Diablo® III

How to Improve the Quality of Loot Without Quantity!

If I was once rolling between 10 and 200 and are instead now rolling between 109 and 200, I have taken out the chance to roll between 10 and 108 so that part of the RNG factor just completely disappears.I'm not talking about raising your chance to find a certain affix, I'm talking about in the instance where you do happen to roll the desired affix, it's a great roll instead of having a chance to be mediocre.


Your way could work but I want just the opposite.
I want a mighty belt(barb only item) to ALWAYS have stregnth. Let the rng part determine how much str within the range.

That way if I DO find a legendary mighty belt its gonna be usefull if not perfect.
Then I will grind and grind untill I find a perfect one, if ever.

usefull NOW. perfection later.
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Your way could work but I want just the opposite.
I want a mighty belt(barb only item) to ALWAYS have stregnth. Let the rng part determine how much str within the range.

That way if I DO find a legendary mighty belt its gonna be usefull if not perfect.
Then I will grind and grind untill I find a perfect one, if ever.

usefull NOW. perfection later.

Funny thing you say that, because that's something I had suggested a very long time ago.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6413174924

I think here maybe? I'm too tired to read hundreds of threads. =(

Basically somewhere at sometime, I said "Class specific items should be guaranteed a primary stat for that class"

Itemization is an issue I've been at odds with for a very long time.
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dude the question is...programing wise...how the hell do you intend of adding a chance to roll something from something else random ?....

Let's say that you roll IAS after a rng process, how the hell do you intend to add a chance that the next random generation would be better...influencing this thing would just be game breaking....
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dude the question is...programing wise...how the hell do you intend of adding a chance to roll something from something else random ?....

Let's say that you roll IAS after a rng process, how the hell do you intend to add a chance that the next random generation would be better...influencing this thing would just be game breaking....

That's not what I suggested.

This is all I suggested. If when you roll an item, you get let's say Vitality on it. That item has a chance to roll between 10 - 200 Vitality.

All you would have to do from a programmer's perspective is just add a multiplier on the lower threshold.

Usually when you create a random number generator, you're not rolling a number between X and X, you're rolling a number between 0 and 1. So you will generate a list of number like this.

.109101823
.987987234
.123980014
.341987912
.790809850

So how do you tell the program to let's say roll a number between 1 and 10? That's easy.

You simply follow a formula like this.

(Max Value - Min Value + 1) * Random Number + Min Value

For example, 1 - 10 would be like this.

(10 - 1 + 1) * Random Number + 1

So how do you change that min max value?

Simple
(Max Value - (Min Value * (Magic Find + 1)) + 1) * Random Number + (Min Value * (Magic Find + 1))

It's not very complex and it's actually quite simple to do and doesn't create a lot of overhead.

So I'm not talking about a system where Magic Find increases your ability to let's say find something like Crit Chance, but rather when you do actually find Crit Chance, it's going to be on the higher end of the spectrum.
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03/03/2013 01:58 AMPosted by Drothvader
Basically somewhere at sometime, I said "Class specific items should be guaranteed a primary stat for that class"


Because that is not exactly what I am getting at.

I want a guaranteed AFFIX, NOT necessarily a "main stat" affix.
Not even necessarily a STAT, just a guaranteed and usefull (for a barbarian in my example above)affix.
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03/03/2013 02:13 AMPosted by sheltem
Basically somewhere at sometime, I said "Class specific items should be guaranteed a primary stat for that class"


Because that is not exactly what I am getting at.

I want a guaranteed AFFIX, NOT necessarily a "main stat" affix.
Not even necessarily a STAT, just a guaranteed and usefull (for a barbarian in my example above)affix.

Same thing more or less.

For example, guaranteeing that all Wizard Helms have AP on Crit.

The point is, class specific items are terrible with the exception of Offhands like Sources, Quivers, and Mojos.

I can't remember exactly what I said or where I said it, the point is I said it at some point >.<
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What stops people just having a narrower range for which they consider an item to be good? Your solution doesn't solve that problem. What will happen is that initially people will be quite happy as they will be finding better rares and getting some upgrades but after that initial period we'll be back in the same spot we are now with people being unhappy that most of the items they pick up are trash compared to the items they currently have/want.

I think it's a problem with itemization, class skills and a lackluster crafting system that was summed up reasonably well in the OP of thread you quoted from.

There is no simple fix.
Edited by powpowsick#2212 on 3/3/2013 2:31 AM PST
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As it stands now I feel like I am losing gold by spending the time to pick up rares. I get more gold skipping rares and picking up only gold and legendary items.
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yes..your solution solves the problem probably for people like me, who have buget gear and looking for improvement everywere...People who invested in gear and have already best in slot looking for excelent in slot or looking for other ways of playing the game have no real use for the change...The problem lies in itemization as a whole, were people look for specific stats on ALL WEAPONS...You have no alternatives...since you have to get max dps to beat mp10 and enough ehp...And after you do that...The game is dead...No other way of playing your char, no more items or cool builds to try...
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You want to force everybody to MP10? Once everybody arrived a power level, do you think your "rare" is still worth to pick up? problem doesn't solve.
Edited by MADTHUNDER2#3452 on 3/3/2013 4:10 AM PST
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You will still end up getting max str/dex voodoo masks, mega int might belts etc. Won't help anything as long as the junk affixes stay
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The only problem is every single Legendary I've found has been worthless. (Gauntlets, Ivory Tower, Thing of the Deep ect) Basically instant Brimstones.


the only class you don't have a level 60 char of is the wd so you probably don't know this but the thing of the deep is one of the legendary items in the game that are actually a perfect example of how legendary items in d3 should be. it defines a very popular wd farming build and although it is not necessary for the build to work it makes it easier in that you have more options for the rest of you gear.

so please don't call it worthless.
Edited by HeavenlySky#2568 on 3/3/2013 4:57 AM PST
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Drothvader,

Not saying that your idea wouldnt work,depending on how hard it would be to code.

I do agree that its not the drop RATE thats a problem but more the drop quality. I think most players can agree on this.

Your Idea though is simply not necessary. In the context of DIABLO games, "rare" does not actually mean rare. It is basically just a higher "magic quality" than the Blue items.

For instance if you have that much MF at your equivalent lvl (92-95 say) in D2 you would find lots and lots of Yellow "rare" items that would be both useless to your characters, and valueless for trade.
And this was not a problem in D2. And it should not be a problem in D3.


It's pretty obvious you added nothing to the conversation... just merely trying to shoot down the OP as best you can... which was pretty fail. Argue more semantics.
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MF is NOT a measure of QUALITY with respect to legendary items. They have a fixed number of affixes, with the rolls being completely independent from magic find - they are entirely random.


You need to go read up more on MF. Quality is Magic... Rare 4 affix, Rare 5 affix, Rare 6 affix, Legendary. The more MF you have the better the quality of the item that drops. MF doesn't affect the value of rolls on ANY item.
Edited by BannedName#1439 on 3/3/2013 11:40 AM PST
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Instead of Magic Find increasing the chance to find a rare or legendary item, what if it instead tightened up the loot rolls for you?


Dude you realize that this would just result in more whites and blues and even if the blues had high loot rolls no-one would care. I would prefer that the affix level of the items (which are determined by the monster's level) to be the deciding factor that tightens up the loot rolls. Alternatively the magic find in addition to increasing the chance of a rare or legendary item could also increase the minimum roll thereby tightening the loot rolls.

As for class specific items maybe guaranteeing that it has the core stat and vit is asking a bit much but at the very least make it impossible for the other 2 stats to spawn on that item. Eg for wizard items make it impossible for dex and strength to appear on those items in a similar way to how APoC can't appear on non-wizard items (with the exception of the legendary wizardspike dagger) or like how lifesteal can only spawn on weapons and barb belts and no other items.

I mean RNG is RNG but I also believe in RNG with constraints (examples of RNG with constraints would be the above mentioned APoC appearing on wizard only items and the wizardspike dagger, and lifesteal appearing only on weapons and Barb belts). They need to introduce more constraints for the RNG of items both for the affixes and the affix roll ranges in order to make them consistently better so 99.98% of loot won't be vendor trash.
Edited by jling28#1549 on 3/3/2013 1:00 PM PST
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the only class you don't have a level 60 char of is the wd so you probably don't know this but the thing of the deep is one of the legendary items in the game that are actually a perfect example of how legendary items in d3 should be. it defines a very popular wd farming build and although it is not necessary for the build to work it makes it easier in that you have more options for the rest of you gear.

so please don't call it worthless.

The one I got was pretty worthless.

Not even worth 400k.

http://i.imgur.com/77737fA.jpg

No socket or Vitality.

03/03/2013 12:57 PMPosted by jling28
Dude you realize that this would just result in more whites and blues and even if the blues had high loot rolls no-one would care. I would prefer that the affix level of the items (which are determined by the monster's level) to be the deciding factor that tightens up the loot rolls. Alternatively the magic find in addition to increasing the chance of a rare or legendary item could also increase the minimum roll thereby tightening the loot rolls.

Yes, it would result in more whites and blues. However, you could make less items drop overall, but increase the chance for legendary items and rares to appear while allowing overall the same number of drops.

The only thing level 63 monsters do in that respect is allow you to raise the max end of the threshold for rolls.

You want to force everybody to MP10? Once everybody arrived a power level, do you think your "rare" is still worth to pick up? problem doesn't solve.

You're kidding yourself if you aren't already forced into MP10. You're already far less efficient if you aren't farming there.

The only thing in the current system that makes MP10 balance out with the rest of the game is the fact that you get a bonus item roll. If you took that away, MP10 would be worthless under both systems.

I have not changed the value of MP10 under this proposal. It is still just like everything else.
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Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
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Define "quality" items ? Items good enough for you to finish the game ? Items good enough for you to do high MP ? Because they are all easy accessible already.

The think is players will always refer to the top 1% items as quality and if those very items were common then they wouldn't be referred as quality and wouldn't be desirable.

So every time you increase drop quality the only think you achieve is inflation.

Or you give that 1% top items to everyone but then you will ruin the game.
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Define "quality" items ? Items good enough for you to finish the game ? Items good enough for you to do high MP ? Because they are all easy accessible already.

The think is players will always refer to the top 1% items as quality and if those very items were common then they wouldn't be referred as quality and wouldn't be desirable.

So every time you increase drop quality the only think you achieve is inflation.

Or you give that 1% top items to everyone but then you will ruin the game.

There's a great number of things that need changed. I'm not going to pretend this is the be all end all solution. I'm suggesting it's one way to give us less items but higher quality items.
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This is a endless problem, as soon as everyone gets the superior range of drops, people will want a further superior range. The problem is the AH and always will be.
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