Diablo® III

The leveling from 1-59 Problem - And Solutions!

Hi all,
"Stay a while, and listen"

I recently made a post about how the drops and general leveling experience from lvls 1-59 needs some attention.
(http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8481408267)

Here I will present some more information on my original post. I will give details on the problem, and suggestions on how to fix them.

Background:
I am lvl 54 on mp10 self-found only, currently in Act 1 Hell. I am doing this for the challenge and am really enjoying the experience!
Surprisingly I haven't yet had to farm any single zone to progress, however now that I am in Hell, it is becoming very slow and tedious, and while I can still get to checkpoints, it looks like I will need to start farming areas to be able to continue. That is expected and I am fine with it, however during my leveling experience from 1-54, I have noticed several problems which I think need to be addressed.

The problems:
1) Not enough loot drops from lvls 1-59 to be able to have a good experience playing D3 without the AH!
2) Salvaging magic and rares does not yield enough magic essences needed for crafting
3) Crafting recipes need to balance material costs better.
4) The conversion rate of crafting materials from one tier to the next is too high! 10 normal = 1 NM essences, 10 NM = 1 Hell essence. etc.
5) Past level 10, you will likely never find an upgrade from vendors, while their prices are too high to make them a good source of salvageable materials.
6) I have found 1 legendary from lvl 1-54 (about 26 hours of game play), back in Act 3 normal. That makes me a sad panda.
7) Crafting should be encouraged! Not something that people choose to do as an optional way to make the game more challenging!

What isn't a problem:
1) Gold drops -
On mp10, not counting the gold I've spent on the ~50 things total I've crafted so far, I have 372,000 gold playing from Act 1 normal to Act 1 Hell. Since mp10 adds 100% gf, I would have collected 186,000 had I done the same run on mp0. That sounds about right to me.
2) Rare crafting materials -
I found that by the time I ended normal and nightmare, I had a surplus of 100 of each of the rare crafting materials. This was not due to me getting an insane number of rare drops, rather that the recipe requirements for rare crafting materials is strongly in favor of magic mats, not rare: For example, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/journeyman-arming-cap requires 11 subtle essences and 2 fallen tooths, but will salvage into only 1 essence and 1 tooth, so you can immediately see the imbalance there - see my crafting should be encouraged point #7 above.

Potential Solutions:
1) Allow NV stacks from 1-59. This would add 25% increased mf/gf/xp per stack, and give you additional drops on bosses @ 5 stacks.
2) Add in the item bonus % from mp level to normal-inferno. (currently 100% additional item bonus at mp10 inferno, 0% on mp10 normal-hell)
3) Apply the mf bonus from inferno to normal-hell as well: mp10 normal-hell = 100% mf bonus, while mp10 inferno = 250%. Why the difference?
4) Improve the monster density across all acts (I did notice that in Act 3 NM the amount of drops I was getting drastically increased, which I am assuming is linked to the monster density issue)
4) Reduce the magic crafting material costs from 5-10 essences down to 2-3, but increase the fee (gold) per craft to be more balanced.
5) Allow for whites to be salvaged into partial essences, so that 4 white items salvaged can be combined by the BS to make 1 essence. 8 greys can be salvaged into 1 magic essence.
6) Halve the conversion cost from Normal-NM-Hell-Inferno crafting, so that instead of 10-1, you can convert 5 essences from an inferior tier into 1 essence of the superior tier.
7) Increase the number of craftable items between levels (currently there are major gaps in level with what you can craft, making progression non-linear. For instance, just after getting an upgrade with a few pieces, I am suuuper strong for 2-3 levels and then back to weak again for 8 levels)
8) Reduce the randomness in crafting (ie like BoA items for lvls 1-59), they don't necessarily need to be BoA.
9) Improve quality of vendor items and/or reduce cost of vendor items.
10) Increase the number of essences you get from salvaging a magic and rare item from 1-2 up to 4-7.

I think that with these solutions Blizzard can make the leveling experience from 1-60 a more enjoyable one, and this would also encourage people to play through the game in a more challenging environment, without having to depend on the AH alone to progress.

Thanks for the read!
Edited by Fizzmopper#1811 on 3/28/2013 12:52 PM PDT
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Um... Genius. O_O
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thanks for the feedback guys!
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I thought part of this over a while ago. Have you ever actually played through norm/nightmare with a lvl 60 with tons of MF? Its ridiculous how many nice low level items you find to sell on the AH or gear your alt's out from a low level.

Instead I think they could just ease the "problem. WHat i mean is like having the first NV stack at level 12, 2nd at 24, 3rd at 36, 4th at 48 and 5th at 60. Or something along those lines. Glad someone got around to actually posting a coherent argument for it. Thanks!
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I was thinking that could be a potential solution, but only adding 25% mf per 12 levels or so still wouldnt be enough. I think that + a combination of some of the other things I mentioned could work though.
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any blues comment on if there will be any 1-59 improvements in future patches? thanks.
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03/30/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Calamity
I don't see the purpose of focusing attention on a 3 hour segment of the game when the remaining 500+ hours is what needs attention.


I disagree, most people don't rush through to 60.

I agree with most of the ops points, i would really like to see improvements to the 1-59 game and blizzard shouldn't neglect it!
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03/30/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Calamity
I don't see the purpose of focusing attention on a 3 hour segment of the game when the remaining 500+ hours is what needs attention.

This. The most important "1-59 improvement" needed is to give us an actual reason to do it more than once per class.
Edited by Dogf#1248 on 3/30/2013 6:54 PM PDT
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03/30/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Calamity
I don't see the purpose of focusing attention on a 3 hour segment of the game when the remaining 500+ hours is what needs attention.


Do you play Hardcore at all? When your character dies, guess what? You gotta level up from level 1 all over again. While you'll never do that again in softcore, so it's less of a problem, it's an issue with HC.

I'm currently slowly doing the MP10 HC self found game myself. And I've noticed exactly what the OP is talking about.

The game wasn't balanced around this at all. On MP10 you are always much higher level then the area you are in and the drops you get, meaning you almost never find anything good.
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MP10 is not feasible for self found character on Hardcore from Hell Act 2 onward, unless you have another character that is already in inferno and could supply yourself with gear and gems. You will find playing at MP1 is faster to get to level 60!

Characters not to play on MP10 from Hell mode are wizard and witch doctor, unless you have really really good self found good gear and gems. I found playing wizard and witch doctor a pain at MP10 in hell level, it takes too long to kill elite and champ and some tough mobs.

If you reach Hell level at 5x, you should be fine to do reach level 60 in ACT 3 just before siegebreaker even if you switch to play at MP1 in Hell mode.

One should complete MP10 Nightmare at 51 or 52(if you are not wearing exp gem on helm) and then head to Hell level as there is diminishing return to level in Nightmare.

MP10 is not for everyone, unless you already have all the proper gear and gems for it.
I am not saying those building their first character with self found in HC should not play MP10 but it just take way too much time if you don't have the proper gear and gems.
Edited by DHL#1955 on 3/30/2013 7:56 PM PDT
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I do realize that the majority of time players spend is in inferno, so that is why Blizzard's attention is there, but it seems like many of the inferno changes they have made, they've done so without even considering the 1-59 game, and it has really hurt the enjoyment of leveling.

Most of the suggestions I made above should be really easy to implement, and will not have any negative impact on the AH, RMAH, or inferno game (that I can think of).
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lol I just leveled 2 more character. Little mf and the game is fine. I enjoy playing, I enjoy leveling. It goes so quick now that I do not see drops as the issue. We burn through items so fast in leveling that they cease to matter. When I'm leveling all I care about is leveling. better a Blue with high str, pickup radius and % to xp than a rare with yet unneeded stats. Go to the ah you see blues for a lot of gold, they were purchased in the game not found. I do not get excited if a rare or leg drops when I'm leveling. I outstrip most of them in little time. It is not until hell that they start to matter an at that point better drops have become available. This was addressed a long time ago.
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This is a good thread.
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03/31/2013 08:17 AMPosted by DeadRu
lol I just leveled 2 more character. Little mf and the game is fine. I enjoy playing, I enjoy leveling. It goes so quick now that I do not see drops as the issue. We burn through items so fast in leveling that they cease to matter. When I'm leveling all I care about is leveling. better a Blue with high str, pickup radius and % to xp than a rare with yet unneeded stats. Go to the ah you see blues for a lot of gold, they were purchased in the game not found. I do not get excited if a rare or leg drops when I'm leveling. I outstrip most of them in little time. It is not until hell that they start to matter an at that point better drops have become available. This was addressed a long time ago.


I donno what is with you and your posts DeadRu, but you hardly ever post anything that makes sense.

Clearly you have not played Self found (no AH) or HC or MP10 leveling. Get out of here thanks.
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add more content to those lvls. Side events, stuff you only find once, etc.

Not like the now side events, they are so very predictable and not special :/.
Edited by WitchDoctor#1834 on 3/31/2013 10:13 AM PDT
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While I agree (with Calamity) that in softcore you'd lvl up only once per char - and even in hardcore, with due precautions - I also agree with Fizzmopper that lvls 1-59 need some attention.

i.e: items. In the end, all good items are 60+, period. There is no one single item you'd like to use in your plvl 100 char that's below lvl 60.

About drops...well, idk you, but every time I help a low lvl friend, I first ask them to create a MP10 game themselves, so I could join w/ a s***load of MF and see legendaries dropping all around. THEN I would create an act3 MP10 game. (First-time quests = more loot? Idk where I read this, but it seems to work)
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Nephalem Valor does not add 25% per stack... it adds 15% per stack (5 stacks total, for 75%.)
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03/28/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Fizzmopper
1) Not enough loot drops from lvls 1-59 to be able to have a good experience playing D3 without the AH!


I have never used the auction house to gear up any character with the name of dread from level 1-59. I use that name to mark them so that I know that I will not be using the AH to gear them up pre level 60. If anyone needs to use it to get gear pre 60. Then they are missing out on a lot of upgrades. Or they are just the type that has to all of their gear current with the level of their character. If you do that then chances are you do not have any gold and are broke.

03/28/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Fizzmopper
5) Past level 10, you will likely never find an upgrade from vendors, while their prices are too high to make them a good source of salvageable materials.


I would say that from time to time I have found some good upgrades from vendors. Primarily rings and amulets. Sure I will also get a few weapons and other things as well.

The real cut off point is in hell. That is when I stop going to them entirely other than for repairs and selling gear or items.
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