Diablo® III

bots?

Double Post to explain how a live auction works - I don't think many people know (heck, many people have never even seen one TBH.)

A live auction has a middle-man (Auctioneer) acting as liaison between what will eventually be two-four bidders (just natural dwindle of interest). The Auctioneer offers a suggested starting price to hook a starting bid, lowering the suggested until someone agrees. Anyone can start the bidding at any price chosen (Ex: Auctioneer says "starting at $100.00, you can start at $5.00 or $5,000.00). They then suggest consecutively higher bids to trump the previous bid. Bidding ends when the auctioneer accepts no more bids, to which the highest recognized bid is taken - new bids may roll back the accepted time or time may be a static point. The highest recognized bid pays the price that the bidder offered as bid - if a bidder wins the auction by bidding $100.00, they pay $100.00. Should the bidder be unable to pay (generally on site and with cash.) then the next highest bidder is awarded the item at the price that they had offered to pay.

The problem Blizz has created is that they place payment as the secondary bid, but the trump bid pays that secondary bid - therefor any bid above the secondary bid has no risk affiliated - no loss of money is made by bidding, save the amount you bid against. Blizz attempts to reconcile that by adding the 15% tax, but with bots putting things up for such stupid prices (see my above for an example of what I mean). The 15% is the only real loss - there was hardly a bid to trump at all. Therefor, you have a risk-less money dump that has a 15% tax for use, only in the event of winning, which provides you with, in essence, any item you damn well please for a 20% cost (about 20%, given the increase in price to lock the item for your own, compiled into the 15% tax.)

Tell me how this makes sense? I can guarantee you that someone is making money on this concept. One half the botting goes to flipping, the other half goes to selling. Easy Peasy Money.
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07/23/2013 04:49 PMPosted by Rage


It is not a flaw.


Flaws are in the eye of the beholder. This will not safeguard against flipping. More experienced flippers will actually use the hidden system to their advantage as many less experienced flippers do not know about this.


+1

Therefore is a flaw
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90 Worgen Death Knight
0
Ok i understand now. lol. didnt know it kept the highest bid hidden.

thanks all for the help :)
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See finally people giving decent advice the last two or so posts. The other people probably pay to win on this game with their ebay earnings from selling arts and crafts for $2 a piece and are mad I pointed out some flaws in their system.

Now I am not saying the automated bidding system is without merit and the system has a ton of benefits. I am pointing out flaws and like the last two posters pointed out, ways to improve the system exist and some work arounds exist. Sorry arts and crafts sellers but your system isn't perfect and has flaws.


Yes try to demean those who do not agree with you and point out why you're wrong, that makes your arguments sound so much more intelligent...

Proxy bidding system if fine, but what would help the game is making the timers invisible. The actions stays up for 1d12h but no one could actually see the timer, preventing people from sniping at the last millisecond and refreshing like crazy for the 1d12h buyouts.

As long as bigger and faster progress can be achieved by exploiting AH mechanics rather than by actually playing the game, the game will stay broken for 95% of the playerbase.


Snipers still have to bid high enough to be the winning bidder. If you bid the max you're willing to spend what difference does it make WHEN you get out bid? Snipers bid the max they are willing to spend. Sure there may be some that "take a shot" and try to win by bidding the smallest amount they can but those people take a bigger risk that they will not win the item and more often than not will lose the item.

Double Post to explain how a live auction works - I don't think many people know (heck, many people have never even seen one TBH.)

Tell me how this makes sense? I can guarantee you that someone is making money on this concept. One half the botting goes to flipping, the other half goes to selling. Easy Peasy Money.


The change you're talking about to where the winning bidder only pays the amount of the second high bid was put in place recently to stop the situation we had before where anyone with half a brain could figure out what the current high bidders maximum bid was. Unscrupulous sellers would use alt accounts or have friends figure out the max bid currently on an item and then bid up the auction to just under that persons max bid. People WERE profiting from the way it was and I'm not seeing how someone can "make money" as you claim from the way it is now but I'm happy to have you explain it to me since you're so convinced it's happening. Please try to explain it in a way that is understandable though as you're last post took a few times reading through to understand exactly what it was you were trying to say.
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Posted by Rage
Ok let's say I have 20 million gold. I see a mempo of twilight helm I want for 10 million and an IK chest armor I want for 10 million. The maximum I am willing to pay for either item is 15 mil. The current bid for each is 7.5 mil. If I bid the maximum I am willing to pay of 15 mil on one item, then I lose the opportunity to bid on the other item. Advice to always bid my maximum amount I am willing to bid on an item is terrible advice.


If you only have 20 million gold, then you can't bid the maximum you would pay for both items. In this case 15m. Choose an item or go farm 10 million more gold.

So either take the advice or don't take it. It's free advice. The advice was to help you get the item you want not how to spend your 20m gold on 2 different items.
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Yes and maybe the game shouldn't work like this because of how frustrating this is. Why show a value of 40 mil when the actual bid is 65 mil? The actual bidded amount should be shown. The current way does not make sense and I am sure this will not be fixed either like most of the other flaws.


In real life bidding, you don't know how high someone may go. All you have to work off of is what you see about them in the room, but that doesn't tell you enough unless you're the embodiment of the mythical Sherlock Holmes. Bidding in game or on Ebay is different of course. We can't stay up all night hoping to get something. We simply conclude ahead of time how much an item is worth to us, set our bid, and let the system roll with it.

I know you want to get the item for the lowest retail price, but once you realize that no matter what you bid, your item is being watched by someone else who will also go as high as they feel it's worth, you may begin to realized what price you really want an item for and go for it.

Are you willing to drop a billion gold bid on an item and just let it go until you get it or not?

Are you afraid someone is going to try and push you to the limit and then leave you hanging with an exorbitant bill at the end?

if you answered No and then Yes to those questions in that order, high stakes bidding may not be in your field of interest.

Posted by Rage
Ok let's say I have 20 million gold. I see a mempo of twilight helm I want for 10 million and an IK chest armor I want for 10 million. The maximum I am willing to pay for either item is 15 mil. The current bid for each is 7.5 mil. If I bid the maximum I am willing to pay of 15 mil on one item, then I lose the opportunity to bid on the other item. Advice to always bid my maximum amount I am willing to bid on an item is terrible advice.


If you only have 20 million gold, then you can't bid the maximum you would pay for both items. In this case 15m. Choose an item or go farm 10 million more gold.

So either take the advice or don't take it. It's free advice. The advice was to help you get the item you want not how to spend your 20m gold on 2 different items.


One's frustration does not necessarily warrant change. Everyone has their breaking points, but somewhere along the way, someone who is working to make something like Diablo III must create baseline minimums and maximums and then stick with it. Change if required.

Bidding is, in a way, like gambling. You may well overpay for something that isn't worth that much. Diablo III shouldn't be designed to where you can look at those two items on the AH and say well I deserve to have both simultaneously. You just have to choose to take the chance at both at the same time or lay it out for one or the other.

dems da berries

All I can do is shrug my shoulders and wonder if you'll figure it out.
Edited by Lykos#1124 on 7/24/2013 10:07 AM PDT
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Figure it out? I have it figured out much more than you do.

I love how some people are so sure of themselves and insult others when they sound like they have no clue what they are talking about.

Also to the guy saying demean others when I was being demeaned after proving people wrong, don't try to do a double standard.

What's great about opinions is it is sometimes good other people are wrong so you can get ahead of them in what you do and laugh that they fell behind for their flawed logic.
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Yes and maybe the game shouldn't work like this because of how frustrating this is. Why show a value of 40 mil when the actual bid is 65 mil? The actual bidded amount should be shown. The current way does not make sense and I am sure this will not be fixed either like most of the other flaws.


LOL it works this way so every person can bid what they are willing to pay at a maximum, not be at the computer, and still win the bid for the lowest price possible. Because there are items on the AH that I would love to have but most of them expire during the day. I work during the day like most of the population and do not have time to bid on items every hour of the day. I am glad it works this way, and I hope you see the point of it.
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Figure it out? I have it figured out much more than you do.

I love how some people are so sure of themselves and insult others when they sound like they have no clue what they are talking about.

Also to the guy saying demean others when I was being demeaned after proving people wrong, don't try to do a double standard.

What's great about opinions is it is sometimes good other people are wrong so you can get ahead of them in what you do and laugh that they fell behind for their flawed logic.


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9499181757?page=3#46

I reread my post to make sure, and I did not find any insults directed towards you. I'm not flaming you or angry or insulting. You want solutions, we understand, and I'm just offering my two cents on how chance and opportunity work. It's up to you to make the best choice with what you're given in game.
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OP understands the bidding process now, so there is no reason to keep insulting him or posting your thoughts about the AH.
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07/23/2013 06:40 PMPosted by Rage
Ok let's say I have 20 million gold. I see a mempo of twilight helm I want for 10 million and an IK chest armor I want for 10 million. The maximum I am willing to pay for either item is 15 mil. The current bid for each is 7.5 mil. If I bid the maximum I am willing to pay of 15 mil on one item, then I lose the opportunity to bid on the other item. Advice to always bid my maximum amount I am willing to bid on an item is terrible advice.


Realistically, if those are worth 15 mil, and other people are willing to pay 15 mil for them, then if you do bid 10 mil both of them, you are highly likely to not get either. What bidding 10 mil on both of them will do is tie up all your capital. If you are out-bidded on either one, you'll be left with a measly 10 mil in your pocket which you can't reinvest into either auctions. And it's likely that the time when you get outbidded on the other auction, you will not have the time to reinvest your gold into it.

Because it's likely that the auctions would have a different ending time, you are much better served to bid on the earlier one with the maximum price you are willing to pay at the last possible moment. If you win it, you might still have enough capital to bid on the second one. If you do lose it, you'll have enough capital to bid on the second one.

Frankly though, the problem is simply that you don't have enough capital. You just simply can't afford to buy them both.
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07/23/2013 04:42 PMPosted by Vaeflare
I am currently trying to win a bid for a legendary right now, but every time i put in a bid, it says i have lost, and when i check what the winning bid is, its 1 gold larger than mine...so i try to bid every second with random numbers and its 1 gold larger than mine each time..?
It sounds from your example that the the previous/current bidder actually placed a higher maximum bid before you placed your bids. Because your bids have all been lower than the maximum bid that the other player is willing to play (and this maximum amount is hidden so that you cannot see it), each time you place a bid, they've still been coming out ahead of you, and will continue to be "in the lead" until your maximum bid exceeds their maximum bid.

[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9499181757#2"]LapChi's explanation[/url] is a good one, and I'd encourage you to read over our [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/items/auction-house#bidding"]Game Guide article on how bidding works in Diablo III[/url] as well.


How about fixing '0 bids' on really good items, it can't be all coincidence that items worth more in RMAH or d2jsp gets this bug.
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ROFL... all you people who are responding to this guy are getting trolled so hard.
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I agree with this guy. Why Blizzard hide the max. bid and shows the current bid ???
What's the point with the current bid if you hide the max. bid from the people?
I think Blizzard is trying to cover it up that they know there is a bot in AH that bids
every time when someone bid on it.
For example there are two items almost similar to each other, and each one was
posted in AH and set the starting bid for 1,000 gold and 2.000 gold for the other item
by different user.
I bid on one of the item, it says "bid is accepted and am winning."
I bid on the other item, and it says my bid is lower, so I'm not winning,
so I bid on much higher price, and still says I lost the bid.

See how the bot is working here? The bid I won is like normal people who put
up their item. Where I lost every bid, is controlled by the bot.
Yes, there is a bot in the game. And you can see in the chat, some users are
selling gold.
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Proxy bidding is more convenient, but for a community of people who seem to complain about the difficulty of their game being too easy, it is a bit counter-intuitive to defend a bidding system which encourages laziness. Proxy bidding, from what I can tell, is a product of online auction houses predicated upon the finite time placed upon an online auction. In the case of an auction with no time limit established upon the end being reached when people stop bidding, there is no need for proxy bidding. I understand why there is a need for proxy bidding, but the problem I have with it is I feel like I am not actually bidding on anything, but really just "purchasing something" and hoping to find a "buyout" item. This actually creates a flea market feel to me. I also find myself bidding on multiple duplicate items in the hopes of winning just one of these items. Proxy bidding has some very strong ideas behind it, but as many community members have pointed out, it is a flaw. It is something which needs to be "fixed", but it will require much smarter people than myself to fix it.
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07/23/2013 01:49 PMPosted by Deathicious
I am currently trying to win a bid for a legendary right now, but every time i put in a bid, it says i have lost, and when i check what the winning bid is, its 1 gold larger than mine...so i try to bid every second with random numbers and its 1 gold larger than mine each time..?


wow kids will be wow kids
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For example there are two items almost similar to each other, and each one was
posted in AH and set the starting bid for 1,000 gold and 2.000 gold for the other item
by different user.
I bid on one of the item, it says "bid is accepted and am winning."
I bid on the other item, and it says my bid is lower, so I'm not winning,
so I bid on much higher price, and still says I lost the bid.

See how the bot is working here? The bid I won is like normal people who put
up their item. Where I lost every bid, is controlled by the bot.
Yes, there is a bot in the game. And you can see in the chat, some users are
selling gold.


No, nothing you've said here is an indication of a bot.
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