Diablo® III

Pros outweigh the Cons for a D3 Ladder

all a ladder would do is split up the community, its already split between hardcore/softcore and different monster power levels. and stop acting like it doesnt affect people who dont wanna play it, it does affect them.

and yea having a ladder is so competitive that awesome race to become the highest level......ya well whoever doesnt have a job or go to school wins, for every other person out there who does things besides d3 we stand no chance, not that i care because d3 is not a competitive game, i play street fighter to compete with other people.
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Creating a ladder takes money. You do not pay a monthly sub. Thus, no ladder unless it comes with the expansion.
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Diablo needs a ladder.. or else it gets stale. Did anyone even play D2? Playing non-ladder was a waste of time unless you were pvping with your godly gear you've collected.
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I'd still honestly like to see someone come up with good reasons NOT to have a ladder. I have yet to see any. RMAH is not a good reason either because it can still work. Playing on NL will mean nothing different in your game play that you are currently doing now.

Anyone?


You do realize that whenever a Ladder character becomes a NL character, it's a death-sentence for the overwhelming majority of them, right?

Diablo 3 is not Diablo 2. You can't magically find a Shako, Hoz or whatever "mid tier unique" there was. In Diablo 3, you have so many item "slot". To be "set", you need to find many. The game is much more dependent on RNG. In Diablo 2, all it took was a single Shako to be "set".

Also, you do realize that many of us kept on playing through the game, good days, bad days, to have an advantage over you?
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04/28/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Odinn
I'd still honestly like to see someone come up with good reasons NOT to have a ladder.

Fragments player community. Causes people to restart for no real reason. Simple ladder offers no support to competitive players who would actually benefit from one. People would only use it to make billions of gold through flipping and other activities due to more trade occurring. Characters are worthless after ladder ends.

My suggestion aims to add a new mode to Diablo III, not just a new economy every few months.
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I spend money on RMAH, I will not be happy to lose this money.
I think blizzard can try to improve this game a little more, before implement resets.

The RMAH is a big problem for ladder.

We need more content, better events, better rolls. This game was release incomplete.
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all a ladder would do is split up the community, its already split between hardcore/softcore and different monster power levels. and stop acting like it doesnt affect people who dont wanna play it, it does affect them.

and yea having a ladder is so competitive that awesome race to become the highest level......ya well whoever doesnt have a job or go to school wins, for every other person out there who does things besides d3 we stand no chance, not that i care because d3 is not a competitive game, i play street fighter to compete with other people.

I don't see how it separates people any more then the technical part of being ladder or non ladder.

The casual gamer doesn't care for being ranked, hence, casual. The more active or hardcore players do care and allot the time to get on the ladder ranking. Im a disabled vet who cannot work and I don't have anywhere near the play time most people do, and this is now my only PC game I play. Not to mention you just said you don't care anyway.
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04/28/2013 04:56 PMPosted by bwest86
Creating a ladder takes money. You do not pay a monthly sub. Thus, no ladder unless it comes with the expansion.
I got no issues with releasing it during the expac. But then again the RMAH plus the sales alone are more then enough to fund the creation of a ladder.
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I'd still honestly like to see someone come up with good reasons NOT to have a ladder. I have yet to see any. RMAH is not a good reason either because it can still work. Playing on NL will mean nothing different in your game play that you are currently doing now.

Anyone?


You do realize that whenever a Ladder character becomes a NL character, it's a death-sentence for the overwhelming majority of them, right?

Diablo 3 is not Diablo 2. You can't magically find a Shako, Hoz or whatever "mid tier unique" there was. In Diablo 3, you have so many item "slot". To be "set", you need to find many. The game is much more dependent on RNG. In Diablo 2, all it took was a single Shako to be "set".

Also, you do realize that many of us kept on playing through the game, good days, bad days, to have an advantage over you?
I do realize, at least for me, the ladder character that went to NL became unused. That is because I did not duel or pvp. Majority of the players who played in NL, and there were LOTS, were duelers/pvpers. Now, D3's current state of pvp/dueling is crapola to put it midly. Maybe with the introduction of viable pvp/dueling this would make it easier to have the ladder implemented.

The items are supposed to be addressed soon to fix the overwhelming amount of unusable items. A ladder system would have to have a few game tweaks still before it could come out, items being one. Diablo 2 was an easier game really because one could beat all levels with ease with blue and yellow items. I think this is what the itemization patch is trying to do.

Not sure I understand your last comment. I didn't play to be better then you, because I didn't duel nor actually play for a spot on the top 10 ladder rankings. I played, aside from because the game was that fun, to find better items to trade for better items to increase my chance to clear things more efficiently. A ladder, just as NL, does that just fine by making items have value time and time again.
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It won't help anything other than force you to do what you clearly can't handle doing under your own will power, which is starting fresh.

The ladder system was an exercise in futility and a failed experiment. They created it to have a place where they could press a button and dump everything to keep the constant duping in check and they forced people to play it by offering ladder exclusive items/runewords. It did NOT work. Ladder rune packs were available for sale within 4 days of a new ladder season starting, all it took was one bot finding the right rune and the duping started all over again. They were forced to create an in-game event that required the most duped item in the game to be vendored, and it was constantly happening on the ladder. In the end, all it accomplished was promoting botting and duping for the profits to be had from idiots who need to be #1 in the new season.

That being said, you have the power to do what you want already. All you have to do is stop being a lazy bum and get together with all of the like-minded "I love ladder" folks, make a simple social website where you can congregate and organize your "ladder" seasons. You could even have a list that keeps track of peoples levels and create your own barter system to facilitate trading between other ladder players. Then it's just a matter of following the rules of your ladder.

No one is stopping you except for you.


Acually, you can't start fresh. Unfortunatly.You can't unshare your gold, or your blacksmith, and Gemcrafter levels, no unshared stash either. So, unfortunatly, there is no starting fresh.
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04/28/2013 05:37 PMPosted by DrSuperGood
I'd still honestly like to see someone come up with good reasons NOT to have a ladder.

Fragments player community. Causes people to restart for no real reason. Simple ladder offers no support to competitive players who would actually benefit from one. People would only use it to make billions of gold through flipping and other activities due to more trade occurring. Characters are worthless after ladder ends.

My suggestion aims to add a new mode to Diablo III, not just a new economy every few months.
Have you seen the current community lately? Its not anything like a community, its divided like no other game I've ever played. Its due to poor game design and decisions. I would use ladder to start fresh, when I find an item it has value I don't have to just say man look at the stats this has to be gre....oh wait, theres 100,000 better ones being sold/traded.

Im just not seeing the cons that are being listed as relevant because the D2 I played since launch up till a year ago didn't have these issues. Was I just not seeing this outcry of a fragmented community? The only split I saw was SC vs HC and maybe the pvpers vs non pvpers, both of which happen with out without a ladder.

The reoccuring thing im seeing for not having a ladder is the sense that NL is subpar as opposed to current ladder characters. If no "ladder only" items weren't, where is the issue? If people who don't like the ladder want to play non ladder, then what are the disadvantages to it? It worked in d2, it can work in d3 (of course with a few things done first like proper itemization and REAL pvp)
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Creating a separate ladder mode independent from softcore and hardcore is a win for everyone.

I'd stick exclusively with softcore personally but even it's economy would settle since botters and dupers have much more to gain on a ladder server.
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The reoccuring thing im seeing for not having a ladder is the sense that NL is subpar as opposed to current ladder characters. If no "ladder only" items weren't, where is the issue? If people who don't like the ladder want to play non ladder, then what are the disadvantages to it? It worked in d2, it can work in d3 (of course with a few things done first like proper itemization and REAL pvp)

Without a reason to play ladder (Diablo II had rigged items that were only available in ladder forcing players to play ladder) you would only have a few hundred players playing it (people like you who want a fresh start) so nothing will sell as there is no demand. Instead of "I have this uber item, oh wait there are 100s better so I will have to give it away" it will be "I have this uber item, oh wait one can afford to pay me anything decent for it so I will have to give it away".

To me it sounds like you want a second chance to get rich rather than to play. You think that because the economy is new everything will sell at insane prices. For the first few months even the best items will sell dirt cheap or be paid for using SC/HC characters as there is no gold to buy stuff. Then prices will increase to the value you get in HC at the moment all the time (the cheapest Mempo is 23M in HC). They will remain like that for HC (except fewer players will make it harder to sell). In SC they will then fall to the current SC prices as no one needs the gear (demand gone).

Ladder could become a competitive mode fulfilling a currently unfulfilled roll. The competitive nature would drive players from non-ladder onto it so the economy will flourish. The possible rewards are great enough that you could get rich if you are lucky. Best is that "pro" Diablo III players can show off how good they are thanks to performance measures and leader boards.

04/28/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Odinn
Its not anything like a community, its divided like no other game I've ever played.

That is due to language barriers more than anything else. StarCraft II is exactly the same where virtually no one on Europe talks. This might not be the problem on the US servers.
Edited by DrSuperGood#1327 on 4/28/2013 7:39 PM PDT
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The only way that I would support a ladder if the following were true.

1. Itemization is fixed, without this a ladder is just a band aid IMO.

2. As long as it is not forced on us, meaning that our SC and HC characters are automatically ladder characters. That would be dumb IMO to force us to play on a ladder.

3. Blizz has to implement it properly. A poorly done ladder might hurt the game more than it could help.
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Ladder helps with everything. Dupes, items flooding the economy, feeling of being stale...etc


No, it doesn't.
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Without a reason to play ladder (Diablo II had rigged items that were only available in ladder forcing players to play ladder) you would only have a few hundred players playing it (people like you who want a fresh start) so nothing will sell as there is no demand. Instead of "I have this uber item, oh wait there are 100s better so I will have to give it away" it will be "I have this uber item, oh wait one can afford to pay me anything decent for it so I will have to give it away".
The whole reason to play ladder was to be on the ladder. For some people like me, the thought of wiping the game and making it new was better then being ranked. I didn't ever play an e-sport type game till I joined WoW. I disagree whole heartedly people played the d2 ladder for the ladder only items. I have never heard anyone ever mention this before you.

To me it sounds like you want a second chance to get rich rather than to play. You think that because the economy is new everything will sell at insane prices. For the first few months even the best items will sell dirt cheap or be paid for using SC/HC characters as there is no gold to buy stuff. Then prices will increase to the value you get in HC at the moment all the time (the cheapest Mempo is 23M in HC). They will remain like that for HC (except fewer players will make it harder to sell). In SC they will then fall to the current SC prices as no one needs the gear (demand gone

You're kind of correct. Except I want to become "rich" to be able to afford upgrades I want. I don't "think" the prices will be insane at the start of the season, I know. Its not just gaining wealth, all though its fun, its about having wealth to be able to get the ideal gear. I don't believe that things will sell dirt cheap from the get go becuase of the RMAH. You can buy gold, buy items.

Ladder could become a competitive mode fulfilling a currently unfulfilled roll. The competitive nature would drive players from non-ladder onto it so the economy will flourish. The possible rewards are great enough that you could get rich if you are lucky. Best is that "pro" Diablo III players can show off how good they are thanks to performance measures and leader boards.
This is what the ladder is intended for, I just like the other parts of it also. The race to paragon level 100 was also very publicized on the forums fyi.

That is due to language barriers more than anything else. StarCraft II is exactly the same where virtually no one on Europe talks. This might not be the problem on the US servers
This has nothing to do with language, it has to do with personal opinions of the game and its direction. I've played hundreds of games and been on forums for chat, adivce and other things but no where have I seen such a ravenous bunch of divided players then here. I know why, D2 old schoolers vs D3 New players. But alas, none of this will change things to suit everyone.
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Ladder helps with everything. Dupes, items flooding the economy, feeling of being stale...etc


No, it doesn't.
Oh thanks, that detailed explanation helped me change my mind!
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I disagree whole heartedly people played the d2 ladder for the ladder only items. I have never heard anyone ever mention this before you.

Odd that this is a new concept to you. The vast majority of the people I used to play with played ladder for that reason alone. They didn't care about ranks or winning the race. They just wanted access to all the content available in the game. It was total BS to have ladder only cube recipes and items. If ladder was such a good idea to get a fresh start, why did they have to use such tactics to get people to play it? Maybe there wasn't as much demand for it as you think.
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