Diablo® III

Bring back the Skill Tree please

Darksiders/ DmC have more rpg elements than D3. That alone says a lot about this game and to what kind of gamer it was designed.
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Go play Marvel Heroes. That's the true sequal to Diablo 2 if you want skill trees
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03/28/2013 09:19 AMPosted by GeminiEclips
As long as skill trees use points to increase damage then the only optimal way to play, besides using one point wonders, is to put as many points into as few skills as possible. It reduces choices.


Yes because being able to use 6 active skills is so much more choice than being able to hotkey up to 8 active skills from F1 to F8. For example with my necromancer I would use a variety of curses depending on the situation like amplify damage, or iron maiden as well as raising an entire army of skeleton warriors, revives and 1 golem. With my sorceress I would teleport around like a boss spam my Frozen Orb or fireball depending on the monsters, but I would also use other skills, telekinesis to loot stuff at a distance, static field to quickly reduce a bosses health down.
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There is customization in the form of what skills you select and what items you use. Exactly the same as D2. The only difference is you can respec your character easier now without having to reroll.

Re-rolling killed D2 for me. I hated that part. Not all of us have endless time. Heck to get 1 of each class in D3 up to 60 + a decent paragon level takes more then enough effort already. I don't need another reason.
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I feel its a false assumption to assume skill trees offer no customization, only bringing an illusion to customization with only 1-2 viable paths. This is an example of a terrible skill tree, and this was D2 for a long time, even after the fixes it still was flawed.

I feel skill trees provide a unique adventure and re-playability that diablo 3 just does not have. Sure I can mess around and try wacky ability mixes at will, but is that customization? Not at all. We are all the same character with the same options to mix it around for fine tuning battles, or for bordeum. 0 re-playability on the characters and no unique feel. Sure you can say my loadout is unique, but its actually not when 100% of other players have access to it and can change to it in town.
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To make every skill on a skill tree viable, you need to make each ability a percentage instead of a static value, so you can balance and scale perfectly from early game to end game.

There is also the issue of capstones. With skill trees you want at least 3 different paths that are very different in nature, so it feels like real choices. You also want to reward your players with a powerful ultimate ability when you finally reach the end of your skill tree. This was how diablo 2 and WoW was designed, but the one major flaw being a limitation on customization. The skill trees ended up being a rush to the capstone, and you end up with 3 different characters for the same class, with only minor choice variations that mattered little.

I can come up with numerous alternatives to this bread and stone system that has been the standard for blizzard over the era, but I am not trying to get creative here. One small change would be to offer 2 different capstone choices for each path, but you can only select one. With careful and planned balanced for each one, with the promise of patching if something proved to be off. I feel blizzard has been to quick to settle and address the issues the skill tree system needs to be addressing. And I also feel completely abandoning the system was not the proper course of action.
Edited by IloveJesus#1307 on 3/28/2013 10:15 AM PDT
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actually, leveling a new toon to respec isn't really an issue here. recently, i re-installed D2 and found out there was an option to reset all skill points by talking to Akara.
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I outlined how a system like that works here:

us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8480588270#13


I like your idea, and will be excited to log in again if they implement it.


Thanks! I think everyone else went straight to the D2 vs D3 poo flinging without bothering to look lol.

If anyone is interested, what a completely flexible system like D3 lacks is risk, or opportunity cost; simply choosing a set of skills and runes isn't the same thing as building a set of skills and runes over time, that you can then pick and choose from in a flexible manner. What a permanent choice system like D2 lacks is dynamism; you have to pick a path from literally day one and stick with it, with no deviation.

I tried to come up with a happy medium starting with the D3 system as-is as a base, it isn't a new system from scratch. It puts some elbow grease back into the skill system, but you get a more flexible skill set than D3 currently offers as a payoff. And as an added perk turns the skills and runes into dropped items - more phat loot to find, more things to trade, and it could form the basis of a runeword system if Blizzard ever wants to bring runewords back.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8480588270#13
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03/28/2013 06:44 AMPosted by DeadRu
Why would I want to give this up to use the D2 skill tree? Tell me what the advantages of the D2 skill tree are? Can you give me any suggestions.

Here's a simple suggestion that's been echo'ed on these forums more than 100 times.

03/28/2013 07:14 AMPosted by Saga
Why does everything HAVE to be like D2, I know you are comparing, but for that time the way D2 approached skill trees and skills worked, now that its 2013 you would think that people could think of something better than that right?


Point being is that no one requested an exact copy clone of D2, they wanted D2++++++. An upgraded D2 with better graphics, keeping the same consistent atmosphere, more advanced trees, more dynamic trees.

If you think D3 adopts a "dynamic skill tree" you're poorly mistaken. It adopts a dynamic skill set, but in no way is it a tree of traversal or power of any sort. They are just a generated subset of combinations. A tree has pre-requisites to learning further skills beyond a certain path. Much like in real life you don't learn things at it's most complex stage, you start with the basics and move up to the advanced.

Diablo 3 you just get to 60 and toss things left and right and mash im together and pray they work. Not one moment is ever looked back to the journey to 60 other than it being a chore.

Tell me seriously, are you telling me your builds from 1-59 affected your "swapped skill set "BUILD" " affected you at 60? No, not at all if anything everyone's trying to figure out the fastest skill set per class to get from 1-59 just to fking get thru that tedious chore of tedium. Because your levels 1-59 are like a tutorial there is absolutely 0 progression on your character other than the gear you find which has no bearing on player choice of customization other than the skills you choose.

To not innovate past D2's restrictions over the course of 13 years is just poor.
To cut out the Cauldron of Jordan and the Nephalem Cube which were intriguing features but vaporware since they've never seen the day of light is just even further diminishing game features for a money grab.

Blizz isn't about the game any more, it's about the money.
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ya i miss skill trees but it's gone and is never coming back. the current engine that runs it i doubt will support it.
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So? Doesn't make those choices any less important and entertaining. The only difference is the amount of commitment involved... which is why Nephalem Valor exists.

The real question is: Would they want to use the same build?
Ok, so maybe one guy thinks your build is pretty cool and decides to try it. So what?

"Oh noes! My character isn't unique anymore!" whha? Besides, even if skill trees made your character a unique snowflake, it doesn't change the fact that other people could copy your build idea on their next reroll...

Difference is they copy it on their next re-roll while I continue advancing and they have no clue what they're doing.
Would they want to use the same build? Well if it's defeating everything at 2-5 seconds compared to their 10 minutes a kill then why the fk not? You like slashing the same monster repeatedly for minutes and minuets watching the same animation repeat? (I'm pretty sure that's what MP8 on a CM wizard looks like, and every other one just dies who isn't running that build)

The same can be said about non-skill tree systems. You CAN not have a skill tree and make every choice VIABLE.

^ why was the person arguing about the word Viable? Cuz you said this idiot. You CAN have a skill tree and make every choice viable. Removed the word NOT.
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03/28/2013 10:11 AMPosted by IloveJesus
To make every skill on a skill tree viable, you need to make each ability a percentage instead of a static value, so you can balance and scale perfectly from early game to end game.

That won't happen, or if it does you'll get the same exponential effect of growth like D3's current state in terms of items. It's ilvl 62 63 or the highway.

D2 -> Linear Growth (Allows even low level items to be fairly good to a certain extent)
D3 -> Exponential Growth. (Restricts everything to being super high level items only, all lower ones can be thrown to the trash bin)
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03/27/2013 03:43 AMPosted by Monsta
Do people who ask for stuff like skill trees and offline mode have some sort of mental defect? There is absolutely ZERO chance devs will implement these things so why keep asking for it?


vouch.

they just dun understand the reasoning behind this as well. skills tree was DISCARDED because logic, reasoning and observation proved that it was bad.

edit: btw. look at the turtle above me. one of demz crybabies/returt./fool
Edited by AvantGarde#6595 on 3/28/2013 10:40 AM PDT
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no choice + no investment = no value

That is D3's problem in a nutshell. Everyone here that argues against a system with a more fixed choice system because they prefer the flexibility and convenience of a swappable skill set doesn't recognize their aversion to timely investments in having to create another character to achieve diversity is what ends up giving a sense of unique accomplishment and value in the end.

I never valued my Barb because there are no other Barbs to make.
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03/28/2013 10:39 AMPosted by AvantGarde
Do people who ask for stuff like skill trees and offline mode have some sort of mental defect? There is absolutely ZERO chance devs will implement these things so why keep asking for it?


vouch.

they just dun understand the reasoning behind this as well. skills tree was DISCARDED because logic, reasoning and observation proved that it was bad.

edit: btw. look at the turtle above me. one of demz crybabies/returt./fool

Troll.
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