My thoughts on the sharagon system

General Discussion
The idea behind shared paragon levels was so that people wouldn't feel "forced" to play on a "main". There was a time on softcore where people felt "obligated" to only play their paragon 100 because of the magic find bonus which resulted in an influx of legendary drops. As someone who played their paragon 100 until it died, I can attest to the fact I did indeed get many more legendary drops from my high dps max magic find character, some times 10-15 in an hour depending on monster power which also increased magic find.

However, magic find is no longer a bonus at all from the paragon system. You must find items that have magic find that are suitable for you character of choice (main) or you must be able to have good enough items to play at a high enough difficulty to find legendaries (the cream of the crop). With "smart drops" and "character tailored items" that means your most efficient and geared character is likely your main because you must actually play it to get good enough gear to farm for legendaries effectively.

So what is the point of the sharagon system? Why couldn't it still be a character specific system with good bonuses that DIMINISH the more points you apply to a specific bonus? As in... the first point is 1% crit instead of .02. After 5 levels it reduces to .5, after 10 levels it reduced to .4 and so on... to get the same result as the end 50 points of 10% or maybe 15%. Instead, we have a static system.

I really like the idea of assigning my own bonuses. I really like the idea of having growth potential for each character I make. Since magic find is no longer a paragon issue, why is sharagon still a thing? Blizzard has gotten rid of the issue in a side step; remove magic find from the paragon system. Why can't we have unlimited levels to grind on each character? If balanced properly, the diminishing returns from each stat wouldn't forced you to play a single character. It would give you a chance to feel the power from each as they level up, and each would eventually hit a point where a grind (end game) is needed.

This thought process runs deeper than just "you shouldn't feel a need to have a main". Why? This is hardcore. You need to feel loss. You need to feel pain. Other wise, what is the point? There is no sting when you die now. You just remake, assign your lame points, and move on. By the time you hit max level, if you do, you farm. The items that drop now allow you to progress without much fear. Is there still a point? Are we going to go back to the only monster to fear is the dc monster? The only affix to fear on any character is poison explosion?

The systemic problem of the old paragon system was magic find. However, the new legendaries are character specific therefore to find the best magic finding items you must play a specific character. What was fixed? Buzz words? Has Blizzard turned into CNN or Fox News and just spun around ideas until people agreed and said "cool"?

How is this problem fixed?
12/20/2013 10:20 PMPosted by Kornkills
words


im guessing they removed magic find because the first, default thing you would do to any new upgrade picked up is remove one of the secondary stat things and replace it with magic find at the enchanter.
Because Blizzard has the foresight and forethought of a handicapped goldfish with downs syndrome.

In their world, if they say it's fixed, it's fixed.

Now please direct your attention to the "Deluxe" Digital Download Pre-Order page and submit your credit card info promptly.
the only reason i see it as a positive thing is it balances out blizzards haphazard nerfing of classes.

so they go along and nerf my favorite character and make it non-functional. well no problem, i do not lose paragon, ill just switch to whatever is OP this patch. rinse/repeat over time
12/20/2013 10:20 PMPosted by Kornkills
You must find items that have magic find that are suitable for you character of choice (main) or you must be able to have good enough items to play at a high enough difficulty to find legendaries (the cream of the crop).


You would think that wouldn't you, being a Diablo game and all..

But sadly Travis the head dev recently said they are doing away with MF

MF break downs

Blue = 100%
Yellow = 30%
Legendary/Set = 10%.

So if you have 300 in gear today, after 2.0 only 30 will work on legendary/set items.

edit : typo
12/21/2013 12:16 AMPosted by Rudski
You must find items that have magic find that are suitable for you character of choice (main) or you must be able to have good enough items to play at a high enough difficulty to find legendaries (the cream of the crop).


You would think that wouldn't you, being a Diablo game and all..

But sadly Travis the head dev recently said they are doing away with MF

MF break downs

Blue = 100%
Yellow = 30%
Legendary/Set = 10%.

So if you have 300 in gear today, after 2.0 only 30 will work on legendary/set items.

edit : typo


that is very lame.

i am just waiting for them to say "and we will actually play the game for you now so you dont have to bother with mashing buttons"
Here's the quote from Travis the head dev, the guy who calls the shots so to speak.

Hello folks,

12/16/2013 11:15 AMPosted by Travis Day
It's been a while, I've been off in Treasure Goblin land trying to get Reaper of Souls into shape. I wanted to stop by to give everyone some insight into what we are doing with Magic Find. For those of you who have heard me talk on the topic before you are probably already aware that MF is something we haven't been thrilled with for quite a while. The idea of MF is great "GET ALL THE THINGS!" the reality of it however is incredibly problematic and leads to more negative effects than positive ones. Getting the reward rate of the game to a place we are happy with is a difficult tuning process and when we try to add MF into the equation is creates a bit of a dilemma, one that was already pointed out in the thread, how do you balance the game to feel good for someone with 0% MF vs someone with 300% MF. Ultimately the answer to that question is "You can't" as such we have been trying to phase MF out of the game as much as possible.

In addition to changing exactly how MF interacts with finding items we also have dramatically reduced it's existence throughout the game. Having strong characters already equates into finding more items, both by virtue of killing things faster and also by virtue of playing in higher difficulties, which still do have rewards associated with them. Because of all of this we decided to not only remove MF as an affix from gear but also change exactly how MF interacts with different item qualities. MF will apply 100% of its benefit to Blue items, 30% to Yellow items, and 10% to Legendary and Set items. This means someone with 300% MF will end up finding roughly 30% more Legendary and Set items than someone with 0%. The design intent is to make things like Topaz gems in helmets or the Nagel Ring an option without them actually being mandatory.

I hope this helps clear the air and as the expansion moves further and further into its development cycle I'll start climbing out of this portal more frequently to answer questions.
12/21/2013 12:16 AMPosted by Rudski
Travis the head dev recently said


I have iterated the game. Pray I don't iterate it further.
12/21/2013 12:25 AMPosted by Rudski
MF will apply 100% of its benefit to Blue items, 30% to Yellow items, and 10% to Legendary and Set items. This means someone with 300% MF will end up finding roughly 30% more Legendary and Set items than someone with 0%. The design intent is to make things like Topaz gems in helmets or the Nagel Ring an option without them actually being mandatory.


I like.
So what is the point of the sharagon system? Why couldn't it still be a character specific system with good bonuses that DIMINISH the more points you apply to a specific bonus? As in... the first point is 1% crit instead of .02. After 5 levels it reduces to .5, after 10 levels it reduced to .4 and so on... to get the same result as the end 50 points of 10% or maybe 15%. Instead, we have a static system.

I really like the idea of assigning my own bonuses. I really like the idea of having growth potential for each character I make. Since magic find is no longer a paragon issue, why is sharagon still a thing? Blizzard has gotten rid of the issue in a side step; remove magic find from the paragon system. Why can't we have unlimited levels to grind on each character? If balanced properly, the diminishing returns from each stat wouldn't forced you to play a single character. It would give you a chance to feel the power from each as they level up, and each would eventually hit a point where a grind (end game) is needed.


While I can agree with diminishing returns, but I do not agree that the return for the first few points spent need to be higher. I say that each category should have a soft cap of 50 where the points spent give the same return that they do right now. Then you can using diminishing returns for going beyond that soft cap. I would drop that starting value by about 25%.

This thought process runs deeper than just "you shouldn't feel a need to have a main". Why? This is hardcore. You need to feel loss. You need to feel pain. Other wise, what is the point? There is no sting when you die now. You just remake, assign your lame points, and move on. By the time you hit max level, if you do, you farm. The items that drop now allow you to progress without much fear. Is there still a point? Are we going to go back to the only monster to fear is the dc monster? The only affix to fear on any character is poison explosion?

The systemic problem of the old paragon system was magic find. However, the new legendaries are character specific therefore to find the best magic finding items you must play a specific character. What was fixed? Buzz words? Has Blizzard turned into CNN or Fox News and just spun around ideas until people agreed and said "cool"?

How is this problem fixed?


Right now I do not feel like I have to stay playing the highest paragon level just to be powerful. I can be powerful playing any character that I want when I want. You do realize that those paragon points were for the character only then why bother playing anything else other than the highest paragon level character. You will not have the extra bonuses that go with the highest paragon level character. With it character only and let's say that you have one character that is paragon level 320. Then this means that you will not want to play anything else because you would be missing 80 points per category that could make a big difference in the overall power of the character.

Paragon leveling in the new system is more than just MF. It is about things like main stat, vitality, CC, CHD, IAS, etc... Now this list even includes things like % life, replenish life, etc... Those things would not be on any other character if they were not shared.

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