Diablo® III

You can't just "buff everyone else"

Would anyone like to bet about whether or not OP is a libertarian?
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04/27/2013 02:57 AMPosted by Rooder
I'm having a lot of fun playing a barb through HC right now, and have a 60/40 something on SC... my god is it ever truly hilarious how hard barbs are crying about this possible someday nerf. Huge bunch of babies lmao, you didn't see any serious monk complaints about the sweeping wind snapshot nerf. HOW TASTE YOUR TEARS


Youre right, all these crybaby barbs starting these threads. Oh wait, thats not what happened here...
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i absolutely agree with op. there is nothing wrong with nerfs over buffs.

why should they buff like 32 skills if they can just nerf one?

oh yeah and i don't care about any auctionhouse argument (waaah waaaah i just bought this super expensive item for this build and now they are nerfing it waaah waaah?)
Edited by HeavenlySky#2568 on 4/27/2013 5:27 AM PDT
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During Jay's era, I kinda understand what he wanted. He wanted to create challenge for the players in which he believed the players will always be better than what he made.

For one reason or another I realize Jay's time was better than now. Why? Every class have different roles.

Now? Barbs have all the important role, tanker, DPS, buffs (at least for himself). Wiz and Monk too doesn't need other class to play Inferno. While DH's role is purely as a joke.

The game was SO tough before and in a party of 4, my friends and I tried so hard even in Hell, not inferno. It was somehow fun.

Now, just play barb and put your face on the keyboard and roll.

OP is completely right, and of course Blue will not respond to this. All they want is to appeal to whiny players who want everything to be easy and nice.

I think, instead of buffing everyone to be as good as Barb, make everyone as lousy as DH. That way in a team, Barb will have to tank while others have to do other job like DPS, Disabling and Buffing the party.

Seriously Blizzard. Don't ruin this game for us. We paid for it. And I know you're still earning from RMAH. So please, make it a good game. REPLY TO THIS THREAD.
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During Jay's era, I kinda understand what he wanted. He wanted to create challenge for the players in which he believed the players will always be better than what he made.

For one reason or another I realize Jay's time was better than now. Why? Every class have different roles.

Now? Barbs have all the important role, tanker, DPS, buffs (at least for himself). Wiz and Monk too doesn't need other class to play Inferno. While DH's role is purely as a joke.

The game was SO tough before and in a party of 4, my friends and I tried so hard even in Hell, not inferno. It was somehow fun.

Now, just play barb and put your face on the keyboard and roll.

OP is completely right, and of course Blue will not respond to this. All they want is to appeal to whiny players who want everything to be easy and nice.

I think, instead of buffing everyone to be as good as Barb, make everyone as lousy as DH. That way in a team, Barb will have to tank while others have to do other job like DPS, Disabling and Buffing the party.

Seriously Blizzard. Don't ruin this game for us. We paid for it. And I know you're still earning from RMAH. So please, make it a good game. REPLY TO THIS THREAD.


So you want to make this into a F2P mmo? Now I know why everyone wants to nerf barbs, thanks for this post. Makes sense now.
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Suggesting to 'nerf' classes is ridiculous! If you think that another class is better than yours or more powerful, then be that class. I personally think that the most powerful class is the Barb, but I will not be it because I do not believe that a 90 year old man or a fat overweight woman can be the hero in ANY story. I still have the choice though to be a Barb.
It is funny how nobody asks to 'nerf' their own class, just everybody elses :)
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1. It will have unintended consequences.
Let's say we buff Big Bad Voodoo so that Witch Doctors can keep it up all the time to compensate. Oh, wait, now we've just made Witch Doctors mandatory for any Uber runs. Ok then, let's add some reduce cooldown on crits...well now we have a Witch Doctor build that can stay permanently in Spirit Walk.


You're creating your own hypothetical buffs and tearing them down (Strawman argument) when you should be focusing your argument on the core of the ideas you have.

Also your situation is flawed. If all classes are buffed then it becomes implausible that any one class will be required for anything.

I'd actually like to see infinite Spirit Walk be possible. Your physical body takes damage when it's active so it's not giving you invincibility like serenity or smoke screen does.

2. It will start an "arms race"
So we just buffed everyone and everyone is happy. Then suddenly all the Barbs are trading in their gear for Demon Hunter gear because the buff to Demon Hunters made them ridiculously OP (see #1). So we'll just buff everyone again...and now everyone's a Wizard.

If you just buff everyone, something is going to be overbuffed and ridiculous. Remember that WW Barbs never existed before a lot of buffs and nerfs, since they could not survive in original Inferno.


Again, if all classes are buffed there's no reason you can't play the class you want to play. That's the whole point of buffing classes.

You're also making the rash assumption that it's impossible to balance classes by buffing them without creating one supremely superior class. There may always be a degree of imbalance but it can be made minimal. If you believe otherwise then argue that point in a constructive and intelligent manner that fosters discussion.

3. It will make the game too easy again
If it's well-established that for the current game, one class is too powerful and as a result that class just tears through the highest difficulty, buffing will just result in everyone being too powerful. This doesn't conflict with the "you can never have too much power" design philosophy because you still need to have some sense of challenge. Go watch well-geared Barb videos, they just kind of mow down MP10.

Games have to be at least a little bit challenging in order to be fun, and if we just keep circle buffing every time something is OP, the game will just be stupidly easy (it already is but even more stupidly easy).


A game does need some sense of challenge. You're right. However in a game like this you also have to foster a sense reward that results in you being very powerful. That's what makes it fun. Those Well geared barbs may be mowing down monsters but they still have to move out of ground affects.

4. It's just plain harder on the development side
The forums seem to think that code comes out of a magic box. In reality, it takes time and effort to code things and as anyone who has written more than a "hello world" program will tell you, any time you change your code you will have unintended consequences.

Buffing a whole lot of skills in a way that is both interesting and viable is a LOT harder and will take a lot more time than just nerfing the overpowered skill in question.

So please, stop being dumb and saying "just buff everyone else!" If a single skill is causing something to not work as intended, it needs to be changed to work as intended. You don't change an entire game because one skill is broken, you change the obviously broken skill.


There may be bugs and design flaws along the way to balance but that's okay. Fix the bugs and change the design as you find the problems.

The thing is, the game isn't suffering because of one skill being too powerful. It's suffering from a lot of skills not working together and not being powerful and interesting enough to have fun with.
Edited by Eratosthenes#1858 on 4/27/2013 7:41 AM PDT
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Suggesting to 'nerf' classes is ridiculous! If you think that another class is better than yours or more powerful, then be that class. I personally think that the most powerful class is the Barb, but I will not be it because I do not believe that a 90 year old man or a fat overweight woman can be the hero in ANY story. I still have the choice though to be a Barb.
It is funny how nobody asks to 'nerf' their own class, just everybody elses :)


If you look carefully, I've played all other class to lv 60.

So you want DHs to nerf DHs? hahaha.... Surely.

"If you think that another class is better than yours or more powerful, then be that class." <-- this is a joke. So you're saying in 1.07 onwards people can only play Barbs?

Well for sure, really for sure, this game is becoming really easy for some class, and I guess playing easy game is what most people wanted.

Well, then buff all other class and make it easy. Blizzard will get more happy players than unhappy. I guess there are less players who like challenge...
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Suggesting to 'nerf' classes is ridiculous! If you think that another class is better than yours or more powerful, then be that class. I personally think that the most powerful class is the Barb, but I will not be it because I do not believe that a 90 year old man or a fat overweight woman can be the hero in ANY story. I still have the choice though to be a Barb.
It is funny how nobody asks to 'nerf' their own class, just everybody elses :)


If you look carefully, I've played all other class to lv 60.

So you want DHs to nerf DHs? hahaha.... Surely.

"If you think that another class is better than yours or more powerful, then be that class." <-- this is a joke. So you're saying in 1.07 onwards people can only play Barbs?

Well for sure, really for sure, this game is becoming really easy for some class, and I guess playing easy game is what most people wanted.

Well, then buff all other class and make it easy. Blizzard will get more happy players than unhappy. I guess there are less players who like challenge...


What exactly happened for barbs in 1.07? As far as i remember we have been the same since 1.03. We got a proc rate nerf on RLTW and overpower CA got nerfed (that was a bug though). Otherwise nothing that I remember has changed.
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So lets look at the past... Was a hammerdin too powerful? No. and nobody complained.. Lets face it, there were few other builds carrying a full game through bail runs. The WOTD WW barb is just like the hammerdin. leave him alone.
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Playing as a Barb is setting the game to easy mode. For kids or casual gamers. Leave them alone so the special kids can play too.

If u disagree then tell me which class has better passive skills, doesn't share gear, and gets a better boost from their main stat?

I say leave them alone for the non-gamers. If you know a person you would consider a real gamer that plays barb make fun of them for playing the no effort class. I already do


Don't be a bully. Especially not a hypocritical bully. You don't seem to play hardcore.
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Thanks Zoid for being able to think more than one step ahead and seeing the bigger picture. Good post.
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04/26/2013 12:38 PMPosted by Wukong
It's not about buffing/nerfing skills, it's about having different playstyles.
Ah, but consider this. WotB is so overpowered that you essentially only have one playstyle. Then you either have to buff other skills to compensate or nerf WotB. So it is in fact, about buffing/nerfing skills.

The problem with buffing other skills to compensate is that you're essentially making other abilities overpowered to match the level of power with WotB. So then you've just created more problems. Another OP build will emerge, everyone will flock to that one, and the whole nerf/buff cycle starts all over again.


just you don't know how to use other build and dont willing to take any challenge.
Edited by MADTHUNDER2#3452 on 4/27/2013 6:15 AM PDT
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Playing as a Barb is setting the game to easy mode. For kids or casual gamers. Leave them alone so the special kids can play too.

If u disagree then tell me which class has better passive skills, doesn't share gear, and gets a better boost from their main stat?

I say leave them alone for the non-gamers. If you know a person you would consider a real gamer that plays barb make fun of them for playing the no effort class. I already do


Don't be a bully. Especially not a hypocritical bully. You don't seem to play hardcore.


Sounds more like he's poking fun at his friends who play barb... but yeah, barb is absolutely (with WoTB+ToC) an easy mode class. No challenge in the least, negate all CC except for waller which is a mild inconvenience 99.9% of the time, and that .1 percent it bugs out and roots you for a few seconds lol. It's really, truly incredible that you can spend 30 mil or so and just spin in a circle, bang on two keys, and you just won't die. Vastly different experience for me to play barb when I'm used to monk.
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If a single skill is causing something to not work as intended, it needs to be changed to work as intended. You don't change an entire game because one skill is broken, you change the obviously broken skill.


^^^ This.

04/26/2013 08:08 PMPosted by tantricfuel
classes get balanced/nerfed every now and then. Some classes more than others. When its your turn for the nerf just do like what people who didn't quit do, adapt and move on.


+1

04/26/2013 11:27 AMPosted by Apathy
Buffs will come and go, All classes will range in power over time,


Buffs and Nerfs are both part of the equasion. They're not going to remove the skill - just tweak it to allow more Wotb downtime.
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Wow that hurt. I don't play hardcore because a dc or lag kills you. Hardcore was gr8 in D2, however hardcore seems like a big waste of time because I know what will kill my toon. Probably not a monster but sweet sweet lag or a dc.

Actually I do have a hardcore character named lagspikes as a joke because that is what is always killing my friends who play hardcore.

Basically I don't think the online only and hardcore is a good combo.

Thanks for the effort


My intention wasn't to 'hurt' you. I wanted to draw attention to the hypocrisy of you making fun of people for preferring a particular play style because it's "Easy mode" when you are not playing the game in the most difficult capacity. You don't like dying to lag spikes, they don't like not being able to WW.
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Wow that hurt. I don't play hardcore because a dc or lag kills you. Hardcore was gr8 in D2, however hardcore seems like a big waste of time because I know what will kill my toon. Probably not a monster but sweet sweet lag or a dc.

Actually I do have a hardcore character named lagspikes as a joke because that is what is always killing my friends who play hardcore.

Basically I don't think the online only and hardcore is a good combo.

Thanks for the effort


My intention wasn't to 'hurt' you. I wanted to draw attention to the hypocrisy of you making fun of people for preferring a particular play style because it's "Easy mode" when you are not playing the game in the most difficult capacity. You don't like dying to lag spikes, they don't like not being able to WW.


There's obviously a huge difference between comparing classes within the same play mode and comparing different play modes my man. Barbs are dead easy compared to any other class (assuming WoTB+ToC is involved)
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Nerf them good! !

Make it so barbs can't use any weapon over level 45, that will really help your class succeed.

Just remove WOTB from the game, and make call of the ancients attack of the oompa loompas, that should help with your classes survival in the higher mps.

While we are at it, cap the barbs aps at .5, then you will be able to facetank mp10 like a boss.

Really what everyone should be doing is thinking of ways to improve your own class, seems everyone thinks that reducing one skills viability will somehow make your class better.

I just hope they nerf it soon, cause I want to see how your class gets better.
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