Cop-out Answer: Tyrael is Mortal, not Human.

Lore and Story
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When Tyrael became mortal, his body began to form in his fall. He had a measure of control over this process, and as his goals were to ultimately benefit humanity, taking the form of a human was most ideal. After all, he would need to walk among humans and nephalem and fit in. It made sense to blend in.


That doesn't make sense. Humans are the spawn of angels and demons, no? Where did Tyrael get the demon DNA to pull off such a transformation?


He didn't (nor would he) need human DNA as it's not a factor. He chose the guise of a human but he's still not actually a human, he's rather a mortal angel that has taken on the human aesthetic.
11/14/2013 12:40 PMPosted by ChangBooster
Obi-Wan's death


Umm, Spoiler alert!?


Not at all. In this instance Nevalistis is likening Obi's death to Tyrael's choice to become mortal. It's actually a pretty great analogy!
On the diablo lore, the prime evil's slaying is attributed to the whole group of the playable heroes? as In they did an organized group effort to achieve the task? Just wondered because I cant recall many signs on the game story dialogues that point towards this spontaneous nephalem alliances on both d2 and d3.

If I were to ask a sanctuary villager or Tyrael who saved them, would he say yeah! it was thanks to the barb,wd,wiz,monk and dh group, or would he talk about 1 individual?

The question makes sense? This topic leaves me thinking a lot, if they formed this group how did they get along? they met all at the same time? did they always worked together harmoniously? did they keep in touch after their epic deeds?


A villager would respond by saying the group of heroes saved the world, if they were informed enough to know about these events. In the intro videos for all the classes and in some of the class stories, the heroes are drawn to New Tristram because of the falling star. I'm sure they met up and decided that staying together was the best bet in defeating the demonic horde, especially if Deckard Cain gave them some advice. After all, Cain was around with the adventures from D2 and remembered the teamwork from those heroes.

Oh so Tyrael gained the current form he's using as he fell from heaven? For some reason, I completely assumed he always looked like that but never took his hood off before - which lead me to believe that all the angels had "human" forms underneath their armor.

Now that Tyrael is mortal, does he still have any powers? Or, as we see in the opening cinematic for RoS, is he just a weak pathetic under geared noob now? If he really doesn't have any powers now that he de-winged, then that would make him essentially weaker than any man - right? since "mankind" are all Nephalem in sanctuary... even if their powers are mostly gone.


Tyrael is mortal but his essence is still angelic. He still has his sword, El'druin, which comes with its own powers and he's still stronger than the regular adventurer. He's also had eternity to study battle tactics and whatnot while fighting the demons, which puts him above the rest. Compared to the nephalem heroes, however, he's not as strong as they are.

While all Nephalem are human, not all humans are Nephalem. That means some have stronger powers than others, and many have no powers at all since something simply didn't trigger when they were born.

11/14/2013 01:08 PMPosted by Logos
When Tyrael became mortal, his body began to form in his fall. He had a measure of control over this process, and as his goals were to ultimately benefit humanity, taking the form of a human was most ideal. After all, he would need to walk among humans and nephalem and fit in. It made sense to blend in.


That doesn't make sense. Humans are the spawn of angels and demons, no? Where did Tyrael get the demon DNA to pull off such a transformation?


He's still an angel at his core. He gave up his immortality, which is tied to his angelic essence, but he's still an angel, albeit a mortal one. Technically he could have chosen from a variety of different forms to take, but, as Nevalistis is saying, taking the appearance of a human made the most sense.
Providence, please either remove the spoilers from your post or provide an actual spoiler warning. :P

C'mon dude..
I have an issue with the Freewill issue that the Diablo lore is taking...

Angels and Demons do not have freewill only Nephalem do..
Only Nephalem have the power of choice and Angels/Demons are guided by Fate/their aspect/good or evil etc?

This flies in the face of things like Tyreal choosing to fall from Heaven or Lilith and Inarius stealing the world stone and creating Sanctuary. These all seem like acts of freewill
The issue with this is that the Angiris Council (and indeed, all angels) adhere to their laws so vehemently that there was no room for Tyrael to act outside of them without cutting his ties. The Book of Tyrael touches on this a bit, particularly on how while they have great power in this devotion, it also consistently limits their ability to act.

[...]

By losing it, he instead gained the ability to help the nephalem directly as an adviser and guide - something he simply couldn't have done by staying in the heavens as an angel.

(emphasis added)

I'm calling shenanigans. Tyrael acted outside the truce before taking on mortal form, which was actually why he and Imperius had it out in the second cinematic of Diablo III. Tyrael justified his actions by saying he was "bringing justice," which means he (being the very aspect thereof) can decide what is and is not just. In the Reaper of Souls cinematic where Tyrael's sword passes through Malthael because his cause is "just," so we can assume "justice" is a bit of a nebulous concept and based largely on perspective. That affords Tyrael quite a bit of leeway when deciding what he can and cannot do, based on his own personal perspective.

Saying that he has to uphold the laws of the High Heavens as part of his intrinsic nature doesn't hold water. Obviously there have been times when justice demanded acting against those laws as Imperius saw them, meaning either that justice can decide for itself what is and is not just (perspective) or that Tryael and the angels are inclined to act within the laws of the High Heavens, but are still physically able to act against them.
The way I look at it he is a Fallen Angel. Not human but in the form of human. And I have evidence to back my claim.

Izual. Izual is also fallen but choose to fall into hell and now looks more demonic then any angel I've seen.

Tyrael. Tyrael choose to fall to earth, as he sided with the Humans. His choice formed him.

All the evidence you need ^
11/14/2013 02:45 PMPosted by CheehC
Angels and Demons do not have freewill only Nephalem do..


They do have free will. Izual did, Tyrael did, Inarius did. The Evils all turn on each other due to their personal agenda's that they choose.
11/14/2013 03:56 PMPosted by Veracruz
Angels and Demons do not have freewill only Nephalem do..


They do have free will. Izual did, Tyrael did, Inarius did. The Evils all turn on each other due to their personal agenda's that they choose.


Exactly - but the lore written into RoS is that Nephalem can chose to be Evil or good. While Angles can only choose good. and Demons can only choose evil
11/14/2013 12:40 PMPosted by ChangBooster
Obi-Wan's death


Umm, Spoiler alert!?


lol
11/14/2013 04:26 PMPosted by Trickshaw


They do have free will. Izual did, Tyrael did, Inarius did. The Evils all turn on each other due to their personal agenda's that they choose.


Inarius went insane, because of his rebellion against the natural order of things he, literally, lost his mind. Tyrael didn't have free will; he was the aspect of Justice. All he did was follow, to the letter, everything an aspect of Justice would do. The Evils turn on each other exactly because it is their nature to do so.

You're equating free will with choice. While they are related concepts they aren't unilaterally interchangeable. Tyrael had to uphold Justice. He had many options afforded to him to follow that pursuit. Many "choices". That doesn't mean he had free will. The Evils are predisposed to deceive, murder and corrupt in order to become more powerful. Their pursuit of power is their "burden". They have many avenues afforded to them in order to accomplish this goal. Many "choices". This does not mean they have free will.

Inarius defied the order of the Heavens. His mind became twisted and arrogant. That's what happens when an angel defies his purpose.

Choice != Free Will but Free Will does = Choice.

This is a philosophical argument that has, does and will continue to carry on long after you and I are dead and forgotten.


Should we add into the philosophical mix the idea that free will/choice is an illusion and everything is guided by causality in a 'hard determinist' point of view. :p
free will
noun
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

Angels and Demons are definitely capable of free will. Tyrael renounced his immortality, Malthael went rogue, the members of Angiris council voted for and against the Nephalem.

On a separate note, Izual didn't ever "choose to fall into hell", he was corrupted by the Prime Evil's against his will.

The issue with this is that the Angiris Council (and indeed, all angels) adhere to their laws so vehemently that there was no room for Tyrael to act outside of them without cutting his ties. The Book of Tyrael touches on this a bit, particularly on how while they have great power in this devotion, it also consistently limits their ability to act.

Also remember that there was once a truce struck between the High Heavens and Hells that neither side would interfere with the matters of mortals. While the Prime Evils have had no qualms about breaking this agreement (as you might expect), the Angiris Council has continued to uphold their end. Heaven's complete and utter devotion to order is both a strength and a flaw. Tyrael realized this, and decided it was best he would no longer be governed by this nature.


So if I hear you correctly, you're saying that Tyreal being angel simply gives him an innate drive to uphold laws that he may or may not agree with, such that getting rid of his angel-ness would give him more control over his decisions and actions. If that is the case, then this would in fact make a great deal of sense.

Tyrael's strength was, indeed, formidable. But as has been proven in the past, even at his most powerful, he could not take on Diablo himself. There are plenty of powerful beings in Sanctuary (the nephalem heroes being some of them), and the power Tyrael had wasn't serving his purpose. By losing it, he instead gained the ability to help the nephalem directly as an adviser and guide - something he simply couldn't have done by staying in the heavens as an angel.

Think of it a bit like the relationship between Obi-Wan and Luke Skywalker. On the surface, Obi-Wan's death might have seemed meaningless. However, it allowed him to guide Luke in a way he wouldn't have been able to otherwise. There's a parallel there (even if it's not exactly the same).


IIRC Tyreal has gone against the council a few times before. I think the destruction of the worldstone and him trying to prevent baals release was something that the council still forbade against. I could be wrong though.

Whats more important is that in actuality Tyreal didn't gain any more ability to be an adviser or a guide than previously. He was guiding us through all of Act 4 and bits and pieces of Act 5 in D2, instructing us and asking us to do certain things. While he does do SOMETHING in D3, he is still more or less an adviser when he's needed and nothing more (When you are running to fight Diablo, he stops and lets us do the work)
Providence, please either remove the spoilers from your post or provide an actual spoiler warning. :P

C'mon dude..
sorry!! editing now!
So Angels can't break any of their own laws, but they can just take themselves outside of the law?
Then they aren't really laws are they?
11/14/2013 03:01 PMPosted by FirePenguin
I'm calling shenanigans. Tyrael acted outside the truce before taking on mortal form, which was actually why he and Imperius had it out in the second cinematic of Diablo III.


Tyrael's disobedience is certainly why he and Imperius butted heads. And if Tyrael continued that path up in the High Heavens, it's unlikely that Imperius would have continued to allow Tyrael to continue his shenanigans.

Tyrael avoided one conflict so he could fully focus on another. The rest of the Angiris Council wasn't willing to intervene, but Tyrael was and is. Not only does he not need to be an angel to do so, but staying an angel would have continued to inhibit his goals. It was certainly a risk, but one he felt was worth taking.

11/14/2013 02:45 PMPosted by CheehC
Only Nephalem have the power of choice and Angels/Demons are guided by Fate/their aspect/good or evil etc?


This gets into a very philosophical discussion that leaps outside the realm of Diablo lore, really. Angels and demons both have the ability to make choice, and we've seen plenty of examples in the past of those that have (most notably Inarius and Lilith). Tyrael's observation is on the sheer amount of devotion his brethren have and how much it blinds them to what may seem, at least to him, the obvious "right" thing to do.

We can actually draw a reasonable comparison here to Kormac. He was following blind faith that had been drilled into him by a corrupt order, and he knew nothing else. To really grow as an individual and pursue his own goals, he had to break away from that order. Staying a Templar and following the beliefs and tenets he was taught simply stopped fitting into his life. One could say the same happened to Tyrael, albeit on a much grander scale.
Tyrael's disobedience is certainly why he and Imperius butted heads. And if Tyrael continued that path up in the High Heavens, it's unlikely that Imperius would have continued to allow Tyrael to continue his shenanigans.

Tyrael avoided one conflict so he could fully focus on another. The rest of the Angiris Council wasn't willing to intervene, but Tyrael was and is. Not only does he not need to be an angel to do so, but staying an angel would have continued to inhibit his goals. It was certainly a risk, but one he felt was worth taking.


How would being an angel inhibit his goals exactly?

Tyreal is already disobedient which means he exhibits some free will, so being an angel isn't crippling his ability to do things on his own.

Being angel gives him many nifty perks like being immortal, being substantially stronger, and being able to fly.

In essence, reverting from being angel to mortal in order to help humans is a lot like a rich person burning all of their money so they can help poor people.
11/14/2013 01:08 PMPosted by Logos
That doesn't make sense. Humans are the spawn of angels and demons, no? Where did Tyrael get the demon DNA to pull off such a transformation?


You want everything to have Medicholorians, don't you? Cellular and molecular structure of angels/demons/nephalem don't matter - narrative does.

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