Lag!

Aus/NZ General Discussion
My lag has always been worse than others I play with. I was always happy if it was orange and I was willing to play anything up to 1,000. Lag has got worse in the last month and is often around 2,500. I get rubber banding, delayed but continuous play, the game freezes for up to two minutes (and then catches up, usually with me dead) and sometimes I get booted from the game.

Latency doesn't seem to be numerically correct. 500 should be half a second but I can click on a pickup and it can take 2 to 3 seconds to pickup the item.

I run a trace every day and I get significant packet loss (about 20%) and long ping times (average of about 250 but spiking to over 1,000. This is on almost every hop. This occurs within my ISP (Dodo) and within the Telstra network, which Dodo uses to reach the US. Dodo say that they have lots of Dodo customers reporting the same problem and they show no sign of doing anything about it. It seems I will need to change ISP as Dodo can not guarantee a level of service.

It would help, if Blizzard would set up a server in Australia. This would reduce a significant number of hops to reach the US.

I still play at almost any latency, if my friends drag me around (with many resurrections). I only play solo if my latency is below 1,000. I have no patience for idiots in the US, who want to penalize death: they should play with latency before they get a vote.
@ViKata
You need to let the pathping complete:
01/17/2014 02:01 AMPosted by ViKata
Computing statistics for 400 seconds...


Your Tracert is showing a nice stable 23-28ms to Sydney but a fairly slow hop across the pacific:

6 27 ms 27 ms 28 ms syd-sot-ken-bdr2-tg-0-0-0.tpgi.com.au [203.26.22.22]
7 209 ms 211 ms 210 ms te0-0-0-19.ccr21.lax04.atlas.cogentco.com [38.104.210.9]


There were significant slows over the Xmas period but these stopped for most people around the 8th Jan if you are still having issues you need to do some testing to see if your ISP has congestion problems on their links to the US.
I'd recommend running a few more tests to see if you can catch slows or timeouts as they happen, you can also try pingtest.net to West Coast US or something like pingplotter to test over a long period.
@ Poinard
Thanks for the advise, I'll give pingplotter a try and see how we go, I have used that in the past and found it to be a great little tool.

I have put in about 10 hours play since my last post on this issue and things are a bit better than last week. Once I have gathered some info I'll put it to the ISP and link my results here.

As for the pathping - lol at myself for attention to detail :)

Tracing route to 12.129.209.68 over a maximum of 30 hops

0 Cyber-XiphiqiX.fritz.box [192.168.7.47]
1 fritz.box [192.168.7.137]
2 10.20.20.187
3 nme-sot-dry-agr2-Te1-2.tpgi.com.au [203.12.162.253]
4 nme-sot-dry-crt2-Te0-3-0-14.tpgi.com.au [203.26.22.229]
5 syd-sot-ken-crt4-Te-2-0-0.tpgi.com.au [203.29.135.245]
6 syd-sot-ken-bdr2-tg-0-0-0.tpgi.com.au [203.26.22.22]
7 te0-0-0-19.ccr21.lax04.atlas.cogentco.com [38.104.210.9]
8 be2019.ccr21.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.88.9]
9 be2181.ccr23.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.41.114]
10 att.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.13.150]
11 cr2.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.129.234]
12 gar29.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.129.241]
13 12-122-254-238.attens.net [12.122.254.238]
14 mdf001c7613r0004-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net [12.129.193.250]
15 12.129.199.178
16 12.129.209.68

Computing statistics for 400 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 Cyber-XiphiqiX.fritz.box [192.168.7.47]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 0ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% fritz.box [192.168.7.137]
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 16ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 10.20.20.187
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 20ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% nme-sot-dry-agr2-Te1-2.tpgi.com.au [203.12.162.253]
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 23ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% nme-sot-dry-crt2-Te0-3-0-14.tpgi.com.au [203.26.22.229]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 27ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% syd-sot-ken-crt4-Te-2-0-0.tpgi.com.au [203.29.135.245]
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 28ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% syd-sot-ken-bdr2-tg-0-0-0.tpgi.com.au [203.26.22.22]
0/ 100 = 0% |
7 211ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% te0-0-0-19.ccr21.lax04.atlas.cogentco.com [38.104.210.9]
0/ 100 = 0% |
8 210ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% be2019.ccr21.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.88.9]
0/ 100 = 0% |
9 206ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% be2181.ccr23.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.41.114]
0/ 100 = 0% |
10 212ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% att.lax05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.13.150]
0/ 100 = 0% |
11 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% cr2.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.129.234]
0/ 100 = 0% |
12 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% gar29.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.129.241]
0/ 100 = 0% |
13 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 12-122-254-238.attens.net [12.122.254.238]
0/ 100 = 0% |
14 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% mdf001c7613r0004-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net [12.129.193.250]
0/ 100 = 0% |
15 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 12.129.199.178
0/ 100 = 0% |
16 211ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 12.129.209.68

Trace complete.
ViKata,
Looks like it is your ISP you are dropping packets before it goes offshore....
After months of not playing the game I decided to come back and play the game tonight. Too bad the lag is still there, especially in NA server the ping is 250+ so I had to start all over again in Asia server. Despite this it is still laggy and latency is above 110 which is unacceptable in my opinion. I'm playing from Malaysia and this always online DRM is a slap on players from oceanic and Asia region. I see no reason why blizz cant implement an offline mode since right now there's no point of online mode other than Auction house. Chat channels are dead and so is pub games, which I really don't care about. So please give us offline mode.
lag has been insane... bar is always on red latency 700-1000 im dead all the time
what a joke.. same thing was happening not even a month ago.

temp fix download free trail of wtfast
Excessive LAG, 600-700 latency regularly with 1000+ at times.
Get green for about 10 seconds or so, then lag again for most of my gaming session..
I have a video capture of when my latency was green, and rubber banding was brutal.
I only move about 3 paces and Boing, right back where I was.......
It does not make for a good gaming experience to be sure.
I had to stop playing due to the lag. The game was running ok until a week ago but now it's no longer a game, it's just an exercise in frustration with constant rubber banding followed closely by death
Yep i'm getting some serious lag here... Can't even play a character for two seconds without major lag hitting, just lost a hardcore character because of it :(
Please fix!!!
The NBN is just around the corner for me. With any luck my ISP issues will no longer be a problem :)
Been having terrible latency issues for weeks now. Was going to pre order RoS but spent the cash on something else. All other games/net is fine. D3 lag has been getting worse every day.
After comparing my lost packets and hop times with my friends, it is clear that my ISP has no arrangements for quality of service. I raised a ticket with them a few weeks back but there only useful advice has been to take my business elsewhere.

Here is an example of what I get from Dodo:

Tracing route to 12.192.209.68 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.1.1.1
2 372 ms 766 ms * 123-2-2-251.core.dodo.com.au [123.2.2.251]
3 583 ms 469 ms 460 ms 123-2-3-10.core.dodo.com.au [123.2.3.10]
4 253 ms 232 ms 356 ms bundle-ether11.win24.melbourne.telstra.net [165.228.21.137]
5 132 ms * * bundle-ether6.win-core1.melbourne.telstra.net [203.50.11.58]
6 138 ms 169 ms 132 ms bundle-ether12.ken-core4.sydney.telstra.net [203.50.11.12]
7 319 ms 314 ms 431 ms bundle-ether1.pad-gw2.sydney.telstra.net [203.50.6.29]
8 126 ms 150 ms 282 ms tengigabitethernet1-0.sydp-core02.sydney.reach.com [203.50.13.46]
9 * 366 ms 232 ms i-0-3-0-1.paix-core01.bx.telstraglobal.net [202.84.140.165]
10 677 ms * 603 ms i-0-0-0-5.paix02.bi.telstraglobal.net [202.84.251.18]
11 429 ms 203 ms 528 ms 206.24.240.149
12 1607 ms 1602 ms 1017 ms esr2-xe-8-0-0.pax.savvis.net [204.70.192.38]
13 774 ms * 643 ms er1-ten-9-4.sjq.savvis.net [206.28.98.181]
14 * 796 ms 616 ms er2-xe-7-0-0.SanJoseEquinix.savvis.net [204.70.198.142]
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
That's the thing with Aussie internet unfortunately we still hang onto copper network that telstra has a monopoly over. Working in the broadband infrastructure industry (within Telstra) it still frustrates me how many people have a misconception on who/what is accountable for bad broadband service. Access Seekers such as Dodo or TPG etc have very little power to repair the condition of your copper line they have to log and submit a fault to telstra who then will take up with testing to determine if it's worth sending a CT out. the truth is no residential user or access seeker have the tools to test the condition of the copper line, these secrets are held with telstra assurance tester centres and the field CTs. Having worked with these systems personally i can tell you if your on ADSL your in the club of pain when it comes to gaming.

Our internet is very geographically based on the condition of our copper network. Theres so many flaws in the current aged copper. There's a small percentage of players on fibre / HFC that have little lag problems, but most of the players on ADSL copper lines suffer the most.

Realistically even if a local server is established here The difference of the distance will cut off perhaps 190 - 250 ish ms, if you have 1000ms you will still suffer as your line feeding to your house is still in a bad condition. Copper suffers easily from foreign battery , resistance to ground etc especailly in aged lines with affected joints and pits. Copper attenuation also doesn't last a long distance compared to say fibre which can cover on a average at least ten times the distance of copper before it starts loosing the signal.

The new NBN plans orchestrated by Tony Abbots party has taken a turn for the worst, by trying to retain the copper network and only feed partial fibre. Or HFC which they are trying to heavily promote. Issues with HFC already pointed out by experts have a tendency to suffer congestion on peak times when everyone jumps on.

I sit at 175-200 ms when playing D3 on a HFC service as I can't stand the copper network. Speedtest.net rates my connection 92% better than the rest of australians. Those of us with good connections never really visit the forums to declare good working connections as we don't have a complaint on our end. But as a insight everyones connection varies based on what technology thats been fed to their house , copper network condition and distance from exchange.

Also if your local area or exchange is congested Telstra has no obligation to fix this immediately , they just have a no ETA marked at your ports until when they feel eventually they will get around to upgrading it.
@ Calum
Great background. I have 29 joins between home and the exchange. Each one adds noise.

When looking at the hop times and lost packets, I thought hey were independent of my local loop, so very long times (and lost packets) after my local connection were an indication of poor service downstream. Can anyone comment on that?

I'm in an area that will probably get an NBN Fixed Wireless service. What my ping times likely to be?
Nice post Calum !

I'm sure your right on the money with your analysis.

Australia, due to its relatively low population and great distances between towns and cities suffers from lack of world standard internet.

Government roll out changes do not help. As well as the mind boggling concept of putting world standard internet in rural areas with low populations instead of populated areas where there is greater likelihood of greater revenue returns.

Here's hoping for all to get fiber optic cable instead of being stuck to ADSL2 which really isn't up to standard.

Peace all
01/24/2014 09:31 PMPosted by Calum
That's the thing with Aussie internet unfortunately we still hang onto copper network that telstra has a monopoly over. Working in the broadband infrastructure industry (within Telstra) it still frustrates me how many people have a misconception on who/what is accountable for bad broadband service. Access Seekers such as Dodo or TPG etc have very little power to repair the condition of your copper line they have to log and submit a fault to telstra who then will take up with testing to determine if it's worth sending a CT out


This is true but the other part of the problem that your ISP can control is contention ratios. Your ISP pays for backhaul into the core network and international bandwith.
Moderate-high contention ratios will show as worse ping times in peak periods and extreme contention can lead to significant packet loss as well. Even with the NBN contention will still be an issue.
I decided to give the game a try again after hardly touching it since it was first released, due to the upcoming expansion. Unfortunately I exited less than 2 minutes into the game, this time not due to any specific game mechanics, but rather the latency.

For a game which arguable is played as a single player game by many, if you are going to force online make sure you do it properly as a ping of 500-1000ms is ridiculous and unplayable. I have no major issues with latency in other games with US based servers, but the Diablo 3 servers still seem to have issues, except now it's far worse.

I think I'll be holding off purchasing the upcoming expansion as this recent experience has left a sour taste in the mouth. Pity, I was really looking forward to getting back into Diablo.
Rosoh, usual ping should be around 200-300 ish when connecting to Americas server. Your ping means most likely you are losing packets. Try the tracert and pathping tests.
There are certain times of the day that I especially find D3 to be completely unplayable due to the lag and response times (>3000ms!!)

I find this situation extremely frustrating that a product that I purchased cannot be played under my terms - I really should have researched this better before going out in blind faith and buying this!

However, I would be more patient/understanding if there wasn't this incredibly frustrating *silence* on behalf of Blizzard in response to this acknowledged problem. At the very least, it would be a tad more bearable if there could be a simple "Yes, we know what the problem is - we are/aren't going to do anything about it."

No promises, no time-frames - just basic customer feedback. After all, Blizzard are the ones that imposed this online-only model on us (and I can see the reasons why), so shouldn't the obligation be for them to provide a service that is *kind of* equivalent to an off-line experience?

*Sigh* just venting - I realise that all of this is just pissing in the wind!! I actually enjoy the game, just not the restricted hours in which it's playable@!

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