Diablo® III

Buff mana return skills

While there are many posts about how to "fix" WD's mana issues, no solution has been satisfactory for me.

There is the "mana on hit" solution, but that only makes the one handed option a clearly superior option with both DPS and sustain. And this also makes ROT and AC OP due to their high proc rate thus devaluing actual designed mana return options like Widowmakers.

There is also the "mana steal" option, but it does not fit the class very well and just makes the item which grants mana steal mandatory. Again it makes designed mana return options like Devouring Swarm pointless since you can just deal more damage and steal more mana with Searing Locusts.

No my WD brothers, the real issue is that some of our designed mana returning options DO NOT SCALE and are obsolete with the increase in mob HP. The below list is a modest buff to those skills with commentary on their usage and skill/gear synergy. The examples are based on the average WD with 150K DPS, 2500 INT and 800 mana.

1. Spined Dart - 0.5% mana steal, reduced to 0.1% by inferno penalty.

This skill returns about 150 mana per second for the average WD and is suitable for all builds as long as they have good DPS. But it takes all your "attack turns" so you are not using you best DPS spell (bears) while you are using this.

2. Widowmakers - the base skill itself should be changed so the spiders always lasts 3 seconds instead of by damage dealed.

This is the mana on hit option. Stacking more IAS allows more spiders thus increasing mana regeneration. Assuming spiders attack once per second and have 2 IAS, the mana return is 96 mana per second. But it takes all your "attack turns" so you are not using you best DPS spell (bears) while you are using this. This option beats Spined Darts when you have 3 IAS or more, which is a lot of IAS, but given that they continue to work for 3 seconds after the last cast means you have more mana overall.

3. Ruthless Terror - 12% mana pool for every enemy hit

Assuming average of 7 targets are hit, gains 672 mana per cast, 42 mana per second. Suitable for those with higher mana pools.

4. Swallow Your Soul - 10% mana pool for every enemy hit

Assuming 5 targets cap, gains 400 mana per cast, 27 mana per second. Suitable for those with higher mana pools. It is purposely weaker than Ruthless Terror because frankly Soul Harvast is a superior skill.

5. Draining Spirit - INT / 100 + 20 mana per second.

Averages 35 mana per second. Suitable for those with higher INT. Very good against elites are it is a cast and forget spell that increases your mana regeneration significantly as long as you keep 3 or more targets cursed.

6. Devouring Swarm - INT / 100 + 40 mana per enemy hit.

Assuming average of 7 targets are hit, gains 385 mana per cast. Very good in getting mana back. The only draw back is the speed at which locusts spread, thus it is suitable at very high MP where even whites take time to kill.

7. Rain Dance - 100% mana per second.

It has limited range and duration of 20 seconds and 123 mana per second is already quite close to unlimited for Skorn users. So just also make it unlimited for our IAS stacking brothers.
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 3/18/2013 5:36 PM PDT
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all your mana return skills should be returning mana over time as well. ie it increases mana generation the more you use it. kind of like well of souls + rush of essence so the end result is like spamming 1 mana skill gives you fuel to spam bears for a whole minute
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Mana on crit would be nice, other classes gets resources from crit, WD's should do the same.
Ppl say that wd's should gear and play the class right for mana regen, but if you take the barb you get fury on crit, barbs stacks crit and ias and go dualwield with fast weps and fury is no prob, keeping up WOTB and get high dps from those items also. WD's have to have have max mana/mana regen gear to do well in high mps with the cost of high dps, WD's should also be able to stack crit and ias to get higher dps, WD's should be able to go with mempo and fast black weapons like barbs.
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03/19/2013 03:18 AMPosted by chrisloup
all your mana return skills should be returning mana over time as well. ie it increases mana generation the more you use it. kind of like well of souls + rush of essence so the end result is like spamming 1 mana skill gives you fuel to spam bears for a whole minute


Options. Some of the skills like spined darts return more mana at the disadvantage of not getting it over time. Useful for ubers.

Mana on crit would be nice, other classes gets resources from crit, WD's should do the same.
Ppl say that wd's should gear and play the class right for mana regen, but if you take the barb you get fury on crit, barbs stacks crit and ias and go dualwield with fast weps and fury is no prob, keeping up WOTB and get high dps from those items also. WD's have to have have max mana/mana regen gear to do well in high mps with the cost of high dps, WD's should also be able to stack crit and ias to get higher dps, WD's should be able to go with mempo and fast black weapons like barbs.


Widowmaker is mana on hit. An upgrade from mana on critical as it is not dependent on CC or proc rates. As said in the OP, mana on critical makes high proc rate skills work too effectively and the roles of mana return skills list here will be diminished.
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Tbh i have never tryed widowmaker, but i have played barb with 300k dps and over 50% crit, and with in to the fray its easy to keep the fury up, i mean wd's should have a rune like that also, for example on soul harvest, a rune that gives mana on crit in the window soul harvest is up (30sec).

I have problems with mana in higher MP's (mp7+), but ofc i could switch to Skorn since i atm have a fast attackspeed.

My WD: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Everdream-2838/hero/23945575
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alright all this and that sounds nice. the easiest thing to do is simply increase passive regeneration speed on regeneration skills. Well of souls stacks right, but the speed of that mana return is the same damned speed. so all the stacking in the world is useless if it's not returning any faster.

We need faster regeneration.
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as a mana class , we should manage mana
we should be able to
1, burn they up for short time high DPS and leave u oom for some time
2, keep mid-level DPS with unlimited mana

if the short term DPS worth the downtime after that , why we need ask for mana re-gen ?
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Blood Ritual + Rush of Essence + Helm & Mojo with regen + 4 sets Zuni + Stone of Jordan for SB WoS vs ubers and elites.

If you have high max mana pool, then replace Rush of Essence with Spiritual Attunement. Also drop Rush if you don't use Spirit Barrage.

This combo allows me to spam bears till everything is dead without OOM. Unless vs runners + extra health + shielding
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Or you could just buff the base mana regen.
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would be nice if they reduce cool down of bbv to something like 60 or 90 seconds so rain dance could be more effective.
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03/19/2013 09:33 PMPosted by Yodogg
Or you could just buff the base mana regen.


That was buffed to 40 from 20 some patch ago.

In any case, buffing base mana regeneratio would not increase build diversity nor is it scalable.
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No need to buff mana regen. Just decrease mana cost for zb to 125. Problem solved.
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