Paragon 2.0 question

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I'm curious, is the current plan to have Paragon 2.0 experience required to level up be exponential as it is now, or more linear, (e.g., not using actual numbers, but right now going level 20 to 21 requires 1 mil experience and going 90 to 91 requires 10 mil experience)?


- The third change is that we've removed the innate bonuses granted by Paragon levels, and players will now earn Paragon Points every time they level up. These points can then be spent to boost up various stats in four different categories: Core Stats, Offensive, Defensive, and Adventure.

- What category a Paragon Point can be spent in will be determined by what Paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in "Core Stat," Paragon level 2 gives you a point to in "Offensive," Paragon level 3 gives you a point to spend in "Defensive," and Paragon level 4 gives you a point to spend in "Utility" (or "Adventure"). Each Paragon level past that follows the same pattern.



UGH!

Why even bother making the changes then?

So much for looking forward to customization.
09/21/2013 01:08 AMPosted by JangoJohnson
What category a Paragon Point can be spent in will be determined by what Paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in "Core Stat," Paragon level 2 gives you a point to in "Offensive," Paragon level 3 gives you a point to spend in "Defensive," and Paragon level 4 gives you a point to spend in "Utility" (or "Adventure"). Each Paragon level past that follows the same pattern.


so i can't choose !@#$? this sux!

if i can't spend my points like i want, why are there points in the first place? its just the same old "d3 chooses everyrhing for you" %^-* all over again^^

hopefully they consider changing this!


Next up: An announcement that after further consideration, Loot 2.0 will really just be a release of 100 more legendaries, 99 of which are garbage.
09/20/2013 06:49 PMPosted by Lylirra
- What category a Paragon Point can be spent in will be determined by what Paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in "Core Stat," Paragon level 2 gives you a point to in "Offensive," Paragon level 3 gives you a point to spend in "Defensive," and Paragon level 4 gives you a point to spend in "Utility" (or "Adventure"). Each Paragon level past that follows the same pattern.


The first time I heard about Paragon Level 2.0 I was very happy, between all the changes coming out in the next expansion, this was what excited me most, to be able to distribute my PP the way I want, and be able to offset the weaknesses of my characters with PP, this is a great ideia. This was what I thought!

But now I hear this, please do not do that, do not take the our freedom to distribute PP, doing this you will continue giving players the false sense of freedom, the same false sense of freedom that we have with the skills, in which we can only use 2 or 3 different builds.

Let the player chose how they want to play, let us create our "unique" character, please do not ruin a great idea, that Pragon Level 2.0 can be.

obs: sorry for my English, it is not my first language.
So the way I see this is that you are now forcing us to put paragon points where you dictate?

What category a Paragon Point can be spent in will be determined by what Paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in "Core Stat," Paragon level 2 gives you a point to in "Offensive," Paragon level 3 gives you a point to spend in "Defensive," and Paragon level 4 gives you a point to spend in "Utility" (or "Adventure"). Each Paragon level past that follows the same pattern.

Little communistic isn't it? If I earn the level, I should choose to put them where I please, not where you think or dictate where I should put them.
People, before you post think a little bit:

If there're no caps or guided expenditure of Paragon Points, EVERYONE will spend their points at EXACTLY the same stats.

It happens with loot right now - Weapons with CDam are the only ones considered, why? Because CDam is soooo much better then any other option.

Trifecta Gloves are the best gloves, why? Because EVERYONE wants CC, CDam, IAS (with high base stat) because that's what nets the highest DPS increase possible.

I do understand that many people would go for some Adventure Stats (like myself, Pickup Radius+MS :P) But once you cover those, you're ABSOLUTELY SURE gonna dumb all your points into Offensive Stats, simply because that's what makes you feel "awesomerrrrr!!!" pewpewing stuff.

The easiest path will always be to gear to cover defensive sides (since defensive gear is normally cheaper than offensive gear) and then stack as much as possible Offensive Paragon Stats, since it's free.

There MUST be a cap and a Guided expenditure for the system to actually work. But I do not believe their current suggestion is good.

Here's my suggestion from 2 pages ago:

PPts = Paragon Points aka what you get each Paragon Level to spend on the 4 cats.

SUGGESTION 1 >>> Make 2 groups of stats:

Group 1 >> Main Stats / Adventure Stats - Allow people to put as much points as they want here until the caps (For Adventure) at whatever level they want.
Since Adventure doesn't directly correlate to spreadsheet DPS and you already will allow Main Stats to grow to infinity, I don't see a problem with this and you allow some customization.

Group 2 >> Defensive Stats / Offensive Stats - Allow people to put points here every odd/even Plvl. What I mean is, you can put 1 PPt into either Defensive or Offensive than you need to put 1 PPt into Group 1 than you can put another point in this group so on so forth.
Offensive / Defensive stats in my opinion are the most relevant stats that directly impact performance and builds viability, so the player would need to make a impactful choice here, choosing more EHP or more offensive power.

What this all sums up is something like this: You gain Paragon1 and put 1 PPt into an offensive stat. Than you MUST put your Paragon 2 PPt into either a Main Stat or Adventure Stat. At Paragon 3 and 4 you could choose again to put those 2 PPts into Adventure (since Group1 is not locked by levels) than at paragon 5 you choose to put 1 PPt into Offensive again and so on.

SUGGESTION 2 >>> Make thresholds to unlock caps into each category of stats.

First you need to put caps into place, let's say for example:

At Paragon 0 you can only put PPts until the cap, let's say up to 10 PPts in CC (up to 2%crit), up to 10 PPts in CDam (up to 15%, I guess?), up to 10 PPts in IAS ( 2% IAS).
So until Paragon 10, the player could go all out and put all 10 points directly into CC, giving him straight 2% CC.

To go past that cap, he would then need to spend, let's say for example, 10 PPts into the Adventure Category.

So, in that same example where our Paragon 10 player spent 10 points into CC at the Offensive Group, now at Paragon 11 needs to put his next points into, for example, Pickup Radius if he wishes to unlock the cap of CC to keep increasing it further later on.

Let's say he spent his next 10 PPts, at Paragon 20, at Pickup Radius 5 and Move Speed 5.

He spent 10 PPts into Adventure Category, which unlocks his CC to advance to 20 PPts spent, but he's not yet at Pickup Radius or Move Speed cap, so he could still place points here, without putting points into another category since he didn't reach the cap yet.

I know this might get it a bit more confusing for people to get used, but this is what I believe would net the best rate of control/distribution of PPts while also allowing customization.
"If there're no caps or guided expenditure of Paragon Points, EVERYONE will spend their points at EXACTLY the same stats."

This would only be true if everyone reached ridiculous paragon levels. The vast, vast majority of people will be nowhere near paragon 800. Most people are going to have to make decisions in deciding what kind of character they want (all mf versus all survivability). To take away that choice through round robin and limits is bad. I'd personally make all stats and all paragon limitless. If someone wants 1 million health, fine. He'll be terrible in every other way. Also, it'll take twenty years to get to that point. But it's His character, that's his choice.

And if one stat is that good, nerf it, make diminishing returns on it, Or (better) make unlimited monster power levels. It won't be a problem though. If you stacked all crit damage and put nothing into health, you would be awful and would die.
"If there're no caps or guided expenditure of Paragon Points, EVERYONE will spend their points at EXACTLY the same stats."

This would only be true if everyone reached ridiculous paragon levels. The vast, vast majority of people will be nowhere near paragon 800. Most people are going to have to make decisions in deciding what kind of character they want (all mf versus all survivability). To take away that choice through round robin and limits is bad. I'd personally make all stats and all paragon limitless. If someone wants 1 million health, fine. He'll be terrible in every other way. Also, it'll take twenty years to get to that point. But it's His character, that's his choice.

And if one stat is that good, nerf it, make diminishing returns on it, Or (better) make unlimited monster power levels. It won't be a problem though. If you stacked all crit damage and put nothing into health, you would be awful and would die.


I understand your point BUT that's not what happens today and it's proof people won't follow your logic.

The majority of players will look at internet guides made by min-max streamers, theorycrafters and alike, and will follow those builds. Always happened and will still happen.

Myself, I'll also put points into Pickup Radius and MS because I find those much more appealing at first, till some point, then move on to other things like Offensive, Stats, Defensive.

Also, keep in mind that MF currently is a 17th Stat, not being present into any category which implies it'll be passively gained much alike it's today.

People are quick to forget that they didn't want gear swapping to be used and thus the changes won't bring that back. We probably gonna be in the same status quo as of today for Paragon 2.0 with regards to MF.
One thing I don't like is the fact that paragon levels affect all characters of the account.

The same thing as gold and artisans linked to the account : If I want to make an absolute self loot character, who doesn't get ANY kind of help from ANYWHERE, I can't because I get paragon points from other characters.

What Blizzard offers to people who want to make absolute self loot characters ?
Hi.
A little suggestion: add a paragon 2.0 bonus points for people who played the game before paragon levels exist. I would be more fair for those players that spend a lot of time playing at level 60 without gaining xp.

A little question: How it will work for people who will not buy the extension ? their paragon will start at level 60 or they will have a level 70 too ?
Does anyone know if you have a character who reaches 60 after 2.0, do you automatically get to assign as many paragon points to it as you have available? If not, it sounds like it'd make sense to have as many characters to 60 before the update so they all receive the paragon points.
09/20/2013 07:50 PMPosted by CriticalMass
- What category a Paragon Point can be spent in will be determined by what Paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in "Core Stat," Paragon level 2 gives you a point to in "Offensive," Paragon level 3 gives you a point to spend in "Defensive," and Paragon level 4 gives you a point to spend in "Utility" (or "Adventure"). Each Paragon level past that follows the same pattern.


I feel like this sounds awful.

Customization to me would mean if I have 100 paragon points I don't want them to be 25 offense, 25 defense, 25 core, 25 adventure. I want 100 points to spend how I want.

Also, with the current paragon system, (if I remember correctly) you get 300 main stat, 200 vit, 100 of each of the other 2 stats for a total of 700 core stats when you hit paragon 100. With the new paragon system, 1 paragon point= 5 of a core stat, 100 paragon levels is only going to be 500 of core stats. Why is that? (and this seems even worse with the predetermined categories points will go into).


Yeeeeeeeeeeah I agree with this one.

It just seems pointless if they are already pre-determined.
Is the paragon infinite system due to the fact that you guys finally realize that this game is lacking content and jay wilson created a gigantic heap of u know wut
Paragon level 100 today would equate to:

700 total stats
300 MF/GF

That's equal to Paragon 140 counting only the stats, and (on top of my head) Paragon level 200 or more if that includes MF+GF. With the current leveling progression, the required experience needed to be gained just to match the total point bonus (I'm neglecting other bonuses like IAS,CC,CD, etc) is more than what 10 Paragon 100 characters today. I recall that with 10 Paragon 100s, you'd be like Paragon level 194 (which is something like 105B experience gained) while following the current experience curve lol :D I'm guessing they will change the experience curve to compensate the negative psychological effect this will bring to casual players. We all know that there are so much more players (casual) who haven't reached Paragon 100 yet :D
Hello Lylirra, thanks for the updates.

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I wanted to clarify what's happening with the Magic Find / Gold Find that comes with Paragon levels;

- Is it staying the same or is it being removed (requiring paragon points)?
- Are there any changes with the caps?
- Will MF/GF still appear as affixes on items?

Cheers~
Feedback?

Yah, you're terribly nerfing us with this new paragon system - your items better be fricken amazing to justify this.

I do not want to grind out another 2 level 100 paragon toons just to be on equal footing to what my single paragon 100 has in this new system, that's just retarded. Think about toons that aren't even paragon 100 right now, say paragon 75 - they're in for such a rude awakening-nerfbat when this thing launches.

-3 main stat -2 vit -2 off stat -3 MF/GF per level for +5/4 .5% utility/ect values per level, with caps on everything but main stat after paragon 800?!..explain!
Sounds like more than a downward spiral it sounds like a big flop i am not excited about it at all just more bs

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