Diablo® III

Barbarian game balancing

Even with BIG crit chances (with something like Natalya's), I'm pretty sure the maximum amount of crit chance you can get with HotA is about 80-90%.
- That's not 100%, no matter how you put it. You can get in an unlucky streak and not crit for 4-5 attacks and be left with half your Fury capacity (and even smaller chance to not crit - and I'm not even mentioning the chance to return Fury yet).

- Unless you use Overpower and Revenge with increased crit chance (and for added AoE dmg). Check the 4th point then about skillset limitation.

Extremely small AoE
- It's very rare to be able to hit multiple elites, and absolutely impossible if they have big hitboxes (Tremors, Hulking Phasebeasts, etc.). Dealing with Trash mobs takes quite some time with just HotA. You'd need to have another spender/AoE like Seismic Slam. Or an AoE generator (and miss out on the dmg bonus from Frenzy/Bash runes).

The Fury return isn't guaranteed (Smash doesn't have a 1.0 proc ratio)
- Good luck with the build without a generator at all. Let me know how that goes when you're out of Fury.

The build requires a specific skillset
- Namely those that improve your crit chance/crit dmg (2 passives), and then Battle Rage with Into the Fray, and then you can't really use WotB with infinite duration, You may be able to add War Cry in there, and then Overpower and Revenge for added crit/AoE.

But you're still left with a build that has almost 0 dmg mitigation (only 1 passive, no Ignore Pain), 0 mobility (no Sprint or Leap), almost no team utility (except for the mandatory War Cry, no stun/taunt/Threatening-Shout/Ancient-Spear).

They could reduce the AoE of Smash even further (make it 100% single target) OR reduce the proc ratio, that should prevent people from spamming 50 HotA in a row (which I presume is what you want).

I think you're just jealous of a fellow Barbarian critting for 1.5 mil with every attack while you can't do jack with your crappy DH.
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When did they make hammer the largest attack ability, did they remove earthquake and wrath. Do you have any idea how much gear it takes to get HOTA running reasonably, not everyone has billions of gold. What would be the point of cutting damage in half, I can regular hit for that. What about infinite archon and tempest rush forever, stop trying to break other peoples classes.
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Every class has build(s) that can be considered OP when you throw BILLIONS of gold into them.

What class do you play, what is a link to your profile.

Edit: I have seen CM wizards with 30k hps survive MP10 'with ease', is that the next target on your agenda ?
Edited by Shango#1124 on 3/1/2013 8:55 PM PST
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i know from experience that Barbs are OP i have myself one made up with 2m and can crit a lot for 400k.. its.. impressive.. also my WD can crit really high.. although neither of them has high DPS.. with my wizard i made it with a lot of res, crit dmg, and crit chance.. if my dps said 190k.. i hit 400k top.. with more money invested.. and a crt dmg as high as my other classes..

But the problem there its not the gear.. its the skills the %multiplier dmg from wizard skills are really low in comparision..

I do not agree in nerfing.. i agree in buffing the other classes.. we want to smash the hell out of mobs.. not backwards..

If you guys bring PvP to the discussion.. think the way inferno its made.. PvP can lower those %.. like the defences, dmg, block, dodge and stuff like that..
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because wizards can't infinitely spam tornadoes or meteors on frozen targets and infinitely regenerating their resource
because monks cant infinitely spam bells using a very similar build style to the barbs hammer spec
because witch doctors cant spam dogs or bears all day (yes bear has some downtime)

Everyone has it.

p.s.
love all of these builds, wouldn't change anything
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Game balancing is very hard to achieve in action RPG such as Diablo 3, with such huge variety, mechanics that makes contributes to such complexity. Having a "balance" game across different classes are hard to achieve.

I suggest if you want a balance game, I'll recommend games such as Chess or Tic Tac Toe. Hell, even those two games aren't balance.
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There's a reason why most barbs are still using WW, and not Hota. It's pretty situational, best for ubers. Takes quite a bit longer to kill trash.
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The Barbarian as a class is in need of some modification with the hammer of the ancients build.
Right now a barbarian with proper gear for the build no longer auto attacks while having 100% crit chance on a 406% weapon damage attack with the attack actually generating fury vs costing fury to cast.

The reasoning for the need of a change to this skill is because the design is not in line with dps compared to any other class regardless of build except for maybe infinite zombie dogs or also know as 0 dogs. The barbarian class with the right amount of gear required for this build breaks the game in the since of game balance. all other classes even with items such as SoJ and Mara's have their largest attack ability sitting either on a cool down or have a fairly expensive cost equaling to 50% of their resource bar. Even with out the additional items to remove/reduce the cost from hammer of the ancients it only costs 1/5 of the fury bar.
None of these part of hammer of the ancients are to powerful alone, but when the attack becomes a fury generator even against destructible items while having a 100% critical hit chance as a 406% weapon damage attack with no cool down it becomes a problem of game balance.
Then make it aoe.......

To bring the ability in line with the rest of the game I propose these changes to the skill.
Increase fury cost by 10
reduce base damage to 206%
reduce smash to make 306% in total

What these three changes will do with out destroying the build in the least is this. The attack would now only generate fury on 2 or more mobs so they may no longer be able to recast a 406% weapon damage attack as a fury generator on a single target while still viable for multiple targets.
The weapon damage MUST be brought down, no one has an attack they can cast over and over with 100% resource gain and no loss and 100% critical hit chance while cost only equaling 1/5th of the maximum resource bar.

I am sure I will have player response of how expensive it is to accomplish this build. Price is not what I am trying to address but actual game balance.

Wyatt Cheng said in an interview how he likes the concept of a player feeling they have broken the game by taking an ability to the extreme(ex:cm wiz, 0 dog, HoA) and I agree such things are very fun, but he also touched on how they also do not intend to allow players to create such type of infinite spells or combos to be left in en-defiantly. Does the blizzard staff intend to go in the same direction of game balance as they intended when asked in previous interviews or has there been a change in the census?


Have you ever even played with this build? When the hammer is being used the Barb is not mobile. You say no other class can spam such a high percentage skill over and over but tell me what happens in between the time a barb sees an enemy and then uses the skill? Thats right the barb is getting attacked while he is running towards the enemy and if he doesnt have enough defenses or is on a high mp level he will die before he even uses the skill. That is why it is so powerful. Also the smash radius is extremely small. Sure for ubers its a great build or for some powerful elites but against a screen full of enemies it is quite tedious to use. But you wouldnt know that because you dont have to try you can just look at the numbers and figure out its infinitely spammable, once the barb's fury is all the way up that is..

Also please realize the devs have changed this skill in the class balance patch. As in they changed it fundamentally so that people can make this build. And only after the right gear is had. Meaning if you just start a barbarian you cant just start spamming away. So either you have to put in a ton of hours to accomplish this build or dual weild credit cards so to speak. Tell me, when youve been playing a barb for two to three hundred hours and and sold a bunch of stuff on the AH that you have found to buy the correct gear, wouldnt you agree that your barb should have atleast one skill that can destroy everything?

This is just a thread stating your disagreement with the dev's decision to give a barb a powerful end game skill. And a skill that requires youre fury to be 100% first, melee distance and super tiny radius.
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This is not an MMO

/Thread
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tbh i have been using this build for a verry long time, when ever i get bored of ww.

I cant believe your going to complain about this , or maybe you just dont wana sound like everyone else with the QQ wwbarb post. Either way you should go home to mama, this isnt wow or starcrap where everything needs to be ballenced. And this build sure as hell isnt game breaking.
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@OP, obviously you know nothing about the build and all the blah blah’s were based on your theories/tootips, we all agree that one can perma Wrath/Hota with the right set of gears which had been mentioned on the previous post but I may ask you - Have you ever played the barb class or better yet HoTa-Smash/Thunderstrike? If not then you don’t have the authority to suggest that it be adjusted ‘cause as per my first hand experience playing the build in group plays, I take s@#$load of melee and elemental damage thereby reducing the current damage it makes is just telling me to stop using the build. As a tanker I need to dish out huge number of damage to compensate for being exposed to every type of damage from monsters which I believe is balance enough.

HoTA build can’t kite(even if we reposition how can you do that with plague, arcane and fire), can’t dish out damage from afar so by asking adjustment to the damage it make is just like killing the build.

Go and play a HoTA barb so you will know that it’s balance to where it is now.
Edited by RazorX#2330 on 3/1/2013 10:20 PM PST
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OP, these threads are becoming very old.

Barb this...Barb that...If it's one thing Blizzard's trying, it's class balancing. I'm sure you weren't complaining Pre 1.03 right? Get over it, it's like a circle. Put your effort into something more productive rather than being concerned over another class' strength.
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The problem is not that barbs need to be nerfed, they need to buff other classes to bring them inline with the barb in terms of power. Every class in the game should have a HOA type build that becomes super powerful. You are supposed to feel like godlike ravager of demons like the Nephalem are. Blizzard just needs to buff and tweak all the other classes.
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Posts: 751
this is not a competition game, soo what is the problem??...

Come on man, get a life
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03/01/2013 11:40 AMPosted by koji
like this game need more nerfs right ?


Yes, to the players for a change.
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03/01/2013 11:16 PMPosted by Draxiss
The problem is not that barbs need to be nerfed, they need to buff other classes to bring them inline with the barb in terms of power. Every class in the game should have a HOA type build that becomes super powerful. You are supposed to feel like godlike ravager of demons like the Nephalem are. Blizzard just needs to buff and tweak all the other classes.


Game feels utterly boring then, where's the challenge?
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Posts: 3,113
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I kind of like that build and thought it might be good instead of dancing around like sissy., but cry for more nerfs...typical whining might get you something here.

And I loved the ToC for my DH..haha..but adjusted fine without whining like a little g.. kid.
Edited by dawgiestyle#1127 on 3/2/2013 3:09 AM PST
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Hey OP. It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Stop hiding behind your profile. It has been my experience that the people who think they know whats "best for the game" and have some delusional fantasy that they belong on the development team, have not achieved any sort of success with their characters and therefore demand others be brought down, way down, to their level. It just might get you a little more respect/consideration. BTW I don't use HOTA and probably never will.
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Who uses HOTA or WW? I throw my weapons all the way through mp5, piss on weapons.
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I disagree for one because it is very hard to find enough gear to be defensive enough to use it and two this game has had enough nerfs.
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