Diablo® III

Bring back the Skill Tree please


This is how the skills are structured. You do not get all the skills an runes at one the passives I believe are at 10, 20, and 30. Might are at 9, 13 21 26. rage is 19, 23 ,30. the other vary.

So we do not get to chose out of a bag of skills upfront. The runes work pretty much the same way.


That's true, but I think it works better in theory than reality due to leveling from 1-60 being such a speedy process; I'd like to extend the process beyond the level cap so you have room to grow beyond acquiring a slightly bigger stat stick now and then. So long as you don't hurt players who are still leveling up, I don't see how that would be a bad thing.

How would your flexible system work. You would have to have a preset group of skills to begin What would trigger learning a skill and how would it be allocated.


I outlined a system here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8480588270#13

I'm sure there are some kinks to work out, as I thought it out mostly from the Inferno point of view, because that's where everyone ends up and spends the most time. I don't think it would be too hard to integrate it into the leveling process however, and could potentially improve it.

It adds ranks to skills / runes and turns them into tradable objects, with the lower ranks more common drops than higher ranks, so low level characters should wind up getting a large collection of low ranked skills and runes to play around with, just like they get lots of low ranked gems. I didn't think of it at the time but you'd probably want a combine system similar to what the jeweler does with gems.
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03/28/2013 09:44 AMPosted by jling28
As long as skill trees use points to increase damage then the only optimal way to play, besides using one point wonders, is to put as many points into as few skills as possible. It reduces choices.


Yes because being able to use 6 active skills is so much more choice than being able to hotkey up to 8 active skills from F1 to F8. For example with my necromancer I would use a variety of curses depending on the situation like amplify damage, or iron maiden as well as raising an entire army of skeleton warriors, revives and 1 golem. With my sorceress I would teleport around like a boss spam my Frozen Orb or fireball depending on the monsters, but I would also use other skills, telekinesis to loot stuff at a distance, static field to quickly reduce a bosses health down.


6 skills, 3 passives.

Each of those curses were only viable because they were one point wonders. Skeleton warriors and golems were junk in hell. Static field, 1 point wonder. Telekinesis, 1 point wonder. Teleport, one point wonder.

If you needed 20 points in those skills to be useful, then the entire build would not have worked, or been close to as versatile.

And if there are 1 point wonders, then whats the point of being able to put 20 points into them? Oh right it's "customization"
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03/27/2013 04:41 AMPosted by half3vil
At this point, skill trees would just be another unnecessary component adding complexity just for the sake of being complex. There will always be a mathematically superior way to level skills when it is tested thoroughly, and people would copy these builds verbatim. Sure there would be some deviations to these builds, but the absolute best players will still be using the same skill setup, not unlike what we have now.


I heard that one before. Do you really believe that or just acting like you know a thing or two?

The thing is that the most EFFICIENT builds will be copy/pasted which doesnt really have anything to do with making builds YOU have in mind(the way you want to play the character even if it's not the most efficient way), testing stuff or just doing something for lolz.

Viability and efficiency of builds are completely different things which is where your logic betrays you when it comes to this topic.
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The idea of adding character customization is that there are people who enjoy tinkering with a point here and there to find the max dps. Diablo 3 is an average game with no customization. D2 gave people a reason to have more than 1 of each character. And there are also people that did not mind having to remake a character if they mis-clicked a point. It was part of the game in D2 and it was a reason to pay attention and take a vested interest in what you were doing. Diablo 3 is just going through the motions.
The problem could be solved easily, make a 2nd mode with customization that seperates the players like ladder/ non ladder, or AH/ no AH. If the whole problem with customization in this game is that some people dont want to do it, the easy solution is split the players up and let players that want customization have it.
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Too little too late. Would take too long and too many people won't ever come back. Let it R.I.P.
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Thanks for the bump!

Q: After some while, all superior builds will be created, players will just copy from the Internet, if the tree and decisions will finally become redundant, why should there be a tree?

A: What you eat will finally become poops, then why do you eat tasty foods? Because even eating for nutrition can be entertaining, not to mention we are playing a game. To be realistic, Diablo 3 is not a subscription based game that is meant to be expanded and played forever. It will go to an end like every other game, what really matters is whether the players quit with smiles on their faces and whether they will pre-order your next title for the good old experiences and respect, like what we had in other Blizzard games.

If you agree to the concept, feel free to add your own thoughts.


being able to respecc would mean you could eat your !@#$ all over again right ?:D
On a more serious note skill tree is awesome if done right but if you can respecc it with a click of a button it kinda loses its purpose IMO.
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They won't. They want idiots to be able to play around with random abilities until something clicks; Instead of actually thinking and mapping out where you want to go on a skill tree.

Too many scrubs made characters without putting any thought into them and rage when they can't clear nightmare and have to start a new character.

Think of D3 as a Michael Bay movie, cheap thrills.


There is NOTHING in diablo2 that required any grand THOUGHT , to make a great character; everyone knows, there were/are templates FOR just that, online, for your perusal, so let's not try to make it out to seem like there was some magical system that let each character BE anything short of what their character demanded for that class. Everyone who played D2/LOD, used nearly the same templates, because those worked for that character.

That's why in D3, it was changed to do it automatically, because as was clearly spelled out for everyone , including you, is that the reason that superficial nonsense was removed, was because it was , and I quote for you:

" artificial complexity' , and that is precisely what it was.

There is no 'rocket science' moment in being able to do what you did in D2, time to move on and get over it already ;)
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03/28/2013 05:28 PMPosted by cajunctionAI
There is NOTHING in diablo2 that required any grand THOUGHT , to make a great character; everyone knows, there were/are templates FOR just that, online, for your perusal, so let's not try to make it out to seem like there was some magical system that let each character BE anything short of what their character demanded for that class.


(1) There's your first error. Your average casual garbage will never look online for templates or builds. They'll play the game for 30min a day and get frustrated and quit when they can't figure it out on their own after a week (Average console game lifetime). I've seen it all too many times, in many games beyond and including Diablo. Look at how many times this game has been nerfed and there's still people in Normal/Nightmare posting about the game being too hard.

03/28/2013 05:28 PMPosted by cajunctionAI
That's why in D3, it was changed to do it automatically, because as was clearly spelled out for everyone


(2) No. Even Blizzard stated "We want players to be able to test various builds until they feel they've found something they're comfortable with.", they came to realize (1) in Diablo (And WoW, that's a big part of why you're seeing less and less and less talents as we get more and more expansions)

Face it, the game has been simplified and over the years your standards have sunk too low into the dirt.
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That's why in D3, it was changed to do it automatically, because as was clearly spelled out for everyone , including you, is that the reason that superficial nonsense was removed, was because it was , and I quote for you:

" artificial complexity' , and that is precisely what it was.

You may as well take out artificial intelligence as well then, now your game is on par in every aspect. Why not? Everything is automatic right, your game is all superficial in the sense that it's supposed to grant you any fun at all.

Sheesh.
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Skill tree is old school, worked 10-15 years ago. Despite how awful the customization is in D3, the game needs to stay away from skill trees and embrace something more modern and intristic enough to make us think when creating our characters.
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03/28/2013 04:13 AMPosted by KradisZ
You're twisting OP's words or taking them out of context. Your question has been answered with the following mini wall of text not so much in the sense that Blizz auto assigns your active skill runes and passive skills. Bolded to make it obvious.


I have no doubt that the majority of players could easily figure out a good build for any class that they want to play in D2. All it takes is no more than 2 hours tops and you would not only have your build planned out. But you would also have your gear figured out.

So to be honest when running with a plan as most players would do in that game like this one. Then tell me how much brainpower it takes to pump skill points into your spammable skills and their synergies. How much brainpower does it take to pump vitality by 5 points per level after you have all of your other attributes already at the level you want them. Not much brainpower if you ask me. So according to you the trek from 1-99 was a mindless trek. Worse if someone copies and paste the results.

As you adjust further and further, your choices are blatantly obvious as the some skills are completely useless vs. others and are nobrainers, so you end up with just a few set of skills that everyone ends up using.

What consequence is there if you can fix it at any given moment? Oh I died once pfft big whoop 0 penalty, time to switch builds that one sucked and will never be used again. Try again, repeat, oh nothing works? It's your gear then. Nevermind the skills.

If you didn't even have full free respec I guarantee Diablo 3's lifespan would've been MUCH longer for a player staying as opposed to how fast players play it and leave it WITH the assumption of no brickwalling gear check. Quick in Quick out vs. Long in and frustrated out.


One thing you do not know about me I love playing for fun builds. Ones that are not the top of the line cookie cutter farming builds. Simply because I have fun destroying mobs in a game like this one.

I have played the following barb builds and they are loads of fun.
Shaker build
Indiana Jones build
Flaming Magma build
last but not least The Ancient Crawler build.

I know that many other builds exist that would be fun to play not only for the barbarian but also all other classes.

What I am trying to say that is quite simple. Just because you are not stuck with a build. Were a deletion key and maybe up to 100 hours that were wasted just to find out that build x does not work at all. Players look at wasting time is wasting money. An old phrase for many is "Time is money". So our time is precious to us.

But still the consequences of trying to use a build that should really be glaringly obvious that it will not work. Even though you are not stuck with it, you are not forced to reroll in order to fix it.

But still the fact that respecs do not automatically make every possible combination under the sun for all classes viable in inferno. Respecs will not do that. All they do is take out the time wasted finding out build x does not work. You are not penalize heavily because you wanted to try out the build. That is how a game should function.

Because without respecs then a lot of players will just give up and go to a website and copy and paste the best builds and gear setups so they do not have to waste another moment of their time to find a good build.

The majority of players will not be experts at theorycrafting and can breakout an excel spreadsheet and do the math to perfectly math out a build. They will just be copy and paste monkeys. So then tell me how much thought does it take to follow a plan someone else posted. Just about as mindless as you say this game is.

Are you still left clicking and pressing 123456? If your answer is yes, then no each build is not making you play differently because that is the gist of an ARPG with an isometric camera where you kill mobs repeatedly just liek D2, PoE, TL2.
Theres almost only 2 different playstyles, facetank and crazy lifeleech with ultra high DPS, or glass cannon kiting in D3. Not so much anything like CC and wear your enemy down, oh wait CM build! Hit frozen statues... jee... doesn't sound very dynamic at all when your enemy is stunned 100% of the time.


Oh I guess then in D2 you did not have any left mouse clicking at. You even use letters and punctuation keys to fire off skills. I guess you could even punch the computer screen and get the skill to fire, right. You either quicly scrolled through the skills using the wheel, inefficient approach. Or you used the function keys. Hey that is a lot like using 1,2,3,4,5,6. So then all builds in D2 according to your point above played the same.

If you look at the top players on diabloprogress.com. Some of the top ten players do not have any life steal at all. Not even any skill that is a life steal. Go ahead and check it out and prove to me where I am wrong.
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03/28/2013 06:50 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Oh I guess then in D2 you did not have any left mouse clicking at. You even use letters and punctuation keys to fire off skills. I guess you could even punch the computer screen and get the skill to fire, right. You either quicly scrolled through the skills using the wheel, inefficient approach. Or you used the function keys. Hey that is a lot like using 1,2,3,4,5,6. So then all builds in D2 according to your point above played the same.

So you're saying D3 simplified from that then? Because AFAIK D2 had WAY more key mappings then D3 ever will to activate abilities.
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you seem to miss the point that this is a game, and it is fun to try, fail, and finally figure out the correct way to make your character. I had LOADS of fun playing with the tree in D2.

these anti tree arguments are silly.

If I have a rubix cube, there are a thousand wrong moves I can make, and only a few correct moves. The point of a GAME is to figure out the puzzle...
D3 is like handing someone a rubix cube that has already been solved and then saying "here you go have fun playing!"

how is it that some have completely lost sight of basic fundamentals of a GAME ??
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03/28/2013 06:50 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
If you look at the top players on diabloprogress.com. Some of the top ten players do not have any life steal at all. Not even any skill that is a life steal. Go ahead and check it out and prove to me where I am wrong.

top ten you say? god you're so easy to prove wrong
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/nel-1957/hero/7282229
Rank 10 Nebula Queen, Echoing Fury 2.70% damage converted to life, suck it ShadowAegis.
Top ten bud, now stop blowing smoke up my !@#.
#3 Yoo also Barb, with IK Tribal Binding 2.80% life steal or DAMAGE CONVERTED TO LIFE if you want to be extremely technical about it.

Here I made a befitting image just to rub it in your face. :D
http://imgur.com/VZoqhk1

That took literally 31 seconds.

The ones that don't have it, guess what? THEY'RE NOT MELEE.
Which in turn further supports my original statement
Theres almost only 2 different playstyles, facetank and crazy lifeleech with ultra high DPS, or glass cannon kiting in D3.

Man oh man you are hilarious.

Oh I guess even the top ranked players have quit, NebulaQueen last login date Dec. 27 2012.
wow.
#11 nugiyen , oh what a familiar name guess what he quit in Jan sold his stuff, where is he now? Competing in PoE races and probably the top most player having actual competition with guys like Kripparian who play games all day not that I care much ,it's just those are always being featured on there regularly, here you have to go to some offparty 3rd site known as DiabloProgress.com pfft... lol.....
Yeah definitely a sending of all your hardcore players going away out of D3. Signifies what D3 is.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 3/28/2013 7:27 PM PDT
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