1.31 Changes WC3 Wishlist

General Discussion
Here's my wishlist for 1.31

Human

-Paladin: Devotion aura buffed to 2/3.5/5 armor.

-Reduce mechanical critter cost to 30 gold.

-Reduce Rifleman lumber cost to 25.

-Increase DragonHawks, Gryphon Riders and Knights HP by 50.

-Reduce Animal War Training cost to 75 gold and 125 lumber. Now grants 100 HP.

Orc

-Shadow Hunter: Hex duration reduced to 10/20/30 seconds on units. Duration on heroes is unchanged.

-Make Spiked Barricades a one time upgrade only that's actually good please.

Undead:

-Give Statues 550 HP back, but keep the Destroyer HP unchanged.

-Death Knight: Reduce Animate Dead mana cost to 150 and increase duration by 10 seconds.

-Increase Sacrificial Skull Area of Effect.

-Acolyte movement speed reduced to 230. Keep the armor and HP buffs.

-Reduce Cripple mana cost to 125.

Night Elf:

-Reduce huntresses damage by 1 (back to 1.29 value).

-Keeper of the Grove: Increase Entangle mana cost to 90 at all levels.

-Keeper of the Grove (II): Buff Thorns to 15/25/35% damage.

Neutral:

-Firelord: Buff Volcano. Please make it good.

-Pit Lord: Reduced Cleave AoE to 225.

-Pit Lord (II): Increase Rain of Fire damage to 30/35/40 per wave and reduce mana cost to 80.
i m agree with everything, it's a very wise wishlist
+5 more shamans for clans
+ fix tour times atm there stays only the date of the tour not the time @ least on northrend
+ fix clan member list on website ( its only possible to see the first page)
+ fix default main channel players are still spread over 25 or more channels its like every one gets his own channel it was wasted before but even more since channel can have up to 255 ppl in
Hello, let me just say I'm so happy for the attention this game is getting. I like the balance attempts that have been made, even if some are off the mark. I have a couple suggestions that might help.

1. Move Ghoul Frenzy to tier 2. Teching to tier 3 for a tier 1 unit upgrade doesn't make much sense, especially since Aboms become available and ghouls are like paper. Ghouls are a required unit for undead, but that doesn't mean they should have piss-poor stats. Alternatively buff ghouls hp or armor. Fiends are taken every game by default because the alternative is the worst unit in the game. Previous buffs to vamp aura are pointless since these units simply can't do much and already have cannibalize and blight.

2. Reduce the cooldown on hippogryph rider mount/dismount. There needs to be some cooldown on this ability so it isn't easily abusable, but the cooldown is far too long considering dismounting hippogryphs is so important to playing them viably.

3. Remove graveyard requirement on Temple of the Damned. Other races don't have this on their caster buildings.

4. consider reducing the activation delay slightly on stasis trap to make it more useful.

5. Consider nerfing/rebalancing disables across the board. The duration on heroes seems about right mostly (except lvl 3 hex), but on units the durations are mostly absurdly long. Unfortunately, these abilities are often times the only way to kill units in this game, but they don't need to last for nearly a minute in some cases and force breakers, walkers, and destroyers into too many games. Polymorph in particular was awkwardly balanced by not affecting heroes and costing 220 mana. I don't think the importance of these types of abilities was really fully understood in the days when this game was being developed, nor the importance of mana. Other games from this era that have remained active such as dota and WoW quickly discovered how overpowering disables are.

6. Consider going the other direction with ensnare. Nerfing the cooldown helps balance the fact it doesn't cost mana, and longer duration allows for fewer raiders, particularly for creeping air units. It also forces more engagements and smarter use of the ability. Also, the research cost of ensnare should be more than 50 gold for such a powerful ability.
were u guys actually able to update?bc i wasnt :|
09/16/2018 03:22 AMPosted by Xelfire
2. Reduce the cooldown on hippogryph rider mount/dismount. There needs to be some cooldown on this ability so it isn't easily abusable, but the cooldown is far too long considering dismounting hippogryphs is so important to playing them viably.

3. Remove graveyard requirement on Temple of the Damned. Other races don't have this on their caster buildings.


I agree with both of these. Not sure about the other changes you suggested, Ghoul Frenzy on T2 would be insanely strong, especially against those poor archers.
My best wish would be an enhanced IA for cpu, for all 4 races.

And maybe optimize pathfinding ?
Some ideas are good but too many buffs for humans for sure.
Wasn't cripple mana cost already reduced to 125 in 1.30? I like all of your ideas. I just think undead needs some major buffs to feel competitive. They're weak in all aspects, and the only way they are able to 'compete' is because of Lich+DK pickoffs. The buffs to acolytes and meat wagons helps a lot.

I really like your idea for sacrificial skull, it could use improvement. Another option would be to give it multiple charges and allow it to stack, similar to dust.

I think haunted gold mine should cost less lumber. Necropolis is realistically only useful for TPs, but it's hard to reduce the cost much further without lowering its stats and jeopardizing the main base, even though it is mostly just a big farm.

You mentioned reducing the lumber cost on rifles to 25, but I think 40 lumber for a fiend is pretty steep as well. How about reducing the lumber cost of blacksmith though?

I really do think a lot of the undead struggles comes down to the weakness of ghouls though. Frenzy is a good upgrade, but it comes out too late for an extremely weak and fragile unit. It can definitely be moved to T2 with its graveyard requirement and an increased research time, along with possibly nerfs to its cost and effectiveness. It would be easier to just give ghouls a flat buff, but I do feel they need some help.

A couple other ideas I had on undead would be to give gargoyles unholy strength/armor upgrades instead of creature and to allow more than one ghoul to cannibalize a corpse.
The duration of entangle on heros was too short before the buff, and now its too long,
with a good timing, archers and huntress can hit with like 2-4 volleys before the hero can move again, that is way too good and there is also a chance, that talons and an alchemist with acid bomb is around. There must be a fair duration, and its definitely not three full seconds, prolly 0,5 seconds more than it was before.
here is mine, make it so that everyone can invite (arranged team games)

fix chat channels
Mine are:

GENERAL

- Make it so that everyone can invite (arranged team games)

- Fix chat channels

ITEMS

- Fix the items that give aura. khadgar's pipe of insight is way too strong while the Lion Horn of Stormwind is incredible weak.

- Remove cristal ball. At least remove it as a ¨top¨ drop.

- At 12pm put 2 boots of speed on shop.

NEUTRAL

- Buff volcano and tornado.

HUMAN
- Instead of increasing armor pro devotion aura, maybe you could give it something a little more interesting. Like +movement speed, or +magic resistance (not much)

- Increase the hu casters mana regeneration. With their current status you are virtually forced to play AM (at least 2nd) if you want to go casters. This limits the heroes you can choice.

- If you want to make hu a rece that can play 1 base, some buff to their units in general would be good. Otherwise I would like militia nerf reverted, so humans can expand.

ORC
- Nerf windwalk a little. At least windwalk lvl 2. Someone suggested that the cooldown should be applied after you go off windwalk, but maybe that is too much.

- Divide reinforce defences into 2 upgrades. One cheaper for burrows and the other more expensive (or maybe available on t3) for towers.

- Make the tauren research faster/cheaper.

UD

- Keep working on necros. Im not sure what would be good. But they fell underwhelming

- Put a cap on the nova damage. Its way too OP vs air units that clump

NE

- Keep working on MGs. Im not sure what would be good. But they fell underwhelming

-----------------

That being said, i think is too early to complain about balance. 1.30 has not even hit Netease yet. But some thing are a problem for a long time already (lion horn, khadgar's pipe, cristal ball, AT, chat channels)
A couple more things I wanted to say about Undead basic design and why they suck:

1. Gold mine + Necropolis total cost is way too high. Haunting a gold mine alone costs more than it should considering it has no defense, exposed workers, and can't produce workers or be teleported to. The necropolis is also a nearly useless building, lacking any of the benefits that other races receive, such as entangle+attack+uproot, call to arms, or simply returning gold, even from long distance.

2. Acolytes are useless units lacking the ability to harvest lumber, burrow, call to arms, scout while harvesting, or detonate. There is no reason to have more than 5 in your base as all they can do is stand around, but as soon as you get attacked they must be pulled off gold (other races would never do this), and you only have those 5, offering limited repairing and can't be resupplied while teching. Despite this Acolytes still cost the same or more than other workers.

3. Ziggurats are expensive, and upgraded ziggurats for defending an expansion is far too costly to be worth considering when compared to other races towers, and are a much bigger loss if destroyed.

Some possible solutions:

- Change the necropolis frost attack to be a researched ability from tier 1, rather than being a default tier 2 ability. This would give some value to building necropolis at an expansion, and replaces the required nerubian tower at the start (required, again, because acolytes are potatoes).

- Revert the buffs to acolytes, but allow shades to still function as workers. After all, the goldmine is haunted!

- Reduce the cost of acolytes or give them a useful purpose beyond standing around. Maybe they can speed up production times, have some sort of basic dispel (lacking for undead until T3), be combined or transformed into something besides a shade, Transform back into an acolyte from a shade, or be able to restore units at the cost of gold and lumber (something also completely lacking for undead until statues).

- Allow acolytes to teleport from one necropolis to another, like a warp gate with a cooldown. This would allow them to abandon a failed expansion by unsummoning and traveling to safety.
Here is my wish list.

- REMASTER
- NO HACKERS
- REMOVE FIXED PING
- SUPPORT THAT CARES
I think the thread creator has some nice points there. I wonder if making devotion give armor and HP regeneration would be good, instead of increasing the armor. This way, the paladin's role as a healer would fit nicely.
Some more things:
1) Make the Bloodmage's syphon mana work on allied invulnerable units.
2) Flamestrike can be countered by maneuvering, perhaps it should cast a little bit faster, or cost less.
3) Cannon towers still lack a bit in terms of strength, despite being the latest technologically available tower in the game. Perhaps they shouldn't miss, and not have a minimal targeting range. Or build faster. All kinds of possibilities here :)
4) Orb of darkness and Crystal ball are considered weak, especially the second item. Perhaps they should have better passive bonuses.
5) Periapt of Vitality should cost considerably less gold to be useful.
6) The Lion Horn of Stormwind item should synchronize with Devotion aura, level 1.
As an Undead player myself and Dreadlord/necro lover here are my suggestions for UD overall.

Vampiric aura might provide some lifesteal for ranged units as well (15/20/25%?) in order to make it somewhat valiable. Number of course could be tweaked accordingly to avoid balance issues. This would combat the regeneration from unholy aura, provide something to work with statues etc.

Sleep could also make unit immune for 2/3/4 seconds so unit isn't instantly woken up.

Acolytes are fine in my opinion, good scouting, fast but they need it. Snipe 1/2 and there is already huge damage into UD economy.

Ghouls need something to buff. Frenzy t2 seems most resonable. If too strong, reduce the speed and give some health instead.

Way to fix necros is more problematic one. Spells themselves are quite powerful, but in order to make them valiable, how about give skeletal mages dispel, the same one as the troll merc from the camps? Give each mage, lets say 80 mana max, make dispel cost 50. So when mage is risen, he can dispel once, and if it survives long enough, a second dispel. The reason why I suggest this is that destroyers themselves are pretty.... uneasy to use and come very late in the game in comparison to other races dispel capabilities.
09/18/2018 10:02 AMPosted by ThorinDT
As an Undead player myself and Dreadlord/necro lover here are my suggestions for UD overall.

Vampiric aura might provide some lifesteal for ranged units as well (15/20/25%?) in order to make it somewhat valiable. Number of course could be tweaked accordingly to avoid balance issues. This would combat the regeneration from unholy aura, provide something to work with statues etc.

Sleep could also make unit immune for 2/3/4 seconds so unit isn't instantly woken up.

Acolytes are fine in my opinion, good scouting, fast but they need it. Snipe 1/2 and there is already huge damage into UD economy.

Ghouls need something to buff. Frenzy t2 seems most resonable. If too strong, reduce the speed and give some health instead.

Way to fix necros is more problematic one. Spells themselves are quite powerful, but in order to make them valiable, how about give skeletal mages dispel, the same one as the troll merc from the camps? Give each mage, lets say 80 mana max, make dispel cost 50. So when mage is risen, he can dispel once, and if it survives long enough, a second dispel. The reason why I suggest this is that destroyers themselves are pretty.... uneasy to use and come very late in the game in comparison to other races dispel capabilities.


I think vamp aura affecting ranged units for half amount is realistic. Most units are ranged, and also get more attacks in. The base lifesteal of the ability would probably need to be reduced, but it would be much more viable.

Giving skeletal mages dispel seems like a great idea, and gives value to the very expensive skeletal mastery upgrade. It also gives necromancer skeletons purpose over rod of necromancy. The skeletal mages would likely need a health nerf to compensate. I think unholy frenzy and cripple could use improvement as well, mainly in their mana cost. Being able to dispel frenzy from your units would be nice, and it can give some fuel to destroyers later.
UD has the strongest units and heroes. In the current meta, the only race that can compite 1 base vs 1 base against UD is ORC. And even ORC tends to expand.

UD has to have a down side: that is their economy. If expanding for UD is as easy as the other races, then the other races should have units and heroes as strong as the UD have.

I think 1.30 was a nice middle road compromise. Some UD units got nerf but they buff their expanding capabilities. Granted, it is not nearly as easy to expand as UD like a HU, but HU units are much weaker.

About the vamp aura, I think if the steal life is applied, then the reverse should be applied as well for the thorns aura :D
09/18/2018 12:17 PMPosted by TheGreenOne
UD has the strongest units and heroes. In the current meta, the only race that can compite 1 base vs 1 base against UD is ORC. And even ORC tends to expand.

UD has to have a down side: that is their economy. If expanding for UD is as easy as the other races, then the other races should have units and heroes as strong as the UD have.

I think 1.30 was a nice middle road compromise. Some UD units got nerf but they buff their expanding capabilities. Granted, it is not nearly as easy to expand as UD like a HU, but HU units are much weaker.

About the vamp aura, I think if the steal life is applied, then the reverse should be applied as well for the thorns aura :D


They don't exactly have the best units, but they do synergize the best. Statues for infinite coils, and focus firing with orb, and destros upgrade, high fiend dmg, etc. Everything else about the race sorta sucks. The problem is, they're totally locked in, and when their core units got nerfed it just meant that they have even less options available and must make the same strat more efficient, because there is no other viable strat. I would've liked to see the nerfs to their core comp handled differently, since just lowering stats won't work well. For instance, preventing absorb mana on destroyers from being cast on mechanical units (ie other statues), would basically kill their timing attack and ruin destroyers, yet still keep them useful in their intended purpose. Adding a dispel to skeletal mages as suggested above would also alleviate the heavy reliance on destroyers.

Lowering frost nova single target damage while keeping the aoe nova would help to break the synergy with lich+dk. Keep in mind too, that this combo performs disproportionately well on battle.net due to latency. DK is seemingly irreplaceable, I don't know what to do about him, but it doesn't help that the other UD heroes are terrible. Maybe it would be possible to save units with a buffed CL impale, but DK coil and aura just can't be given up. Other races have spirit link, staves, scroll, early healing mechanics, etc. but Undead's healing, saving, nuking, killing, mobility, fighting, and harassing are all located on one guy.

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