Diablo® III

Loot 2.0, discovering its true potential.

Wow. I have to say... I'm thoroughly impressed. For the first time in a year an actual fellow Diablo player has put most other ideas to shame or made them better. Congrats for being brilliant. Blizzard... here's your man. Crown him!
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Except for the MF idea which I'm not sure about all other ideas are just awesome.
Did you read it Mr. Josh?
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as far as op posted good suggestions, there's always going to be that one high ranking idiot who would say, 'i think it's better this way......'

i mean, you saw d3 right?
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"Oh, look colourful pictures, I LOVE it!"

Now that the obligatory !@#$%^-*!@ is done with let's look at these suggestions.

Sparkling legendary beam: Why add that? You only trivialize the nonsparkly legendary beams. What happens if you see 2 nonsparkly legendary drops? "Bleh, not good, could have been just been a blue/rare item, I won't bother picking it up"

Drop rates: We currently have these rare legendaries and the main issue is not being addressed. If you found that one sword that's 100 times less likely to drop than the other one does it have to make the old one obsolete? If yes, you hit the brick wall again, but this time you decreased your chances for upgrades by a factor of 100. If no, it trivializes the joy of finding it.
Possible solution: Super rare legendary = Super niche unique? Not stronger, just different (replaces your dogs with skeletons, replaces meteor with bomb, whatever).

Rewarding the Hunt: Achievements are fine on paper, but considering you have absolutely no influence on these kind of achievements most players will absolutely not care. I think they had good reasons for not implementing damagebuffs via achievements, but I agree, some sort of reward is waaay better than just achievementpoints.
Lorebooks: + definitely my type of thing. I'd like to have more to listen to/read.

Magic Find: The weirdest of the suggestions. I play selffound and I can barely make it to MP4, which means I'll never get the "real normal" magicfind value.
Besides, player dislike stacking 5 stacks of NV already, forcing them into long playing sessions won't be liked. Unless you mean the player isn't losing the NV when he logs out, but in that case you could just scrap the thing completely and give everybody 500% right away.

Crafting:
More crafting mats: Now that's a difficult topic. How do these materials justify their existence? Currently they are split into rarity. Splitting the brimstones doesnt really accomplish anything except for forcing the player to create items he has the materials for instead of creating items he wants.
The unique monsters materials is a lot more interesting since that actually has a purpose behind it, but adding 80 new reagents isn't exactly a step in the right direction. One new crafting mat is enough. Let the mystic operate with them and its fine.

Inventory for crafting mats: Why even bother giving it an inventory? Crafting mats shouldnt even be part of the regular inventory. You cant click them, you cant use them, you cant activate them. They have absolutely no right to be in the players inventory to begin with. Move them to a seperate crafting material window so the player doesnt have to sigh when he accidentally picks one up.

Mystic: Yes, everybody loves the idea of getting better items and stuff but that simple increase just doesn't seem to do it. You have 13 slots with 6 affixes each. It's simply to... much to look at and it doesn't even do anything unique or special. I'd be very dissappointed if the mystic ships as this "stat-#$%^-" and nothing more. The player will look at this and think "I increased my crit by 0.5%, next week I'll increase my crit by another 0.5% and then again and then again". It'll get monotonous VERY quickly, because it lacks randomization or any sort of surprise.
Besides, it decreases your chances of finding loot as it raises the bar for every future drop.

Legendaries:
New runes for abilities through legendaries: +++ absolutely has to happen. But first I'd like to see at least 2 runes per ability removed. 5 variations per ability is just stupid and not necessary. It has huge problems though as balancing this will be very hard:
If the new ability is even slightly stronger it completely trivializes the other runes, at this point you could tie every rune to items and not bother giving the player any "base" runes. Do not fool yourselves by thinking there wont be an "optimal" rune if you put it on items. The only thing that will happen is that the player isn't now restricted in the build he takes but even in the items he uses. This might lead to players being even less unique/different than they already are.

(Please reduce the amount of pictures in your posts as it attracts all those people that shouldn't be discussing these sort of things)
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Besides, if you want these changes to make it then saying "oh I want I want" is as trivial and useless as starting an online petition.

Start elaborating which of these changes you like and WHY you like it. Blizzard isn't releasing 2 patches a month for a reason is because they dont want to cater to the shortsighted "gimme gimme" criers.
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I hope Blizzard reads this and considers it :) Good job.
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What can I say?
I want this game you described.
Every suggestion, except MF changes is perfect for me. Right now I'm not playing diablo 3, because I'll have to go afk in 20 minutes, and I would loose my NV stacks nearly just after gaining it. So, no - it would not be good, to force players to sit long hours in game. But the rest - THE REST. Wealth unimaginable!
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Absolutely amazing suggestions, I won't let this thread leave the top page.

Thanks OP
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Perfect vision of what I expect from this game. Thank you for this.
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07/22/2013 04:16 AMPosted by Dwelve
Sparkling legendary beam: Why add that? You only trivialize the nonsparkly legendary beams. What happens if you see 2 nonsparkly legendary drops? "Bleh, not good, could have been just been a blue/rare item, I won't bother picking it up"


This post of his may clarify things for you. He linked the picture from it, but this will spell out in more detail what use legendaries will still have even if you salvage them:

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/92276-patch-109-preview-a-dream/#entry1158569

Drop rates: We currently have these rare legendaries and the main issue is not being addressed. If you found that one sword that's 100 times less likely to drop than the other one does it have to make the old one obsolete? If yes, you hit the brick wall again, but this time you decreased your chances for upgrades by a factor of 100. If no, it trivializes the joy of finding it.
Possible solution: Super rare legendary = Super niche unique? Not stronger, just different (replaces your dogs with skeletons, replaces meteor with bomb, whatever).


This was addressed with the section detailing possibilities for the special effects on a Legendary item in the section of his post marked "Legendary Items" near the end. There are a lot of different ways the developers could add flavor and strength to Legendary items without making any specific one instantly viewed as "garbage". Part of this ties in with the skills/runes. Remember, the point is to make the items offer a choice of what to take, use, or trade with, not simply to upgrade and trivialize everything else.

Rewarding the Hunt: Achievements are fine on paper, but considering you have absolutely no influence on these kind of achievements most players will absolutely not care. I think they had good reasons for not implementing damagebuffs via achievements, but I agree, some sort of reward is waaay better than just achievementpoints.
Lorebooks: + definitely my type of thing. I'd like to have more to listen to/read.


You're only partially correct here. While RNG plays its part, you do have control over how you search for items and whether or not you identify them to trigger the meta-requirements for the achievement to give you your rewards. You could go the UnID route and make money on somebody else's gamble or you could identify the item and use it or sell it. Again it's about giving the player rewards and options based on those rewards.

Magic Find: The weirdest of the suggestions. I play selffound and I can barely make it to MP4, which means I'll never get the "real normal" magicfind value.
Besides, player dislike stacking 5 stacks of NV already, forcing them into long playing sessions won't be liked. Unless you mean the player isn't losing the NV when he logs out, but in that case you could just scrap the thing completely and give everybody 500% right away.


I addressed this with my response to Monstrous, letting him know of these concerns and the cons that go with it, and a possible solution. And the numbers shown, as I noted, are not "set in stone", but are completely malleable. If left at 15% per stack it would take 34 elite packs to reach 500% from a start of 0% MF/GF. Now, using my solution of keeping the MF/GF as an affix option, players with those two stats on their gear will have a head start on reaching the cap, thus shortening their ramp up time, but will do so willingly at the cost of more powerful or interesting affixes. It's a choice. Each method of playing the game can result in reaching the cap, but the player decides which is best, not a numbers scale.

Crafting:
More crafting mats: Now that's a difficult topic. How do these materials justify their existence? Currently they are split into rarity. Splitting the brimstones doesnt really accomplish anything except for forcing the player to create items he has the materials for instead of creating items he wants.
The unique monsters materials is a lot more interesting since that actually has a purpose behind it, but adding 80 new reagents isn't exactly a step in the right direction. One new crafting mat is enough. Let the mystic operate with them and its fine.


Unless I misread the description in the post I linked you at the beginning of this post, the crafting materials are created based on the elemental property/properties of the Legendary item being salvaged. The drop rates of those particular Legendaries could conceivably be kept relatively close together to ensure a roughly equal supply of each available type of crafting material.

I would add though that if used in any "self-found" mode that the drop chance would need to be 100% for these or else it would take too long to feel rewarding for the player. The base drop chance would need to be at least as good as the Demonic Essences are on MP10 in any mode regardless for that same reason. But as I noted before, the numbers aren't final and can be adjusted to accomodate whatever is needed.

07/22/2013 04:16 AMPosted by Dwelve
Inventory for crafting mats: Why even bother giving it an inventory? Crafting mats shouldnt even be part of the regular inventory. You cant click them, you cant use them, you cant activate them. They have absolutely no right to be in the players inventory to begin with. Move them to a seperate crafting material window so the player doesnt have to sigh when he accidentally picks one up.


You're asking for a World of Warcraft "currency" type system. That would kill the gem market completely, making all gems essentially self found as there would be no way to sell or trade them. That's why a separate crafting materials screen would be brought up. That's a lot of squares for crafting materials you will be getting in addition to your normal item based inventory slots. And you still have your stash as well, so this really isn't a negative, but more of a positive, especially considering the current stack sizes available.

Mystic: Yes, everybody loves the idea of getting better items and stuff but that simple increase just doesn't seem to do it. You have 13 slots with 6 affixes each. It's simply to... much to look at and it doesn't even do anything unique or special. I'd be very dissappointed if the mystic ships as this "stat-#$%^-" and nothing more. The player will look at this and think "I increased my crit by 0.5%, next week I'll increase my crit by another 0.5% and then again and then again". It'll get monotonous VERY quickly, because it lacks randomization or any sort of surprise.
Besides, it decreases your chances of finding loot as it raises the bar for every future drop.


If the item had a set number of "upgrade" slots avaialble, one would have to make a decision on which stat(s) to upgrade. And to aid the economic front and the overall longevity of the game, these items, once upgraded, would become Bound to Account, as are any items created with BoA crafting materials. This allows the player to find their own items and upgrade them, or continue to buy those items and upgrade those with the caveat that once they do perform an upgrade they'll need to find something themselves or purchase something better. On the latter point there is no difference between the upgrade path preventing you from finding upgrades and buying uber gear preventing you from finding upgrades now. In both cases it is a player choice. But in the absence of actually finding better gear, you get the option of improving yours slightly so you at least have some path to progression.

Legendaries:
New runes for abilities through legendaries: +++ absolutely has to happen. But first I'd like to see at least 2 runes per ability removed. 5 variations per ability is just stupid and not necessary. It has huge problems though as balancing this will be very hard:
If the new ability is even slightly stronger it completely trivializes the other runes, at this point you could tie every rune to items and not bother giving the player any "base" runes. Do not fool yourselves by thinking there wont be an "optimal" rune if you put it on items. The only thing that will happen is that the player isn't now restricted in the build he takes but even in the items he uses. This might lead to players being even less unique/different than they already are.


Because the new "rune" is attached to the item itself, the player has a choice to make: Take that item specifically because of the rune and potentially lose out elsewhere, or use what they want for their chosen build. With enough diversity in such exotic runes, players will have choices even within a specific build depending on how they wish to play that build. Nothing says any single build has to have X and only X rune in order to be effective when there are diversified choices.

As for reducing the number of runes for each skill, that would make the leveling process feel pretty bad. It isn't the quantity that is the problem here, it's the quality of the current runes. Revamp the weaker ones to compete with the current "good" ones and suddenly you add quite a bit more choice back into the mix.

07/22/2013 04:16 AMPosted by Dwelve
(Please reduce the amount of pictures in your posts as it attracts all those people that shouldn't be discussing these sort of things)


What? That doesn't even make sense. :headscratch:
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Lets hope some blue sees this and takes it to the designers.Its a great post with a lot of promise.Hope to see a solution for the monster that critical damage has become by the OP.His ideas are awesome
-The only thing i disagree with him is completely removing magic find from items.In my opinion it should not.Remove from paragon levels but at the moment we need more interesting affixes and magic find is one of them,so make it exist only in items and give some small bonus from nephalem valor or a potion
Edited by Spawn16#2671 on 7/22/2013 5:22 AM PDT
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gave you a thumbs up so blizz reads it!
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great post now if only blizz will consider making them a reality
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07/22/2013 04:16 AMPosted by Dwelve
Sparkling legendary beam: Why add that? You only trivialize the nonsparkly legendary beams. What happens if you see 2 nonsparkly legendary drops? "Bleh, not good, could have been just been a blue/rare item, I won't bother picking it up"


The only reason I'd like to see sparkling legendary beams would be if they were MY legendary drops. I think they should show mine like that and other players legendary drops as the standard beam. It's fun to see when other people get a drop.
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This is amazing. Please let a blue see this... +1 OP for your creativity. I wish you were working on the D3 team.
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Great ideas, +1. The only things I would change is if you are going to remove MF don't replace it with anything like NV find and in regards to legendary items being rare like in D2 I fear that due to the AH you would have to make the more rare legendary items be BoC to achieve that feeling.
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This post of his may clarify things for you. He linked the picture from it, but this will spell out in more detail what use legendaries will still have even if you salvage them:http://www.diablofans.com/topic/92276-patch-109-preview-a-dream/#entry1158569


The question was why add more sparkle to the beam? It doesn't serve any purpose. If you can identify the item right away as it drops there's no need to let the item unidentified at all. You might as well just call the legendary by its name. The only thing that will happen is that you will be saddened every time your legendary beam DOES NOT sparkle.

07/22/2013 04:52 AMPosted by TheTias
You're only partially correct here. While RNG plays its part, you do have control over how you search for items and whether or not you identify them to trigger the meta-requirements for the achievement to give you your rewards. You could go the UnID route and make money on somebody else's gamble or you could identify the item and use it or sell it. Again it's about giving the player rewards and options based on those rewards.


As a player you have NO control over how you search for items. That's the problem. If you put a reward on trading that reward shouldn't benefit outside of trades because the player that has earned this achievement on his own should be rewarded more than the average AH flipper.

I addressed this with my response to Monstrous, letting him know of these concerns and the cons that go with it, and a possible solution. And the numbers shown, as I noted, are not "set in stone", but are completely malleable. If left at 15% per stack it would take 34 elite packs to reach 500% from a start of 0% MF/GF. Now, using my solution of keeping the MF/GF as an affix option, players with those two stats on their gear will have a head start on reaching the cap, thus shortening their ramp up time, but will do so willingly at the cost of more powerful or interesting affixes. It's a choice. Each method of playing the game can result in reaching the cap, but the player decides which is best, not a numbers scale.


How is this any better than the current system? If you have low PL you simply stock up on mf and you are capped instantly. No pressure outside of that. You play as long as you want and you quit whenever you want. With a mf ramp up time of 30 minutes and more people will feel very very quikly depressed every time they log off after 20 minutes or less.

Unless I misread the description in the post I linked you at the beginning of this post, the crafting materials are created based on the elemental property/properties of the Legendary item being salvaged. The drop rates of those particular Legendaries could conceivably be kept relatively close together to ensure a roughly equal supply of each available type of crafting material.I would add though that if used in any "self-found" mode that the drop chance would need to be 100% for these or else it would take too long to feel rewarding for the player. The base drop chance would need to be at least as good as the Demonic Essences are on MP10 in any mode regardless for that same reason. But as I noted before, the numbers aren't final and can be adjusted to accomodate whatever is needed.


Yes I read all about the colourful crafting mats and again I still have to wonder... why? What does this add? Imagine this situation: You find a new recipe and it costs fire brimstones. You have 20 brimstones of each colour. You end up using all of the fire stones and now? You are left with 100 other useless brimstones. Imagine you want to go heavy fire damage so you need even more firestones. Why do that? What does having the wrong mats add to the game?
Do you want to split up blue and rare mats as well? Have you ever played a game with these crafting mechanisms? EVERY TIME you end up with one being the most valuable and all the other ones being next to useless. I understand that limitations have to be made in a crafting system but I think there are other ways than simply colouring every material for the sake of "diversity".

You already start tying even more dependencies to this system by changing it for selffound mode which means it can't be very stable in the first place.

You're asking for a World of Warcraft "currency" type system. That would kill the gem market completely, making all gems essentially self found as there would be no way to sell or trade them. That's why a separate crafting materials screen would be brought up. That's a lot of squares for crafting materials you will be getting in addition to your normal item based inventory slots. And you still have your stash as well, so this really isn't a negative, but more of a positive, especially considering the current stack sizes available.


Just because these items wouldnt take up inventory space it wouldnt mean they couldn't be tradable, gold is tradable and it also isn't using up your inventory space. The problem is that crafting mats serve no purpose in the inventory. You will never look at the materials and say "wow this is a nice powder" you will never activate it or use it or compare it to something else. They offer absolutely nothing to the inventory and that's why you have to wonder why they are even in there in the first place.

Even if you add a seperate inventory to crafting mats, what would this add? Now you have this screen filled with colourful things you wont every touch or look at anyways. You might as well add an additional inventory for gold, because these 2 are treated almost the same way.

If the item had a set number of "upgrade" slots avaialble, one would have to make a decision on which stat(s) to upgrade. And to aid the economic front and the overall longevity of the game, these items, once upgraded, would become Bound to Account, as are any items created with BoA crafting materials. This allows the player to find their own items and upgrade them, or continue to buy those items and upgrade those with the caveat that once they do perform an upgrade they'll need to find something themselves or purchase something better. On the latter point there is no difference between the upgrade path preventing you from finding upgrades and buying uber gear preventing you from finding upgrades now. In both cases it is a player choice. But in the absence of actually finding better gear, you get the option of improving yours slightly so you at least have some path to progression.


Ok, now you have the limitation via upgrade slots. Now you have to show the player which upgrade gives the most offence/defence bonus otherwise you force players to check online every time they want to make an upgrade at the mystic. The player then chooses the most beneficial upgrade is done with it... Where is the exciting stuff? Where is the randomness? Where is the surprise? I understand that it would be awesome to make upgrades on your own but why does it have to be the most boring and linear way possible?

The mystic has MUCH more potential than being a simple stat !@#$% that binds items to accounts.

Because the new "rune" is attached to the item itself, the player has a choice to make: Take that item specifically because of the rune and potentially lose out elsewhere, or use what they want for their chosen build. With enough diversity in such exotic runes, players will have choices even within a specific build depending on how they wish to play that build. Nothing says any single build has to have X and only X rune in order to be effective when there are diversified choices.


That's just the usual excitement talking. You hear "new runes" and "new abilities" and instantly go "jay, thats good".

The idea of adding new runes via items is ok, but a proper implementation is next to impossible. The runes will either be gimmicky or to strong. And because you tie it to an itemslot you actually decrease the choices the player has. Why wouldnt you just give the player a new ability right away? Or why not make the item increase an ability so that the player can still chose which rune he wants to use? The problem IS that there are to many options for runes already. Adding even more options, even though it sounds supercool in the short term, would not add anything cool in the long term unless they decide to add new runes on a regular basis.
You can go and ask players if they even know all of the runes thy currently have. I'm certain 90% haven't even tried every rune and I'm certain 100% can't remember what every rune does.
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100 Night Elf Druid
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Posts: 295
Amazing ideas and great creativity! I love the variation your Ideas would create in the game. They would add depth and replayability, which are currently lacking.

Blizzard, swallow your pride, admit this man has better ideas than you ever did and implement them immediately!
Edited by Izariel#1711 on 7/22/2013 7:00 AM PDT
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The best and most constructive comments and recommendations I have read so far. Create a new game, followers will be millions. Diablo III team, please take it seriously and change the game on these recommendations. What a genius!
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OP is really THE man !!! Great topic and ideas; especially the one regarding legendaries with skillrunes!! Lets bring this game where it belongs :)
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