An Unbiased Look at BOA Legendaries

General Discussion
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@Logos
I agree, i wouldn't want to se the game balanced around trading, thats what we have now i guess.. I don't want trading or an AH being the most efficient way to acquire items, but i would still like to have the ability to trade "the super awesome" axe i found with my DH for something i can actually use. Don't you think its possible designing the game so that slaying monster becomes the primary way to acquire items but still having the possibility to trade?
I too want an awesome self-found experience, as that's how I've played since launch. And I play all classes, so the "uber item I can't use" scenario doesn't apply to me. BUT, axing all legendary trade is not the answer; it's too restrictive, Draconian even (colourful wording, but you get the point). Especially for people who play with friends in different time zones. I have some friends in the US server, and I have my own set of characters over there just to play with them. But because of the 5/6/7 hour difference, it's not always possible for us to play at the exact same time. To say that I can't give or receive any legendaries from them because "too bad, they weren't in your game" is incredibly short-sighted by Blizzard.

Why not a system that allows trading between players that were already friends at the time of the drop? F-lists are already limited to 100 members, anyway, so no potential for massive "marketplace" f-lists there.
Good post OP, And you are right on the money about how this will play out. Being a wow vet myself, BOA dose not bother me at all. I do not play any game to be a merchant, But i know some people like that aspect of game play. I think for them they will need to adapt, Or stop playing all together.
11/14/2013 05:18 PMPosted by Wulff
Don't you think its possible designing the game so that slaying monster becomes the primary way to acquire items but still having the possibility to trade?


I hope so, to be honest. I think there's discussion to be had about the scrolls of unbinding mechanic. If you haven't seen it discussed in threads, it's where you can find BoA materials called scrolls of unbinding that make it so you can unbind an item at a crafter to allow it to be traded one time. I don't think you should be able to use scrolls on mystic enchanted items, but you should be able to trade to someone who can later use mystic on the items.

What I like about this approach in theory is that you can balance the gear distribution around flipping levers dictating how easy to trade the gear is, rather than drop rates. Therefore trade game will be balanced by messing with the trade mechanic, not the drops of people that just want to play solo.

Some suggest bind on clan, I could see that working if we all the exploits and kinks ironed out. Yes, I think a compromise is possible on this one, but it would be EASIER if the devs would talk to the community and tell them what their thoughts are, NO PR BS, so we can see stuff like, "What timeframe are they balancing loot distribution around between expansions? What are some models they've gathered for the rate at which people accrue loot? Are they making unfounded assumptions with those models due to lack of data?" Something to get us in their heads so we can see the realm of feasible solutions that work for them, then the details get ironed out as a community (assuming such constructive discussion is possible anymore).
11/14/2013 11:54 AMPosted by Zaxxon23
I blame the participation ribbon generation.
haha, I'm from the old school generation, And i like finding my own gear, As a matter of fact, Most any body i knew found their own gear. Heck in my day to buy gear or any game items would netted being labeled a CHEAT !!
FooOne that is an assumption that people like NightOwl have about trading and BoA. He said they can "rain items from the sky" with BoA. That somehow trading means unacceptable loot quality and quantity.

No trading and items raining from the sky doesn't sound much different than a consol game IMO. I like consol games, but I hardly ever play through them more than once or twice before I trade them in and buy a different game.


Maybe you're right, I can admit that.

There should be some restrictions on trading though if you allow it. I like that you can trade within the game session and I'd be ok with a 24 hour window or something where you can trade it. Or with BOE instead of BOA. But what I don't want is the AH-tycoon game recreated only in the form of trading instead of the AH.

I want to play the game to get my items not surf channels and games to try and find someone I can make a deal with.
FooOne that is an assumption that people like NightOwl have about trading and BoA. He said they can "rain items from the sky" with BoA. That somehow trading means unacceptable loot quality and quantity.

No trading and items raining from the sky doesn't sound much different than a consol game IMO. I like consol games, but I hardly ever play through them more than once or twice before I trade them in and buy a different game.


Maybe you're right, I can admit that.

There should be some restrictions on trading though if you allow it. I like that you can trade within the game session and I'd be ok with a 24 hour window or something where you can trade it. Or with BOE instead of BOA. But what I don't want is the AH-tycoon game recreated only in the form of trading instead of the AH.

I want to play the game to get my items not surf channels and games to try and find someone I can make a deal with.


With Loot 2.0 coming out I am failing to see why trading and playing the game are mutually exclusive things.

We can't have one while the other exists? It's either 24/7 trade channel or it's BoA gear? It just seems like such a simple, myopic outlook.
There has been a very long thread at Dfans discussing this - http://www.diablofans.com/topic/105623-travis-day-on-legendariesset-items-being-soulbound/

One idea was:
"An item can be traded to a friend/clan member but only if the guy was already a member of the clan/friend list when the item dropped".
I'm opposed to "clan"-based solutions, because, well.....not everyone will be in a clan. Most people do have friends, though....Why not substitute "clan" for "friends list"?
after reading the whole thread I have gone from unconvinced to: lets give BoA a try!

Most deciding Pro for me is that the devs can concentrate on loot quantity and quality without having to take into account a healthy economy.

It had been stated a lot by the devs when the first complains about loot emerged back in the days, that they had to design the availability of loot in respect to an open market, so a big factor why everyone is so disappointed in loot right now, actually is because of trading. Not the only factor, I am pretty sure loot 2.0 and trade would still be better than what we have right now, but I am willing to be omtimistic that loot 2.0 and BOA will be even better.

So I completely understand that a completely free market would alter design decisions (rate of upgrades) in way that hurts the game.

But maybe a middle ground can be found via restricting the market (friends list, scroll of unbind, unbind quest, etc.), which imo would make the game even better, and since the first step into that direction has already been taken (trade with party members that were present), I think we might actually see some more restricted trade options emerge when RoS ships.
Most deciding Pro for me is that the devs can concentrate on loot quantity and quality without having to take into account a healthy economy.


They can do this anyway.

Remember, the AH is going away which means trade is going to be going at a snails pace.

It had been stated a lot by the devs when the first complains about loot emerged back in the days, that they had to design the availability of loot in respect to an open market, so a big factor why everyone is so disappointed in loot right now, actually is because of trading.


Wrong.
It's because of a multitude of factors, including: MASS trading; marketplaces that were endorsed (even pushed) by Blizzard; marketplaces that were right there, in your face, inside the game - effortless trade; real money officially pushed into the game by Blizzard.
These are just a few.
11/14/2013 03:58 PMPosted by donk
Well played!

It wasn't a retort!

It was an example of my right to exercise my "freedoms". =P

Anyway, I just realized I don't actually have the energy to try to get people to elaborate on what their actual beef is.

For example...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10497760042?page=5#91

I was actually able to get some pretty useful information out of Baconan. It took a while and required a great deal of effort, but I was able to do it! =D

I will say this though, the best way to get someone to side with you is to remain calm and collected and try and get your point across clearly and without unnecessary vitriol.

If you want BoA gone, the best thing to do would be to make a good argument about why it should be gone.
11/14/2013 05:51 PMPosted by Maka
I'm opposed to "clan"-based solutions, because, well.....not everyone will be in a clan. Most people do have friends, though....Why not substitute "clan" for "friends list"?

How about clans + friends + anyone in the game you found it.
11/14/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Giggler
I'm opposed to "clan"-based solutions, because, well.....not everyone will be in a clan. Most people do have friends, though....Why not substitute "clan" for "friends list"?

How about clans + friends + anyone in the game you found it.

I would be completely fine with that.

But at that point I would still leave in a window. In this case, I would say 24 hours would be fair.

Remember, I am not against trade, I am against RMT trading. There's a pretty big difference.
11/14/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Giggler
I'm opposed to "clan"-based solutions, because, well.....not everyone will be in a clan. Most people do have friends, though....Why not substitute "clan" for "friends list"?

How about clans + friends + anyone in the game you found it.


The more people you include, the more inclined I'll be to agree with a given solution.
How can "not being able to sell items for real money" be a CON?

If anything that's the greatest positive that boa has going for it, and personally the only real reason I support boa at this point. Blizzard needs to shed all the flippers, ah tycoons, jsp hounds and everyone else who sees diablo 3 as something for profit. This is the only game I've ever played where rmt is celebrated and not made fun of. I hope in RoS when i see a guy with badass gear I know he earned it, and isn't some credit card b**** who is so fail that he has to use money to progress.

I'd love to have open trading but how do you do it without the rmt scum ruining things?
11/14/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Giggler
I'm opposed to "clan"-based solutions, because, well.....not everyone will be in a clan. Most people do have friends, though....Why not substitute "clan" for "friends list"?

How about clans + friends + anyone in the game you found it.


See at this point why even have BoA's lol
11/14/2013 06:07 PMPosted by DrothVader

How about clans + friends + anyone in the game you found it.

I would be completely fine with that.

But at that point I would still leave in a window. In this case, I would say 24 hours would be fair.

Remember, I am not against trade, I am against RMT trading. There's a pretty big difference.


Why do you care, though?

I mean, I'm against it, on principle alone. But if people wanna do it on 3rd party sites, spend their money on pixels, risk getting scammed, or be in BiS gear after 6 months and be bored, then more power to them. It doesn't affect me. And, since it's not endorsed by Blizzard (it's no longer the RHAM), it's also not their problem.

So...why care?
Pros
1. Allows players to acquire possible BIS gear by themselves


This has absolutely nothing to do with item binding. Drop rates can go up, there's no law of the universe that says higher drop rates equal bound items. The best example of higher drop rates is D2, and it didn't have any bound items.


THANK YOU!!!

So many of the pro BoA people list this as some great reason for BoA Legendary/Set items...I completely disagree.

Drop rates can be adjusted up and down, has NOTHING to do with BoA loot.

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