Diablo® III

What made the community so Sour?

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because the community waited over 10 years for the next best action-rpg ever, what we got was a good but not great game with dumbed down mechanics and a horrible story.

it's just too mediocre to not be angry or disappointed about it (at least when you played d2 for some time)
IDGAF, just a game ffs.
1: People don't like change. Don't like getting a game different from what they envisioned.
2: The dumbest people are the loudest. Big community = big amount of dumb/loud people, feeding off of each other for support when they see that they aren't the only ones complaining about stupid crap.
3: There are actually plenty of things that need work, and there used to be a lot of things that were outright wrong with the game. Luckily that's mostly behind us now. Not that these guys would notice it.


Could you site some reputable sources to verify statements 1 and 2 please?

I like to think most people like change, who wants to do the same exact things every day?

And as for the dumbest being the loudest, that's a tough one.... if no one ever stood up when they felt they were being wronged.... wow i don't even like to imagine that world.

Seems to me like your confusing facts with opinions.
it seems to me that since 2008, crying in game forums has become more common. to me that suggests that as the average birth year of gamer population increases, more and more people cry. that is to say 'the cry baby coeffecient' of people born in around 1990-1994 has increased dramatically, compared to that of the 4 year period before. you see what i did there?
I would really like to know the answer to this question as well. Since playing D3, I am soooo mad all the time. I usually spend my time walking around raging and muttering curses at people. TBH, I feel that I am very sour.
03/31/2013 04:57 AMPosted by INJEKT
it seems to me that since 2008, crying in game forums has become more common. to me that suggests that as the average birth year of gamer population increases, more and more people cry. that is to say 'the cry baby coeffecient' of people born in around 1990-1994 has increased dramatically, compared to that of the 4 year period before. you see what i did there?


Seems to me that during the crybaby birth years, games also started becoming more rewarding and fun to play also, with the creation of better story lines, better graphics, cinematic cut-scenes, and so on.

Game creators started realizing that people like being rewarded with awesome stories, sweet toys, and gear, and outfits, etc.

So people then start getting used to this idea... and when a game takes a step backwards instead of forward... well you can see where there might be some upset feelings.

The progression of games going from something like pac-man to something like... oh I don't know.... final fantasy, you can see where people might lean toward the latter for satisfaction.

And yes i know that example wasn't exactly prime, but I think you get the point.
Edited by Drakhen#1582 on 3/31/2013 5:10 AM PDT
complaining is a privilege given to every gamer, and unfortunately it is typical in most game forums not just D3 no matter how good any other game is it's pretty much the same elsewhere , animosity festers in our generation pool especially since many takes delight in trolling or just simply being critical or antagonizing authority / game makers privately protected behind a keyboard to bend demands to their will's. unfortunately not all people can be pleased a circle of players could want a feature that will conflict with another bunch that want it removed it's a never ending circle. The spites and hostility has driven most of the decent sensible players away from social forums. The current mannerism and lack of appreciation does concern me but it wasn't all bad alot of good changes have come out of it resulting in most of the updates since. While being open to opinions sometimes people may need to be reminded it is a game not a life mortgage.
Hmm I like the good game, good forum theory. My thought process on the topic could more or less be boiled down to that plus a few other things...

At release a huge, very huge, percentage of players hit the Inferno difficulty walls. This difficulty wall is incredibly likely due to the cowboy style, "double it" Inferno difficulty patch that went flying out the door untested by mere mortals at launch. I think the Inferno wall soured a lot of people who were quite happy to play through the game 4 times in a row and call it a day. Could be put in the good game, good community pot.

At release there were also a decent amount of connection stability issues for players which can do tremendous damage to your reputation. Just ask Maxis, Ea and SimCity. Again, could be assigned to the gg, gc pot.

At some point the community reps and devs started posting on the forums and in other public places using a very aggressive or familiar tone in the style that friends who like to give each other a little guff might use. I think this was a huge mistake. Angry customers suddenly were being addressed in this confrontational manner that wasn't going to engender any kind of good will or calm their ire. Fan boys jumped on the bandwagon egging the CMs and devs on to further heights and adopting similar attitudes in their posts. The CMs and devs new aggressive style not only said, "it is now okay to talk in the provocative tone" but it also therefore escalated any "trolls" or simply upset customers to new heights (lows?) in the sense that the professional representatives of the company had lowered the collective bar.

This whole phenomenon wasn't limited to D3 necessarily. We'd seen it brewing for a while now via posts and articles like the one by "Ghostcrawler" on the topic of World of Warcraft 5-Man dungeons. I'm sure someone thought it was a great idea to put programmers and developers in (pseudo) direct communication with the community but I think it is a bit unfair to expect someone to be both a programmer and PR Rep, they are traditionally seen as rather opposite end of the spectrum style people. Hence what we started seeing in poorly chosen word choice (to put it politely) articles and posts or even the outright hostile David Brevik twitter post from Jay Wilson. This is definitely not a gg = gc addressable thing.

They've eased off on this overly familiar attitude and tone since, but not entirely, limiting it more to posts about what kind of runs they like and other more soft or silly topics. We did get a post from the new Treasure Goblin dev that tread dangerously close with a, I'm sure meant to be throw away, line, "As designers part of our job is to understand and be aware of the ripples caused by changes we make." A sentence that would normally not ruffle many feathers but in this sore community is probably not as well worded as it could be. Luckily Travis Day is currently riding a wave of "new messiah" style forum love that probably helped insulate him from any possible backlash.

Back to the original topic flow, after trying to battle back against an increasingly hostile community with a little "give it back to 'em" attitude they kind of faded out considerably. There were many a, "where did the devs go!?" post for a while. This is a thing that just happens periodically anyway though. If you look at the pre-1.05 mid October era there were hardly any posts versus, say, the late August post 1.04 patch era. The phenomenon of the ebb and flow of conversation might not be so obvious if the game didn't require a mounting number of intense and various patches since launch. A thing that can be attributed in part to the gg=gc formula perhaps.

The frequent patching also causes it's fair share of upheaval in that not all changes are beloved the world 'round. Even the most seemingly benign change can have the most venomous detractors screaming loudly here on the forums. Complete overhauls of systems, like introducing Monster Power, even when paired with features meant to retain previous functionality will inevitably have it's fair (and unfair) share of haters.

Summary, game wasn't super ready for launch in every aspect and then some poor choices in community PR here and there exacerbated this fact. If the game was released in its current state at launch it would have been an even MORE phenomenal success. Instead it has gained this weird stigma of being a poorly launched and greedily handled game while also being super successful. There are worse places to be as a franchise or company I suppose but it seems to me their reputation, both Blizzard and the Diablo franchise, were better off before even if it was a bit nostalgia driven or what have you.
I'm not sour, I ripened this morning.
Analogy is wrong.

Bad games = Dead forums.
ANSWER:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Rv_7kWfBc
The game is an admitted piece of !@#$, the forums reflect this, the lack of high profile streamers reflects this, and the ghost town in game and on your friends list reflects this. Even a game comprised mostly of trolls (League of Legends) has a "real" forums because the game is marketed for teenagers not middleschoolers, yes diablo 3 is the easiest most casual simplistic game blizzard has ever made. inb4 blizz card game, fail softcore %^-* company.
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03/30/2013 09:45 PMPosted by Wolverine
Look speak for yourself when you say

...
I know that only a small handful of players here would want that. The majority of us wanted an improvement over D2.


Still would've been better than this game.


03/30/2013 09:52 PMPosted by Krine
D3 is a good game, the problem is the past predecessors set the bar so high. Rarely ever is a sequel as good as the original. D2 was a rarity in that. The success of D1 and D2 unreasonable expectations doomed this community regardless of how good it would be. At least D3 wasn't as bad as the sequels to the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies......


The framework for D3 was already established. ALL they had to do was build on Diablo 2 instead of starting from scratch and make it their own way. And they had 7 years and the biggest budget in the world to do it.

03/30/2013 09:39 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Look speak for yourself when you say that all of us wanted a perfect HD clone of D2:LOD. I know that only a small handful of players here would want that. The majority of us wanted an improvement over D2. Not a Call of Duty reskinned copy. This game is Diablo not Call of Duty. From what I have heard that Call of Duty is finally feeling the pain of not releasing enough new features. I guess that even their fan base can get tired of the same ol same ol kind of a game.


You call Diablo 3 an improvement over Diablo 2? While we didn't originally prefer a Diablo 2 in HD, most of us would prefer that over this Diablo 3.


When the poster said that all of us, including me and the two of you were wanting Diablo 2 in HD. I said go speak for yourself because you are in a minority.

Also I did not say whether majority would've preferred Diablo 2 in HD over this one if they had their choice or not. I was merely trying to let him know that he is in the minority as far as wanting this game to be Diablo 2 in HD.
When I completed Hell fot the first time I thought inferno would be full of great items that I could easily sell without exloiting the game or botting. How big was my dissapointment when most of my drops were as crappy as in hell. The only thing I regret is that I didn't play public games from the beginning, but who would expect that this game would be packed with so many bugs or could be exploited so easy. Then came all the stupid skill and quests nerfes which only made the game worse. Some people also didn't like inferno nerfes too. Been playing D2 LOD for years both on BN and Single Player and I don't remember seeing so many nerfes as in D3 in the first year.
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At release a huge, very huge, percentage of players hit the Inferno difficulty walls. This difficulty wall is incredibly likely due to the cowboy style, "double it" Inferno difficulty patch that went flying out the door untested by mere mortals at launch. I think the Inferno wall soured a lot of people who were quite happy to play through the game 4 times in a row and call it a day. Could be put in the good game, good community pot.


I highly doubt when they said we doubled it for inferno that Jay was just talking about acts 2-4. I think he was referring to all of inferno. So if Jay and company did not double it. Then inferno acts 2-4 would've still been a steep jump in difficulty compared to act one inferno.

At some point the community reps and devs started posting on the forums and in other public places using a very aggressive or familiar tone in the style that friends who like to give each other a little guff might use. I think this was a huge mistake. Angry customers suddenly were being addressed in this confrontational manner that wasn't going to engender any kind of good will or calm their ire. Fan boys jumped on the bandwagon egging the CMs and devs on to further heights and adopting similar attitudes in their posts. The CMs and devs new aggressive style not only said, "it is now okay to talk in the provocative tone" but it also therefore escalated any "trolls" or simply upset customers to new heights (lows?) in the sense that the professional representatives of the company had lowered the collective bar.


First of all I did not see this so called aggressive tone you are talking about. They tried to keep things civil here on the forums. Angry customers were trying to push their buttons. Also what did those customers expect Blizz to do. Say okay our vision sucks, we throw it out. Our vision from now on will be solely based on the forums. So if anyone asks us what is the vision for D3 and what does the future hold. Blizz would tell them go read the forums. The meetings for the devs would be at the forums.

But doing that would mean that the game would go in 10k different directions. We have a hell of a time agreeing on any subject. Also doing that would mean that the time it took them to add in what we have now would be even longer. What do you add in first if you were basing your vision solely on what was said on the forums.

They've eased off on this overly familiar attitude and tone since, but not entirely, limiting it more to posts about what kind of runs they like and other more soft or silly topics. We did get a post from the new Treasure Goblin dev that tread dangerously close with a, I'm sure meant to be throw away, line, "As designers part of our job is to understand and be aware of the ripples caused by changes we make." A sentence that would normally not ruffle many feathers but in this sore community is probably not as well worded as it could be. Luckily Travis Day is currently riding a wave of "new messiah" style forum love that probably helped insulate him from any possible backlash.


Yeah but the problem here is that the forum expects to see a sea of blue posts every single day. And not from CM's but the devs only. Where instead of having meetings discussing the up coming changes and how they can improve the game from where it is at now. Along with working on the current patch. They would have to park their butts here and post like there was no tomorrow in order to make that crowd happy. Where their development time would be very low.

I like the current setup where the devs can work on the game and the CM's can tell us what they have to say. I know that means there will be some information that we will not have. But I am cool with that. Because if we knew everything they are thinking about. Then if system x or y was not seen in the game that would be another failed promise according to the community.
people like calamity
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