on items. Skill treas - yes different disign in d3 but where is levelling skills up? Synergies to skills? Stats allocation? Although it could be improved from d2 as people only stuck enough to wear things that dump it all in vit.

D3 is much poorer than d2. You can't argue with that.


Yes, you can argue with that. It's very obvious that D3 is significantly better than D2. In fact, it's demonstrably obvious, and you yourself are the proof.

What are you doing right now? You're commenting on D3 forums -- and probably playing D3, or waiting to go home to play D3. You're probably not playing D2 at all anymore. If "D3 is much poorer than D2," which you seem to think is some fact of life instead of just your stupid opinion, then no one would be playing D3 at all and everyone would still be playing D2.
Edited by Convict#1744 on 2/26/2013 11:32 AM PST
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Posts: 414
PC games, back when dedicated PC developers existed (before the EAs, & Activisions of the world ate up all of the competing development studious), PC games were always more complex, offered strong learning curves and endless hours of gameplay, utilized the dozens of keys on a keyboard, and the PCs superior memory & processing speed.

Ask anybody who has played an RPG like the original Fallout series on their computers back in the late 90s/early 2000s, vs games like the Final Fantasy series which were developed for console, for example.

Ask anybody who has played turn-based strategy games, like Heroes of Might & Magic 3 on pc vs a game like final fantasy tactics.

Ask anybody who has played a simulation style game on pc like the original ms flight simulator (which has been shut down), or rollercoaster tycoon vs games like them park on console, and hardcore simulators don't even exist on console.

Ask anybody who has played a game like Path of Exile on pc, vs a clearly dumbed down one-size-fits-all action game like Diablo 3 which was made for consoles.

PC games are more complex, more hardcore, more learning curve, and have more soul. Console gamers (by virtue of the types of games made on console) are preteens who play popamole style, where pretty much any thinking or problem solving in a game is gone, where a "game" is more like an interactive movie than a game.
Edited by PartyAnimal#1845 on 2/26/2013 11:36 AM PST
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Uh oh, I've done all of the above and I still enjoy D3! (minus the one that... wasn't really a point?)

Even better? I'm not a preteen. Going on 31 here shortly!

I bet this is the part where the 'True Scotsman' argument is going to come in.
Edited by Demetirus#1677 on 2/26/2013 11:39 AM PST
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PC games, back when dedicated PC developers existed (before the EAs, & Activisions of the world ate up all of the competing development studious), PC games were always more complex, offered strong learning curves and endless hours of gameplay, utilized the dozens of keys on a keyboard, and the PCs superior memory & processing speed.

Ask anybody who has played an RPG like the original Fallout series on their computers back in the late 90s/early 2000s, vs games like the Final Fantasy series which were developed for console, for example.

Ask anybody who has played turn-based strategy games, like Heroes of Might & Magic 3 on pc vs a game like final fantasy tactics.

Ask anybody who has played a simulation style game on pc like the original ms flight simulator (which has been shut down), or rollercoaster tycoon vs games like them park on console, and hardcore simulators don't even exist on console.

Ask anybody who has played a game like Path of Exile on pc, vs a clearly dumbed down one-size-fits-all action game like Diablo 3 which was made for consoles.


You're doing the whole, "my opinion is fact" thing again.

I happened to like Final Fantasy Tactics - I thought it was a brilliant strategy game. Here's the rub: you won't catch me telling you that because I think it's better than Heroes of Might and Magic 3, consoles are better than PCs.
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Posts: 16
PC games, back when dedicated PC developers existed (before the EAs, & Activisions of the world ate up all of the competing development studious), PC games were always more complex, offered strong learning curves and endless hours of gameplay, utilized the dozens of keys on a keyboard, and the PCs superior memory & processing speed.

Ask anybody who has played an RPG like the original Fallout series on their computers back in the late 90s/early 2000s, vs games like the Final Fantasy series which were developed for console, for example.

Ask anybody who has played turn-based strategy games, like Heroes of Might & Magic 3 on pc vs a game like final fantasy tactics.

Ask anybody who has played a simulation style game on pc like the original ms flight simulator (which has been shut down), or rollercoaster tycoon vs games like them park on console, and hardcore simulators don't even exist on console.

Ask anybody who has played a game like Path of Exile on pc, vs a clearly dumbed down one-size-fits-all action game like Diablo 3 which was made for consoles.

PC games are more complex, more hardcore, more learning curve, and have more soul. Console gamers (by virtue of the types of games made on console) are preteens who play popamole style, where pretty much any thinking or problem solving in a game is gone, where a "game" is more like an interactive movie than a game.


It is obvious that console games are much more complicated than PC games. Trust me. PC games are for nerds who want to think they're better than other gamers, that's it. Ask anybody. It's true because I'm emotional about it.
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Posts: 414
Consoles are fisher price versions of PC...you like that style of gaming (easy/dumbed down/games made for lowest common denominator), more power to you.

But don't try to make an argument that console games are anywhere near as deep as pc games (not console games ported to PC, but actual pc games developed for pc -- games Blizzard used to make).

When I was a preteen I used to like dumbed down japanese/console RPGs like Final Fantasy myself. That was ofcourse until I got old enough to buy/build my own PC, and was able to play RPGs like Arcanum or Torment on PC (late 90s/early 2000s). The difference is staggering.

It's like the difference of growing up on Kraft's Mac & Cheese -- it's sooo good when your 12 years old, until you get a little older and can appreciate the taste of real pasta at a fine Italian cuisine.
Edited by PartyAnimal#1845 on 2/26/2013 11:59 AM PST
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You like fisher price style games, and that's your prerogative. Best to you.

But don't try to make an argument that console games are anywhere near as deep as pc games that were actually developed for the PC.

HMoM3 was exponentially deeper.

When I was a preteen I used to like dumbed down japanese/console RPGs like Final Fantasy myself. That was ofcourse until I got old enough to buy my own PC, and was able to play RPGs like Arcanum or Torment on PC (late 90s/early 2000s). Night and day difference.

It's like the difference of growing up on Kraft's Mac & Cheese -- it's sooo good, until you get older and eat pasta at a fine Italian cuisine.


Thank you for making the whole premise of my initial post with your awful response.

You're aware, I'm sure, that not all games on console are sequences of scripted action set pieces. There are games like that, but they are not exclusive to the console.

You can be demeaning all you want, it doesn't actually lend any weight to your opinion.
Edited by Deaded#1753 on 2/26/2013 11:59 AM PST
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Deaded, I like your posts. Weren't you responsible for the "D2 trading the same as the AH" post also?

I like your style, darupp#1969 if you want to hang in game.
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People questioned whether the PC and console versions were developed in tandem, thus impacting the overall game design. A CM responded saying that this, in fact, was not the case. People then proceeded to tell the CM to stuff it and that they were rejecting reality and substituting their own. Well played!



The CM only denied that Diablo 3 was developed with console in mind from the beginning. The possibility still remains that somewhere in the middle of development, they decided to include consoles and changed their development because of it. There is no rejection of reality going on, just different interpretations of the CM's carefully worded response.

The topic of dumbing down can't really be argued, as what is considered "dumbed down" is highly subjective and we could sit here going back and forth listing off examples that one person may say is a "dumbed down" game and another may say isn't. There is no argument to be had there, but that doesn't mean you are necessarily correct in believing they don't cause a "dumbing down" of PC games.

Finally, you complain about emotions and outrage of people, yet your post seems highly emotional and makes it seem like you are filled with outrage. In addition, you claim people should stop looking down on others for their preferences, yet your entire post comes off as extremely condescending purely because you believe things that are contrary to what others believe.
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Deaded, I like your posts. Weren't you responsible for the "D2 trading the same as the AH" post also?

I like your style, darupp#1969 if you want to hang in game.


I was!

I'll hit you up in game some time.
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