BOTS VS BLIZZARD DEVELOPMENT TEAM

General Discussion
06/06/2018 09:03 AMPosted by blizzfanboy
I feel like some day in the future we will have technology to plug people into a software world where they can instantly download skills and knowledge. Then everything will go wrong and machines will take over, but the ONE will save us.

Skynet as in the movie , right? What was the name of that movie?
06/07/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Olivie
06/06/2018 09:03 AMPosted by blizzfanboy
I feel like some day in the future we will have technology to plug people into a software world where they can instantly download skills and knowledge. Then everything will go wrong and machines will take over, but the ONE will save us.

Skynet as in the movie , right? What was the name of that movie?
The terminator 1984
06/07/2018 07:38 AMPosted by Ubermech
06/07/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Olivie
...
Skynet as in the movie , right? What was the name of that movie?
The terminator 1984

Ahh right , epic movie!
06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
Yes they should manually review.
Do you really think they have the staff or the time to manually review everything that may look suspicious?

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
They are not currently instant-banning based on those anti-cheat methods, so why use them?
They are absolutely instant-banning using the anti-cheat methods in place. Many of the bots that were broken at the end of last year remain so. That wouldn't be possible if they were letting their foot off the gas. If bans are declining it's because botters realize they will be banned instantly for certain botting software and are trying something else. You can do some research on it and you will find the discussions on botting forums that refer to instant bans for using certain botting clients and modified game clients.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
using behavior based mechanisms would easily identify those patterns very fast
There are ways around this for botters. The patterns can easily be randomized to avoid this kind of detection. The idea that all bots operate exactly alike is absurd. They are customizable and can be programmed to change their run patterns, randomize time between games, utilize cool down periods, etc.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
but they need to broaden the scope of the ban, and ban every account/key/ip linked to the user
Given your post count, I would be able to logically deduce that you have not been around for many of the ban waves. You've missed out on botters complaining that ALL of their accounts, including "mule accounts" that "couldn't have possibly been associated with botting", and keys have been banned in the waves. The scope is already pretty broad and there are no changes needed in that regard. Keys and IP addresses are disposable for botters, so banning the ones they catch is a great idea, but that will have very little impact on them in the long run.

Every reset there is a massive ban wave either right before it or right after it. Watch in the next couple of weeks and you'll see the botters here in full force appealing their bans. It should reassure you that they are diligently working on the issue and the methods in place are working as effectively as they can in an ever-changing botting landscape. Your ideas would be a great supplement to their battle against bots, but it should not become the sole method of bot detection and banning.

As I said before, I'm sure they are already using analysis of behaviors and patterns to help them confirm what the digital information is telling them about the botters. Removing the automated methods and relying solely on manual review of suspicious activities would immediately open the door for botters to run unimpeded and, while they would catch some of them, many would likely fly under the radar as a result. Then you have the legitimate players that are mistakenly identified as botting based on any of the criteria you think qualifies. Considering that on USESCL there are a maximum of 15 to 20 bots running at any given time, resources would be better utilized focusing on them rather than casting a wide net looking again for what they have already found. That is where your theory falls apart.
06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
Yes they should manually review.
Do you really think they have the staff or the time to manually review everything that may look suspicious?
If they stopped spending time on pointless anti-cheats that don't work, they will have tons of free time to manual review any egregious flags, thresholds would obviously be adjustable and set by them, but very easy to implement and act on. Could even outsource it for cheaper than the devs to create (or attempt) a new anti-cheat that actually works.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
They are not currently instant-banning based on those anti-cheat methods, so why use them?
They are absolutely instant-banning using the anti-cheat methods in place. Many of the bots that were broken at the end of last year remain so. That wouldn't be possible if they were letting their foot off the gas. If bans are declining it's because botters realize they will be banned instantly for certain botting software and are trying something else. You can do some research on it and you will find the discussions on botting forums that refer to instant bans for using certain botting clients and modified game clients.

You are incorrect. The same bots that were "broken" took very minor modifications to get up and running. The anti-cheat does nothing actively, besides fill your local appdata folder full of !@#$ (should send invoices to blizzard for SSD degradation). It may be flagging in the background, which they review, then ban usually around this time (reset times). Last time they used this code it failed miserably. See the mass MAC ban then subsequent unban of everyone.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
using behavior based mechanisms would easily identify those patterns very fast
There are ways around this for botters. The patterns can easily be randomized to avoid this kind of detection. The idea that all bots operate exactly alike is absurd. They are customizable and can be programmed to change their run patterns, randomize time between games, utilize cool down periods, etc.

You are right, they are completely customizable, but it will still have a pattern. If its humanized enough, rest breaks, not 24/7 etc, well then that bot wont be as damaging to the community now as it will generate the similar resources as a real player -- not a terrible problem. But 90% of botters are copy/pasting code and do run exact methods over and over.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
but they need to broaden the scope of the ban, and ban every account/key/ip linked to the user
Given your post count, I would be able to logically deduce that you have not been around for many of the ban waves. You've missed out on botters complaining that ALL of their accounts, including "mule accounts" that "couldn't have possibly been associated with botting", and keys have been banned in the waves. The scope is already pretty broad and there are no changes needed in that regard. Keys and IP addresses are disposable for botters, so banning the ones they catch is a great idea, but that will have very little impact on them in the long run.

I have been around a very long time, but I have nothing to prove to you. Keys and IPs are not disposable, that costs $, unless you can give me a list of 500 working proxies and 500 cdkeys i can test right now, you're incorrect again.


Every reset there is a massive ban wave either right before it or right after it. Watch in the next couple of weeks and you'll see the botters here in full force appealing their bans. It should reassure you that they are diligently working on the issue and the methods in place are working as effectively as they can in an ever-changing botting landscape. Your ideas would be a great supplement to their battle against bots, but it should not become the sole method of bot detection and banning.

A simple ban will change nothing, the risk vs reward is worth getting banned every season, purchasing private IPs and a new legit cdkey and selling bot finds through third parties for $.
They need to actively ban, in force, on a continual basis. They are not doing that, but have every ability to do so.


As I said before, I'm sure they are already using analysis of behaviors and patterns to help them confirm what the digital information is telling them about the botters. Removing the automated methods and relying solely on manual review of suspicious activities would immediately open the door for botters to run unimpeded and, while they would catch some of them, many would likely fly under the radar as a result. Then you have the legitimate players that are mistakenly identified as botting based on any of the criteria you think qualifies. Considering that on USESCL there are a maximum of 15 to 20 bots running at any given time, resources would be better utilized focusing on them rather than casting a wide net looking again for what they have already found. That is where your theory falls apart.

Pattern recognition would be automated, thresholds set by them, and then those would go up for manual review, same system they have in place now, but different detection method.
On ESCL you claim 15-20 bots max? Sure, per bot user. I know quite a few running multiple hundreds.
To understand how to catch a botter, you need to be a botter ;)
06/05/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Unforgotten
NEW BAN WAVE - Blizzard Dev Team - DIABLO 2 - D2BS BOT + KOL BOT

Coders are now changing out the .dll files to trick the AntiCheat function, We need a common sense solution to a timeless problem. It's with great hopes that this topic will be seen & shared to the right folks at Blizzard. Those that continue to break the Terms of Service should think twice about the up coming season. I'm willing to donate in upwards of $1,000 USD for a Fix All Solution for this Classic game. The implementation of captcha or the like of other programmable edits to verify human authenticity in this game would be a night and day difference.

Sincerely,
The United Diablo Players of the World

PS - I encourage all players to share this on Social Media, i.e. Twitter/Facebook
No Bots, No Dupes, No Spam = The Best Season in 20 years!


I think another update and ban wave would be plenty, it did the job for the first 2-3 months of this ladder, why not do it again. Some CD Key bans vs account bans would be very effective as well.
Like they've been doing the last few years they will implement their new anti-bot techniques on the implementation of the reset. Hopefully they are getting better at plugging up the holes and they keep the bots off OUR ladder season even longer.
06/05/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Unforgotten
NEW BAN WAVE - Blizzard Dev Team - DIABLO 2 - D2BS BOT + KOL BOT

Coders are now changing out the .dll files to trick the AntiCheat function, We need a common sense solution to a timeless problem. It's with great hopes that this topic will be seen & shared to the right folks at Blizzard. Those that continue to break the Terms of Service should think twice about the up coming season. I'm willing to donate in upwards of $1,000 USD for a Fix All Solution for this Classic game. The implementation of captcha or the like of other programmable edits to verify human authenticity in this game would be a night and day difference.

Sincerely,
The United Diablo Players of the World

PS - I encourage all players to share this on Social Media, i.e. Twitter/Facebook
No Bots, No Dupes, No Spam = The Best Season in 20 years!

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/443556864027000833/454436208202874890/d3.png
Play the game single player OFFLINE. Making a bot is a stupid !@# waste of time. BUY a game and then make a program to PLAY the game for you? LOLOLOL-- lack of brain cells for the pure absurdity of the concept.
Some people dont understand how coding works.

Every game Which run from a local pc and connect to a server BUT the full Game is in the local pc can someone make it works automated.
This cannot change, also dont forget who keep this game alive. Ofc its not the bots....
anyway :) reset is coming so get ready :D
dude, of course if botters pvp against blizzard, blizzard will win

blizzard /invul (づ ᴖ ɜ ᴖ)づ

bots /top gear

blizzard attack (; ・_・)―――――――C<―_-)
bot ground by one hit (́一◞౪◟一‵)

blizzard won (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧
Lol there has been dupes since season reset, sojs arent duped but there is a way where dclone can be spawned easier, which only so few people know, and botters are plenty.

Sorry to say, but this ladder went from gfg to !@#$ real fast once the bots were back.... And I know some who botted from day2.
06/07/2018 09:59 PMPosted by Theorize
Play the game single player OFFLINE. Making a bot is a stupid !@# waste of time. BUY a game and then make a program to PLAY the game for you? LOLOLOL-- lack of brain cells for the pure absurdity of the concept.
People like those who just bot to bot are not that big problem. The problem are people who are making cash out of it, they are running hundreds of those and ruin economy so badly.
I hope Blizzard gonna ban those bots for at least first 30 days of the season so we could enjoy the game for more than 1 or 2 weeks.
06/10/2018 11:30 AMPosted by CésaRz
People like those who just bot to bot are not that big problem.


Totally agreed. Blizzard don't need to end all botting forever, that would be near impossible. They need a targeted approach to take out those who are running these at scale.

Unfortunately I think the cost needed to target the appropriate culprits (without a lot of legit players ending up as collateral) would simply just cost too much.
Theres an easy fix. Its called a report button and hire a couple people to enforce the rules. We do pay them for this service, is that too much to ask?
OP made an interesting point for a simple fix.

Add a CAPTCHA when creating games.

Is it inconvenient? Yes...

Will it create a serious difficulty on creating bot software? Most definitely.
06/07/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Doctor422
06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
Yes they should manually review.
Do you really think they have the staff or the time to manually review everything that may look suspicious?
If they stopped spending time on pointless anti-cheats that don't work, they will have tons of free time to manual review any egregious flags, thresholds would obviously be adjustable and set by them, but very easy to implement and act on. Could even outsource it for cheaper than the devs to create (or attempt) a new anti-cheat that actually works.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
They are not currently instant-banning based on those anti-cheat methods, so why use them?
They are absolutely instant-banning using the anti-cheat methods in place. Many of the bots that were broken at the end of last year remain so. That wouldn't be possible if they were letting their foot off the gas. If bans are declining it's because botters realize they will be banned instantly for certain botting software and are trying something else. You can do some research on it and you will find the discussions on botting forums that refer to instant bans for using certain botting clients and modified game clients.

You are incorrect. The same bots that were "broken" took very minor modifications to get up and running. The anti-cheat does nothing actively, besides fill your local appdata folder full of !@#$ (should send invoices to blizzard for SSD degradation). It may be flagging in the background, which they review, then ban usually around this time (reset times). Last time they used this code it failed miserably. See the mass MAC ban then subsequent unban of everyone.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
using behavior based mechanisms would easily identify those patterns very fast
There are ways around this for botters. The patterns can easily be randomized to avoid this kind of detection. The idea that all bots operate exactly alike is absurd. They are customizable and can be programmed to change their run patterns, randomize time between games, utilize cool down periods, etc.

You are right, they are completely customizable, but it will still have a pattern. If its humanized enough, rest breaks, not 24/7 etc, well then that bot wont be as damaging to the community now as it will generate the similar resources as a real player -- not a terrible problem. But 90% of botters are copy/pasting code and do run exact methods over and over.

06/07/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Doctor422
but they need to broaden the scope of the ban, and ban every account/key/ip linked to the user
Given your post count, I would be able to logically deduce that you have not been around for many of the ban waves. You've missed out on botters complaining that ALL of their accounts, including "mule accounts" that "couldn't have possibly been associated with botting", and keys have been banned in the waves. The scope is already pretty broad and there are no changes needed in that regard. Keys and IP addresses are disposable for botters, so banning the ones they catch is a great idea, but that will have very little impact on them in the long run.

I have been around a very long time, but I have nothing to prove to you. Keys and IPs are not disposable, that costs $, unless you can give me a list of 500 working proxies and 500 cdkeys i can test right now, you're incorrect again.


Every reset there is a massive ban wave either right before it or right after it. Watch in the next couple of weeks and you'll see the botters here in full force appealing their bans. It should reassure you that they are diligently working on the issue and the methods in place are working as effectively as they can in an ever-changing botting landscape. Your ideas would be a great supplement to their battle against bots, but it should not become the sole method of bot detection and banning.

A simple ban will change nothing, the risk vs reward is worth getting banned every season, purchasing private IPs and a new legit cdkey and selling bot finds through third parties for $.
They need to actively ban, in force, on a continual basis. They are not doing that, but have every ability to do so.


As I said before, I'm sure they are already using analysis of behaviors and patterns to help them confirm what the digital information is telling them about the botters. Removing the automated methods and relying solely on manual review of suspicious activities would immediately open the door for botters to run unimpeded and, while they would catch some of them, many would likely fly under the radar as a result. Then you have the legitimate players that are mistakenly identified as botting based on any of the criteria you think qualifies. Considering that on USESCL there are a maximum of 15 to 20 bots running at any given time, resources would be better utilized focusing on them rather than casting a wide net looking again for what they have already found. That is where your theory falls apart.

Pattern recognition would be automated, thresholds set by them, and then those would go up for manual review, same system they have in place now, but different detection method.
On ESCL you claim 15-20 bots max? Sure, per bot user. I know quite a few running multiple hundreds.
To understand how to catch a botter, you need to be a botter ;)


do not give them ideas on how to destroy diablo 2 its already the lowest most unplayable state it has ever been...

they will push stupid patches that kill the game just stop this nonsense
Simple solution:
Add a captcha request and/or physical 2-step authentication to every new game!

(... I'm kidding. Please don't do this.)
06/15/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Bill
Simple solution:
Add a captcha request and/or physical 2-step authentication to every new game!

(... I'm kidding. Please don't do this.)


dear bill gates, thanks for comming to blizzard forums

a captcha would be nice, but, what do you think about blind people that cant complete captchas?

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum