Diablo® III

The Problem with Large Companies not being Challenge

90 Pandaren Priest
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Posts: 786
Blizzard is really the prime example. Even if they make 3rd rate products that pale in comparison to their older titles, people will still jump on their games. Why?

They're living off an old legacy that is unfortunately gone and some of the developers on most of their core franchises (all of Blizzard North) are gone. This is not the same Blizzard of the olden days that actually believes in Quality over everything. It was claimed that the Real Money Auction House wasn't implemented to make money, but to stop other sites from selling Diablo. Sounds like Blizzard just wanted some of their profit, unfortunately, it didn't pan out.

I thought always online was going to prevent piracy, hackers, botters? Guess not, while playing Diablo 3 I'm constantly barraged with spams from gold farmers, and I often have friend requests from these people. So instead of having a beautiful GUI Chat interface when I log onto Diablo or Starcraft, I'm simply greeted by a tiny chat box in the bottom right hand corner of my screen. No displaying of characters, no legit ladder system, and no one to make Battle.net feel alive.

Things that have failed:
1. Battle.net 2.0
2. Always On Diablo
3. The Real Money Auction House
4. The gameplay of the game
5. Proper Chat Screen


Long gone is the day where Blizzard had the proper talent to peer into the future and figure out what was next. The talent either no longer exists, or is more concerned about profits (or saving money). Being in chemical research company of moderate size, I understand that point of any business is profit, shareholders, and than research, however when you actually do the research it shouldn't be halfassed. Oddly enough, the work that was put into Battle.net 2.0, Diablo, and even the Starcraft 2 interface is half assed.

I understand that Blizzard used to be a great company, but I want you to think back to the olden days. Maybe install Diablo 2 on your Easter Day. Is Blizzard a company that feels like it NEEDS to great video games or does it simply just exist to hand you additional 3rd rate products to buy because they know they're not going anywhere? The purchasing by Activision increases their dominance and mediocrity. I suppose thats the video game world we live in today.
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It's almost like they took what was great about Diablo 2 and deliberately removed it.
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Things that have failed:
1. Battle.net 2.0
2. Always On Diablo
3. The Real Money Auction House
4. The gameplay of the game
5. Proper Chat Screen


Everything right except

4. The gameplay of the game

D3 has a a good gameplay, sure not as good or fast as D2 with or without LOD, but not a complete fail either.
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They're living off an old legacy that is unfortunately gone and some of the developers on most of their core franchises (all of Blizzard North) are gone. This is not the same Blizzard of the olden days that actually believes in Quality over everything. It was claimed that the Real Money Auction House wasn't implemented to make money, but to stop other sites from selling Diablo. Sounds like Blizzard just wanted some of their profit, unfortunately, it didn't pan out.

I thought always online was going to prevent piracy, hackers, botters? Guess not, while playing Diablo 3 I'm constantly barraged with spams from gold farmers, and I often have friend requests from these people. So instead of having a beautiful GUI Chat interface when I log onto Diablo or Starcraft, I'm simply greeted by a tiny chat box in the bottom right hand corner of my screen. No displaying of characters, no legit ladder system, and no one to make Battle.net feel alive.


First of all I never buy a game based entirely on the success of a companies previous titles. I do not buy a game based on the success or reputation of the company. Instead the game itself sells itself to me. That is why I bought all of the games that I have bought over the years. Either it is the box of the game, a game that I did not know existed. Or what I have seen about the game, if I know if it's existence.

As far as piracy goes, go and find me a pirated copy of D3 and emulation servers that work to perfection. You would not find such like ones. Having the majority of the game code server side is what prevents this from happening.

Now that is what I think that being online has done for them. As far as botting it no doubt is not nearly as bad as in D2. Because now bot writers have to know what they are doing. An armchair bot writer cannot write a bot program these days.

I would dare say that the RMAH has not made them a ton of money compared to their cash cow WoW.

Things that have failed:
1. Battle.net 2.0
2. Always On Diablo
3. The Real Money Auction House
4. The gameplay of the game
5. Proper Chat Screen


I would not say that they are a total failure. It is just that they are not as successful as they need to be.

Long gone is the day where Blizzard had the proper talent to peer into the future and figure out what was next. The talent either no longer exists, or is more concerned about profits (or saving money). Being in chemical research company of moderate size, I understand that point of any business is profit, shareholders, and than research, however when you actually do the research it shouldn't be halfassed. Oddly enough, the work that was put into Battle.net 2.0, Diablo, and even the Starcraft 2 interface is half assed.

I understand that Blizzard used to be a great company, but I want you to think back to the olden days. Maybe install Diablo 2 on your Easter Day. Is Blizzard a company that feels like it NEEDS to great video games or does it simply just exist to hand you additional 3rd rate products to buy because they know they're not going anywhere? The purchasing by Activision increases their dominance and mediocrity. I suppose thats the video game world we live in today.


The problem with the above is this. While trying to save money and making a game that sucks. You kill your profits in the long run. So it is wise to figure out where you want your game to be and make damn sure that it will get there. Also you have to make sure that your game is fun for the majority of the players. If not then no one would buy the game. That means wasted money for the company.

I say that the talents of this current dev team is different than the ones at Blizz North. You cannot expect to have a new bunch of devs automatically make a game, especially a sequel a super duper awesome success right out of the gate. I do believe though after more patches and an expansion we will be seeing this game become as great if not better than D2.
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The true problem of the game is the itemization. Finding items lower than 700 DPS in inferno no matter what monster level is a misunderstanding. Same goes with legendaries. They slightly improve some of i61-i63 lvl, but most of them are still useless. If ALL legendary weapons had a base damage of 900 - 1500 for 1H and 1000 to 1600 for 2h things would be different. Just make weapons much more powerfull so people can farm MP 5 just like they farm MP 0-2 now. Same goes with crafting. This would make the game much more fun as every single craft you make would be worth at least something for your toon.

Same situtation with armor. Increase the max amount of:
- CC from 6 to 10%
- CD from 50% to 75%
- IAS from 9 to at least 12%
- Base stat from 350 to 550
- Damage against Elites 30 - 50%

Also:

- Give +%EXP to other Legendaries than just Leorics Signet

but make those items super rare. This way old Top Gear items drop in price and farming MP 5 will be as fast as MP 0.

Quoting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

"There's no such thing as too much power"
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Diablo 2 Classic is more or less boring. Diablo 2 with LoD Exp is where it was at.

Right now, Diablo 3 is a very fun game, even if it's not quite there yet. It could be more fun in the endgame-department, especially regarding itemization, and there's some head scratchers like the PvP-debacle, the ID-All button, who took a year, when Diablo2 had it from day 1 and the whole id-process in D3 was and still is annoying to anyone.

But thinking about what two D3-expansions could possibly bring to this already good game: two more acts, more character class, new item classes and new game mechanics... I'm pretty confident, it's going to be as fun or even better than D2+LoD.

In D3 all the acts are fun to play through, there's only a handful of areas that I personally don't enjoy as much. Thinking back to Diablo... I really only liked very specific areas of the game and just wanted to skip most of it.

if the quality of the acts stays the same or even increases, there'll be enough to do for me in Diablo 3 for a long time.
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The true problem of the game is the itemization. Finding items lower than 700 DPS in inferno no matter what monster level is a misunderstanding. Same goes with legendaries. They slightly improve some of i61-i63 lvl, but most of them are still useless. If ALL legendary weapons had a base damage of 900 - 1500 for 1H and 1000 to 1600 for 2h things would be different. Just make weapons much more powerfull so people can farm MP 5 just like they farm MP 0-2 now. Same goes with crafting. This would make the game much more fun as every single craft you make would be worth at least something for your toon.

Same situtation with armor. Increase the max amount of:
- CC from 6 to 10%
- CD from 50% to 75%
- IAS from 9 to at least 12%
- Base stat from 350 to 550
- Damage against Elites 30 - 50%

Also:

- Give +%EXP to other Legendaries than just Leorics Signet

but make those items super rare. This way old Top Gear items drop in price and farming MP 5 will be as fast as MP 0.

Quoting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

"There's no such thing as too much power"


My main critic of this is that CC and CD design is pretty... ridiculous. It scales so much better than any other stats available making other stats absolutely worthless.

Yes, the main issue is itemization, and your statement fully describes the grim situation it is in. The damage range of items is just too wide that its stupid. Gains should be marginal. The existence of Monster Power was to in a way put a band-aid on their terrible design choice; because content was too easy and players are just face rolling everything.

Yes, we want to feel powerful, face rolling everything. But there should be bosses that no matter what should not be face rolled: No I'm not asking for bosses with insane damage one-hit KO and with insane amount of health that will take forever to chip off, but well designed mechanics and a certain level of skill to take down: even with the best gears in game on

Back to itemization, everything is designed revolving DPS. That's where its really lacklustre. Look at Diablo 2 for example : hit recovery, block chance ( and block amount that is substantial enough that is actually useful), other character's skills, different procs) etc. It's not all about sheet dps.

On a side note about player expectations.

". Finding items lower than 700 DPS in inferno no matter what monster level is a misunderstanding. Same goes with legendaries. They slightly improve some of i61-i63 lvl, but most of them are still useless. If ALL legendary weapons had a base damage of 900 - 1500 for 1H and 1000 to 1600 for 2h things would be different."

This is exactly why AH has damaged the game play of Diablo 3. Yes, I'm guilty, I use it too. But I rather that it doesn't exist. Actual progress aren't exactly felt, as you constantly compare your gears with what you can get on the AH. Expectation about finding the next big ticket item and, nope not to use it, but sell it for gold. For upgrades. Yes trading makes the game fun, but it spoils the item progression feel of the game, especially when the itemization is poorly designed. I think I've written enough. Other players have written much more elaborate posts about these issues and you can easily find them around here.
Edited by immy#6924 on 3/31/2013 10:38 AM PDT
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I'm sorry but after so many years of making the game D3 should have EVERYTHING D2 + LOD had and the expansion should have new classes, new act (yes only one I doubt there's a need for 2 more) new class items, maybe increased lvl from 60 to 80 or 100. D3 Expansion shouldn't give us what we had in D2 LOD as it should already be in Diablo 3. It should introduce something completely new, more than just goblins or events in D3.
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Yes, we want to feel powerful, face rolling everything. But there should be bosses that no matter what should not be face rolled: No I'm not asking for bosses with insane damage one-hit KO and with insane amount of health that will take forever to chip off, but well designed mechanics and a certain level of skill to take down: even with the best gears in game on

Back to itemization, everything is designed revolving DPS. That's where its really lacklustre. Look at Diablo 2 for example : hit recovery, block chance ( and block amount that is substantial enough that is actually useful), other character's skills, different procs) etc. It's not all about sheet dps.


You're right, but unfortunately the only thing we can rely on is CC, AS, CD and base stat+AR and vit, but nerfing those will only make everything worse instead there should be more properties like you mentioned (hit recovery, block amount and more) so people wouldn't depend only on as, crit builds. I also agree with you on boss fights in a way.
Edited by xKosciejx#2985 on 3/31/2013 10:49 AM PDT
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Because D3 was aimed to deny D2, as you can see from ''F that loser'' case.
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Diablo 3 has a lot of new things. There's more item slots, WAY more active skills instead of just Icebolt being invalidated by Iceblast being invalidated by Glacial Spike being invalidated by Frozen Orb. Seriously, how many different skills would you actually use with any given character?

My sorcs had teleport, static, energy shield (what sorc didn't) and two or more main damage skills from different Skill Trees.

While not all skills in Diablo 3 are equal, they are at least not obsoleted by other skills. Tempest Rush from the monk might not be the most powerful skill right now but there's no other skill like it or invalidates it.

Gold actually matters in Diablo3, whereas in D2 you used it to gamble or revive your retarded AI followers. Speaking of which, there isn't a clear choice anymore like in D2 where all you'd ever need was an ActII merc for either Frost Aura for casters or Might Aura for physical Damage chars.

Diablo 3 has invented and improved on the formula A LOT but people refuse to see it. Go back and play some Diablo2 from the beginning. See how much fun it actually is to play the game if nobody is shuttling your butt through the acts so you can go farm Baal in Hell with a new char in under an hour or something.

You'll be running out of mana all the time, your stamina and manapool is going to get on your nerves big time because you just have to stand there like an idiot waiting for it recharge, when you run out of mana-pots wich will happen often, you'll be chucking potions nonstop. You will generally be annoyed that you can't use your skillpoints because you want to save them for your level 30 skills (well, they put in a respec system and synergies like 3 years after LoD came out...) you have to keep collecting Arrows or Bolts if you're a ranged character.

Don't get me wrong, Diablo2 was an awesome game, but people look at it like it was the perfect game, which is far from the truth.
Edited by Paulszki#1462 on 3/31/2013 11:07 AM PDT
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03/31/2013 11:03 AMPosted by Paulszki
Gold actually matters in Diablo3, whereas in D2 you used it to gamble or revive your retarded AI followers. Speaking of which, there isn't a clear choice anymore like in D2 where all you'd ever need was an ActII merc for either Frost Aura for casters or Might Aura for physical Damage chars.


Sry, but followers in d2 were actually better than in D3, cause you get gear them with chest armor, gloves, helmet and boots if I remember correctly and the most effective mercenary in my opinion was the "templar" from act 2. Btw mercenaries (followers) were availabe in "public games" aka multiplayer games when you joined someones game. They also had auras and a much highier damage output than current one.

03/31/2013 11:03 AMPosted by Paulszki
You'll be running out of mana all the time, your stamina and manapool is going to get on your nerves big time because you just have to stand there like an idiot waiting for it recharge, when you run out of mana-pots wich will happen often, you'll be chucking potions nonstop.


I agree the stamina bar was annoying. At least you didn't have high CDs on health potions. Hack n' Slashes are face paced games and shouldn't be limited by cooldowns like MMOs...

03/31/2013 11:03 AMPosted by Paulszki
WAY more active skills


As far as skills goes you may have more of them available to choose from in D3, but you have stupid cooldowns which prevent from freely switching to any skill assigned to any hot keys. Gone are the days when you easily could teleport your way through monsters without beeing OOM (Out Of Mana) or just switch between any skill within 1 or 2 seconds.
Edited by xKosciejx#2985 on 3/31/2013 11:27 AM PDT
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I clearly said that Act II mercs were the best. They were not called Templar though.

The point remains, in D3 all the followers are useful for their crowd control abilities and despite what some may think they can even deal considerable damage if geared correctly.

Also, Diablo2 mercs had exactly three gear slots. Weapon, Helmets, Chest Armor. So you remember wrong, which apparently a lot of nostalgia ridden players do.

About skills. Cooldowns ADD to the possibilities and nuances of combat. If there was no cooldown system then powerful feeling spells like Earthquake would break the balance of the game. This is also true for skills that make you invincible etc. it would trivialize the game if you could just spam "serenity".

The notion, that cooldowns are generally bad is foolish. Maybe you don't agree with some decisions (e.g. a lot of people don't like that there is a cooldown on teleport) but they have the clear advantage of allowing for much more varied skills and skill runes, that could otherwise not be implemented under the old system. There IS the wormhole - rune if you don't want to be restricted by cooldowns too much. But you can also use the illusion which is major lifesaver. It would be ridiculous if you just recast that skill all the time, basically making you invulnerable.

Barbarian Leap - Death from Above is another good example. I would just constanlty jump'n stun everything, and jump away from danger right after I foolishly jumped itn, trivializing combat.

Most of Diablo2 was a gear check. Not a skill check. In Diablo 3, even if some would not have you believe it, being aware and using your skills with cooldowns at the right time, especially in hardcore mode is much more rewarding that it ever was in Diablo2.

Cooldowns add to the experience because they make you think about how and when to use your skills because you can't just do everything all the time. The tradeoff is, that WHEN you get to use them, they're actually powerful and satisfying.

It's not like Diablo 3 is not a fastpaced game just because some skills have a cooldown of 8 seconds. Yes there are those with a 1 or even 2 minute cooldown. But these are so powerful, not having a cooldown on them would make them too strong and they wouldn't be in the game. They're awesome spells for when you encounter truly terrifying foes and need a lot of burst damage or 15 seconds of night unkillability.

Why anyone has a problem with cooldowns in Diablo3 is beyond me.
Edited by Paulszki#1462 on 3/31/2013 1:01 PM PDT
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Maybe you're right with the most powerfull skills, but I think 2 mins, is a bit too much 1 min would be enough. Also why can't you freely switch between skills without cooldowns or loosing NV is beyond me... All skills would still keep their cooldowns, but at least you would have the freedom to switch between them without any wait or NV loss, during battle by assigning them to Hot keys. Same thing with health potions CD shouldn't be more than 15s...
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