[WC3] Map Pool Change

General Discussion
Hey there,

As it was stated, there is an upcoming patch this month (since there was no further information denying it yet). Nobody knows what to expect in detail.

I just have a certain demand regarding the current mappool, especially for 4on4 RT.
Some of the "newer" used maps like (8)Deathknell and (8)Deadlands but also (8)DragonFalls never felt that fun as some of the classics like (8)Friends and (8)GoldRush. Would really appreciate a little map pool update to bring in again epic long battles (goldrush)or fast paced team fights (friends).
Definitely agree with your map chocies there. Deadlands, deathknell and dragonfalls arent that great. I'd really like to see golems in the mist gone too: its an old map thats been in the map pool since vanilla day 1 and it's not that great of a map.
Hmm though I also don't really like those 3 mentioned maps, I always hate forced tech maps like Full Scale Assault (thank god we don't have slalom anymore). I'd have to say my personal favorite map is Square Market
yea golems in the mist is the most simple map out there and its what comes first to my mind when i think about 4on4 rt. i dont dislike it, but its maybe one of the maps to replace besides the ones i mentioned.

Square market is currently in the pool and i like it too. i have been playing over all the years, of course with breaks here and there but i think maps like friends, goldrush or even northshire or that 10 players map havent been there for quite some time.

personally, my 1 vote always goes for these big maps like slalom (currently in use) or hurricane islands etc. as they always feel like a big lame&gamble map or favor certain races for base killing.
should definitely NOT replace golems in the mist, its one of the best maps. Should just add all the 4s maps and let people thumb down some more maps.
Me and Drayen have been asking for a new map pool change for 10 years straight lawl. Particularly for 4v4 and have posted, in detail, suggestions and reasoning's for changes. Only once in 12 years have we gotten a change and that was August 2012. We got one in 2015 but they reverted it back.

People mostly play 4v4 on bnet and I'm pretty darn sure of that. Casuals like me just click search 4v4 and have been doing this for years with no complaints, other than the stale maps. Once again, here are my suggestions and HOPEFULLY, Classico can comment on maybe us getting another change, since 1 map pool change in 12 years is a little disheartening : (

Old 4v4 maps I want 100% back: Friends, Gold Rush, Northshire, Ferelas, and Crossroads. No question about it, I want the first 3 back. I miss them immensely. They are very balanced and fun to do cool strats on. If any changes happen, I want these maps back questionably.

Current maps I want to stay 100%: market square and twilight ruins. I love these maps and I think most players do as well. Would be okay with Murgoal'Oasis and battlegrounds staying as well.

Current 4v4 maps I want to see go 100%: Deathknell, Deadlands and Last Man Standing. I like big maps but Last Man Standing is just ridiculous; people thumbs down it more than any other map probably. Deathknell is just oddly designed and not very balanced. Deadlands just has annoying mana draining creeps everywhere and the map is an oddball.

Current 4v4 maps I could do without or have gotten stale: Cherryville, dragonfalls, deadlock, Golems in the mist (been in pool since 2003ish). These maps are just stale and have been here forever.

Thank you. Hopefully we can get some insight that these changes possibly can happen soon in the near future. We have waited FOR-EVA!!!!!!
Remove delay
03/13/2017 12:08 AMPosted by Flamechamp
Me and Drayen have been asking for a new map pool change for 10 years straight lawl. Particularly for 4v4 and have posted, in detail, suggestions and reasoning's for changes. Only once in 12 years have we gotten a change and that was August 2012. We got one in 2015 but they reverted it back.

People mostly play 4v4 on bnet and I'm pretty darn sure of that. Casuals like me just click search 4v4 and have been doing this for years with no complaints, other than the stale maps. Once again, here are my suggestions and HOPEFULLY, Classico can comment on maybe us getting another change, since 1 map pool change in 12 years is a little disheartening : (

Old 4v4 maps I want 100% back: Friends, Gold Rush, Northshire, Ferelas, and Crossroads. No question about it, I want the first 3 back. I miss them immensely. They are very balanced and fun to do cool strats on. If any changes happen, I want these maps back questionably.

Current maps I want to stay 100%: market square and twilight ruins. I love these maps and I think most players do as well. Would be okay with Murgoal'Oasis and battlegrounds staying as well.

Current 4v4 maps I want to see go 100%: Deathknell, Deadlands and Last Man Standing. I like big maps but Last Man Standing is just ridiculous; people thumbs down it more than any other map probably. Deathknell is just oddly designed and not very balanced. Deadlands just has annoying mana draining creeps everywhere and the map is an oddball.

Current 4v4 maps I could do without or have gotten stale: Cherryville, dragonfalls, deadlock, Golems in the mist (been in pool since 2003ish). These maps are just stale and have been here forever.

Thank you. Hopefully we can get some insight that these changes possibly can happen soon in the near future. We have waited FOR-EVA!!!!!!


well that sums everything up much better than i did.

100% agree with the map choices. its really about time now and i dont think it takes "much" or any effort at all (if you are submitting a noticeable patch now anyway, this should be done as well)
Agreed with flamechamp's maps, although I personally like deadlock, I think it's only downside is the lack of bigger creep and items, never understood why middle are just green camps.
I'd be fine with "deadlock" staying if the other changes happen for the most part, but yes, that is my main complaint with that map: its boring. Its very balanced, but it could use stronger creeps/better items.

Its just we've been very patient. Classico and the team basically implied we were getting changes this time last year. I can understand the server upgrade maintenance's but come on. Even the sub par 40% players who always get mad and blame their allies want a new map pool change. They, and all of us, would appreciate it immensely.
Can only cross our fingers for the patch that's supposed to come Q1 2017 which should be anytime now. I can't wait for better searchtimes personally.
i got mass effect andromeda coming soon and the last book of the witcher series coming today. I personally can wait like a week or two but after that classico and the community got business to discuss
bump for the legacy team. The 4v4rt community as spoken
Twilight Ruins is by far my favorite map though.

I would be extremely happy just getting Friends and Gold Rush back. IMO, the best 4s maps are those that encourage skirmishes as well as something I like to call "breakdown time". Breakdown time is where the massive endgame battle has happened, but it had a partial stalemate aspect to it. This gives time for mass expansions, base trades, players with only a level 8 hero left, and other assorted crazy stuff.

The worst maps are the ones that promote: Build giant army and funnel it into a choke point. Full Scale Assault and Last Man Standing are the worst violators here.

my tl;dr above can be distilled to "circular maps good, east v west maps bad".
03/15/2017 02:29 PMPosted by Wotep
Twilight Ruins is by far my favorite map though.

I would be extremely happy just getting Friends and Gold Rush back. IMO, the best 4s maps are those that encourage skirmishes as well as something I like to call "breakdown time". Breakdown time is where the massive endgame battle has happened, but it had a partial stalemate aspect to it. This gives time for mass expansions, base trades, players with only a level 8 hero left, and other assorted crazy stuff.

The worst maps are the ones that promote: Build giant army and funnel it into a choke point. Full Scale Assault and Last Man Standing are the worst violators here.

my tl;dr above can be distilled to "circular maps good, east v west maps bad".


I never looked at it like this before, circular good and east west bad. Does this still apply to north south maps like deadlands, that is a very vertical map with its spawn locations for players?
Completly agree Wotep, what makes a game fun is the potential for player interaction. The worst offender from what you describe is most likely slalom... truly a garbage map, I prefered even hurricane isles over it.

And yeah, twilight ruins is among the top maps of 4v4. I don't HATE fullscale but i have to agree it's not that great either.

I'm thinking about creating some 4v4 maps, although I don't know if we'll ever able to add brand new maps to the map pool. I still think it could be a nice idea to open up map contests to add some new blood. Hell, I'd be willing to test the 4v4 maps that are submitted.
03/15/2017 04:31 PMPosted by Flamechamp
03/15/2017 02:29 PMPosted by Wotep
Twilight Ruins is by far my favorite map though.

I would be extremely happy just getting Friends and Gold Rush back. IMO, the best 4s maps are those that encourage skirmishes as well as something I like to call "breakdown time". Breakdown time is where the massive endgame battle has happened, but it had a partial stalemate aspect to it. This gives time for mass expansions, base trades, players with only a level 8 hero left, and other assorted crazy stuff.

The worst maps are the ones that promote: Build giant army and funnel it into a choke point. Full Scale Assault and Last Man Standing are the worst violators here.

my tl;dr above can be distilled to "circular maps good, east v west maps bad".


I never looked at it like this before, circular good and east west bad. Does this still apply to north south maps like deadlands, that is a very vertical map with its spawn locations for players?


Yes east/west is effectively the same as north/south.

Deadlands is unique map that I don't have a problem with. I rank it 'average' in the current map list. The thing that saves it from being a North v South converge-fest is that the placement of the expansions creates a lot of crossflow. There are legit decisions to be made of whether to sweep xpos or push hard at a main base end. The layout is actually rather good and unique actually, the main problem are the terrible mana burn creeps that suck the fun out of it. It's really not a big problem overall, but keeps it at the mid-tier of current maps.

One day I'm bored I will do a write up of my opinions of every map in the current pool.
I agree that deadlands isn't too bad design wise, it's just the creeps... Although I guess I've never been too much of a fan of expansions being so vulnerable.
bump
omg possibly wc3 patch this week! https://www.reddit.com/r/WC3/comments/60hqyd/patch_128_this_week_content_what_to_expect_why/

Please classico, please, heed our 4v4 map suggestion advice. We have been very vocal about 4v4 input for years. Most of us here are just casuals but the map pool is very important.

TLDR: please keep the 4v4 maps market square and twilight ruins no matter what, and bring back the old ladder 4v4 maps gold rush, friends, and northshire no matter what! And definitely get rid of last man standing and deathknell, since they are pretty boring and not balanced at all.

Thank you!

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