Diablo® III

Bring back the Skill Tree please

Skill trees... Would you like to spent all your points in ww build or mash build? So you choose ww build? Tell me is this game now better?

character customization should be done by items. Unfortunately D3 items are poor and because of that there are no customization. This game need more items that supports skills. Like wizard hat that removes cooldown from teleport, And other wizard hat that gives your mirror images 50% of your health and if you die when you have least one image up then you just change place and health with nearest mirror image. (so you won't die)

Now you have to choose which one is better to you.
Edited by ile#2631 on 3/29/2013 4:44 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Too bad so sad guys! I love being able to change up how my character kills the little pixels. Sometimes I play support from behind somethimes I want to get into the fray. I hated the builds in D2 if you wanted to endgame. Hammerdins=boring. With my wiz I can Meteor one day tornado the next. I'm always trying new combos of skills and buff to see what works.

Now everyone pile on! I going to eat, snuggle with wifey, you know, have a real life, instead of stressing ove r a 60 buck game>>>>>>>
Reply Quote
Posts: 14,245
View profile
03/29/2013 01:00 PMPosted by KradisZ
One there are 12 function keys, and 6 in Diablo 3, effectively reduced by half, you're telling me it's more complicated and not simple enough for you realize this? lol... okay there?


No your primary argument was that you are still hitting the same keys. So that means that all builds play the same. Since in D2 you are still hitting the same keys, regardless of how many keys you are hitting. That means all builds play the same, there are no builds in D2 that play differently according to your logic. Just because you are hitting the same keys does not mean that all builds play the same. No they do not, they have different buffs, some no buffs at all. Others attack with fire, lightning, cold, poison, etc... Some shake up the ground, others jump at you from far away. Some throw weapons or arrows, all of those attacks are different and do different things. Even the runes make the attacks work differently.

You can have a WW that does fire damage, heals you, gives you fury, etc... Each ones is different and using it can make a build function differently.

03/29/2013 12:57 PMPosted by KradisZ
I enjoyed the skill trees in D2. Just needs a little better balance on all skills if a tree were to come out, as to making all skills usable for better customization. Synergies definately made that better in D2, but wasn't quite there yet. Anyways, that's my 2 cents and I hope the new director can make a better rework of the game. Would love to try and get myself back into the game which is why i'm always browsing this to see about upcoming changes and peoples ideas/suggestions. Mainly to see if that day will ever happen.

+1


I disagree with the both of you. I say the buy one skill get a synergy for another was bad game design. What it does if force you to spend your points on skills that you might not want to use. I like the synergy that is in this game. D2 synergy was pigeonholing you into using certain skills if you wanted your spammable skill at it's best. That destroyed a lot of viable builds in the process.

You don't have a point if your flimsy argument can go either way. That's called being open-ended in making a point, which in reality has no value. Hero score and all this other blathering is digressing from what I said to begin with, facetank with ultra high dps and lifesteal, guess what? all the melee's do have lifesteal and ultra high dps, or glass cannon kiting, aka the ones who are ranged have no lifesteal, because they are just glass cannon. Saying some of this some of that, dude this isn't a chef's recipe, I made my point looked at diablo progress and fully confirmed such play styles are there and only there at top-end. 2 builds.

You on the other hand is the master of taking things out of context and twisting them into your perspective and leaving them open ended which in turn is like making a million points and if any of them backfire you choose the other million-1 points that will work.


You are missing the point if melee needs a high lifesteal to facetank a place or they are a glass cannon. Then tell me does having life steal make you a facetank and not having it a glass cannon. I will be using a barbarians from diabloprogress.com and maybe someone can settle this properly and say what is and what is not a facetank. And what is and what is not a glass cannon.

I will use six barbarians according to their heroscore. Due to the fact that their heroscore will also put them in the top dps and maybe even ehp categories. And I will list them according to whether they have life steel or not.

First to clarify, facetanking means that you have high life and high ehp. Such a high mitigation usually means you will have an extremely low dps.

Glass cannons usually are on the other end of the spectrum.

First up are the ones that have no life steal
1. http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/dandliont1-1630/Rexxx/28576335
2. http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mirabel-3434/%EA%B4%91%EA%B0%9C%ED%86%A0%EB%8C%80%EC%99%95/21366589
3. http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/%E5%B1%B1%E6%B2%B3%E6%88%91%E6%9C%80%E7%8C%9B-3141/%E5%A5%A7%E4%B8%81/20569543

Now number 3 actually best fits a glass cannon better than the other two. All three have no life steal. Number 3 also has life on hit, but we know that at the higher dps life steal performs way better than loh. So he too should be a glass cannon. But if you were to look at number one and two they have better mitigation in the form of all resist than number 3. So they did not forgo as much resist all as number 3.

Now the ones with life steal.

1. http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/tristan2008-6658/Aiden/30563145
2. http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/%ED%8F%AC%ED%86%A0%ED%8C%8C%EC%9D%B8%EB%8D%94-3297/%ED%8F%AC%ED%86%A0%ED%8C%8C%EC%9D%B8%EB%8D%94/4835578
3. http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/shunt-2357/Shunt/14921918

The only real difference between these three and the other three is life steal. Now how can the first three be glass cannons when each of them has not totally abandon mitigation for dps. Which is what most glass cannons do. Also if life steal is so important for melee then why don't the first three have it?
Reply Quote
Skill Trees are to difficult for Console users and since this was made to be a console game, they didnt include Skill Trees to make sure they didnt ostracize the planned console version users. Dont want to scare away that money from rich PS3/4 users.
Reply Quote
Ile "Skill trees... Would you like to spent all your points in ww build or mash build? So you choose ww build? Tell me is this game now better?"

Skill trees are a system put in place to make skills a decision point, you choose what skills and resources you have access to in completing the game, and these are in turn limited to what you choose. This breaks up content in a similar way to classes (another decision point - you could just as easily have a single uber class after all). The problem isn't that having to choose from among the skills would be boring, Diablo 2 wasn't boring, the problem is that Diablo 3's skills don't justify a decision point at this level, they're unbalanced and mostly uninspiring. If Diablo 3 had Diablo 2's skill system it would have been dead in the water a month after launch. That's simply an issue of offering compelling skills and worthwhile decision points. Don't forget that Diablo 2 didn't just ask you to choose your skills, it let you invest in them to varying degrees (1 point in teleport anyone?).

Ile "character customization should be done by items. Unfortunately D3 items are poor and because of that there are no customization. This game need more items that supports skills. Like wizard hat that removes cooldown from teleport [...] Now you have to choose which one is better to you"

In the Elder Scrolls games you first choose whether you want to be proficient in light or heavy armour, and you then build towards this goal, in most cases you won't get both, in some similar games you can't get both, you get the advantages of one, you are limited by it and you play to it. In other games you choose whether your weapon of choice (the one you get bonuses for using) is a versatile mace, a powerful hammer, a far-reaching sword or a swift dagger. The items don't make this decision for you, and they don't make your character; they are what they are in terms of your character. As long as the gameplay and play styles offered by these restrictions and decision-points are worthwhile, then it's worth carving up the games content and restricting the player in these ways. D3 does it the other way round, the items make the man. While, in some respects, that's a good thing (the items are worth having, they're impactful and change how you play, they're worth pursuing), there's not enough balance, your character doesn't do enough work, there's no decision points at the level of your character. I disagree that items are the only way to go, Blizzard's own trait system - a cancelled feature shown before launch - would have been fantastic.
Reply Quote
I'll make it as simple as possible

Q. What is skill tree?
A. The "skill tree" is eventually a concept of ability accumulating system that can be traversed differently by characters and choices, and is not necessarily a tree.

Q. Why skill tree?
A. It is one of the forms of customization a RPG should provide. Without customization, an ARPG is eventually an Action game and is why some felt Diablo 3 lacked something important comparing to its prequels - because it has near to none RPG elements. (If I wanted to play an action game, DMC and GoW are definitely better, you know what I mean, there are too many better choices.)

Q: Why full respec or skill pool is bad?
A: Full respec means you can always choose the best leveling build, ignoring the risks of making bad decisions that fail your characters midway. Did you ever feel the first 3 difficulties are boring and unnecessary? It is because they only serve the purpose of unlocking skills in the pool. A better model is you make decisions to accumulate your power, then test them in well tuned difficulties to see the pros and cons, and fix your build without falling off the final ideal character. If you make enough bad choices to stuck in Nightmare, then it is your own fault. Otherwise, we don't need so many difficulties, one is enough, we unlock everything without choices anyways.

Q: But isn't it stupid to reroll just for trying a new skill?
A: Reroll is not as bad as you think when you can have fun in the process instead of rushing from 0 to 60 mindlessly.

This is not a troll post. Anunnaki#3684 is my profile.
--

Q: After some while, all superior builds will be created, players will just copy from the Internet, if the tree and decisions will finally become redundant, why should there be a tree?

A: What you eat will finally become poops, then why do you eat tasty foods? Because even eating for nutrition can be entertaining, not to mention we are playing a game. To be realistic, Diablo 3 is not a subscription based game that is meant to be expanded and played forever. It will go to an end like every other game, what really matters is whether the players quit with smiles on their faces and whether they will pre-order your next title for the good old experiences and respect, like what we had in other Blizzard games.


I agree.
Reply Quote
It amazes me how underestimated freedom is to some people.... I honestly think some of you would rather have someone else decide what is best for you than deciding for yourself... Even if you do like the current system were everything is decided for you.... Most of you have already stated that the most optimal builds would be a google search away. Would it be that much different for those of you that believe that the current system is better to just search for builds that others have created and go with it? Or is the fear of commitment that strong within most of you? Has anyone ever thought how many builds have not been able to be created due to the lack of this freedom? Is the freedom to decide and chose not the best foundation for creation? Or is being told what to paint, what songs to write, and what picture you are allowed to draw better?
Reply Quote
Skill trees would make D3 much more interesting.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Hunter
10680
Posts: 373
You want skill trees with no respecs so we are forced to make an entirely new character from one mistake, I want to NOT waste 90% of my D3 experience relevelling classes I already played once.

My taste balances out yours, they went with the other option this time. Deal with it.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,155
03/29/2013 04:56 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
I disagree with the both of you. I say the buy one skill get a synergy for another was bad game design. What it does if force you to spend your points on skills that you might not want to use. I like the synergy that is in this game. D2 synergy was pigeonholing you into using certain skills if you wanted your spammable skill at it's best. That destroyed a lot of viable builds in the process.

it also gave me a sense of character growth, which D3 is void of. I could care less if it pidgeon holed me into a path, if I wanted a complete different set of classnamehere I would re-roll and power up that path instead on that alt, thus the name of Role Playing Game. If I wanted a certain role, I'll make it that way. To be universally great at everything like D3, just means your char is at it's best at any given point and it's up to you whether they're short sighted of it or not. Your character effectively is like all the alts you'd ever make slapped into 1.

What makes making alts so fun for those who don't get it? Well for one, it makes another char you have to gear entirely for that build you're going to make it, replay value, uniqueness among others, and experiencing different power and character growth.

But with D3's systems of stats and damage and itemization being so streamlined and piss poor, and you add FREE respec to it, it sorta kills all that. Well not even sort of, it just KILLS all that.

If you look at Diabloprogress.com even the highest ranked players don't even play, lol if it can't retain a hardcore player what can it retain? A mindless drone(no offense) or what?
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 3/29/2013 11:37 PM PDT
Reply Quote
it also gave me a sense of character growth, which D3 is void of. I could care less if it pidgeon holed me into a path, if I wanted a complete different set of classnamehere I would re-roll and power up that path instead on that alt, thus the name of Role Playing Game. If I wanted a certain role, I'll make it that way. To be universally great at everything like D3, just means your char is at it's best at any given point and it's up to you whether they're short sighted of it or not. Your character effectively is like all the alts you'd ever make slapped into 1.


+1

Very well said.
Reply Quote
I don't care about having a tree-skill in or out of the game, really ... it changes nothing.
This is not the focus of D3s problems.
Reply Quote
+1, too bad they made this game for brain-dead teenagers.
Reply Quote
All i have to say is Path of Exile.
Reply Quote
03/29/2013 05:11 PMPosted by Zalm
Skill Trees are to difficult for Console users and since this was made to be a console game, they didnt include Skill Trees to make sure they didnt ostracize the planned console version users. Dont want to scare away that money from rich PS3/4 users.


where is that tinfoil hat!
Reply Quote
03/30/2013 06:20 AMPosted by AlexT
+1, too bad they made this game for brain-dead teenagers.


He is talking D2 right? I think he is confused
Reply Quote
03/29/2013 07:02 PMPosted by GearJammer
It amazes me how underestimated freedom is to some people.... I honestly think some of you would rather have someone else decide what is best for you than deciding for yourself... Even if you do like the current system were everything is decided for you.... Most of you have already stated that the most optimal builds would be a google search away. Would it be that much different for those of you that believe that the current system is better to just search for builds that others have created and go with it? Or is the fear of commitment that strong within most of you? Has anyone ever thought how many builds have not been able to be created due to the lack of this freedom? Is the freedom to decide and chose not the best foundation for creation? Or is being told what to paint, what songs to write, and what picture you are allowed to draw better?


You have freedom. You can pick the skills you want which rune to use and what passives. You select the gear you want. In D2 your sorc had to put points in str even it they did nothing just to equip gear. Where id the freedom there? Dex to block again the freedom? rest in vit. You could go any other path and simply fail. Skills pick which one you wanted max it max synergies. If you are a war cry you best pick the cries that synergize or fail, more freedom.

I'll tell you what freedon they want. Freedom to dump everything into one stat for dps. They can't stand having to think and actually play the game to get ahead. Quit the game go draw pictures and maybe you will realize this is not a real world it is a game with rules ect.

They can't play like they did in D2 so they use this stat, skill meaningless dodge. Skills suk, why because they may have to kite instead of just destroying a mob. They need to learn to play.

Oh an you have the ultimate freedom you can quit the game anytime.
Edited by DeadRu#1893 on 3/30/2013 8:20 AM PDT
Reply Quote
skill trees = "projects"

diablo 3 = try it, then quit cause it has no depth
Reply Quote
03/30/2013 07:33 AMPosted by Warrok
All i have to say is Path of Exile.


Then why are you even here. Go there hunt for your skills and then dip into the passives. Enjoy. I'll stay here where I enjoy the combat.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]