[2.1 Mechanics] Spirit Generators: Quick Ref.

Monk
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Maximizing Single-Target DPS:
So apparently I have been doing my single target damage to RG sub-optimally this entire time! I had assumed FoF's DoT was a finite duration without an actual cap, but it actually has a finite stack limit and can essentially be snapshot. This is a summary post with some napkin math to see how much snapshotting FoF's DoT would add to single target damage for RGs that spawn no adds and leaves you without STI for the majority of the fight. For those that don't want to read the last 2 pages of posts, essentially:
  • FoF's DoT proc coefficient is snapshot at "fresh" application
  • FoF's DoT duration refreshes upon additional DoT applications
  • FoF's DoT stacks to a maximum of ( 9 )*(Sheet-APS) - and this max stack is snapshot at application until the DoT drops.
  • So you will want to make sure when you apply your -original- FoF DoT to the RG that you have a your highest Sheet-APS. Oddly enough there can be a fractional value of stacks, but the dps contribution is significant enough that maintaining a max-stack FoF DoT on a RG is definitely worth doing.

    Max DPS rotation - Single Target
    Step1: RG spawns.
    Step2: Activate Radiance + STI
    Step3: FoT until FD procs
    Step4: FoF until you reach max DoT Stacks *
    Step5: Primarily FoT; FoFing once every 2.5 seconds to refresh DoT duration.
    Step6: RG drops below 75% health and doesn't proc STI anymore
    Step7: Primarily FoT; FoFing once every 2.5 seconds to refresh DoT duration.
    Step8: RG dies!

    * - If you are using Bane of the Stricken, you can drink a potion after a FoF while FD buff is up if you haven't snapshot yet.

    Napkin Math For my Duogen Monk
    (Davlok @ http://i.imgur.com/PIbO3VH.png)
    +49% Lightning
    +0% Holy
    +21% ias from gear
    +FoT = +WotHF
    +Templar
    +Radiance

    Snapshot Sheet APS (FD+STI) = 4.871
    Max FoF stacks = 4.871 * 9 = 43.84
    Holy Damage = 877% wd/sec
    FoT APS (no STI) = 4.42
    FD Uptime (estimated) = ~70%
    Average FoT APS = ~7.0
    Average FoT hit = 267%
    FoT Weapon Damage per second = 267 * 7 * 1.49 = 2768%
    Lightning damage = 2768% wd/sec

    So snapshotting and maintaining a max FoF DoT would increase my single target damage output during the post-STI RG phase by ~32%. Not bad! I played around with other common configurations (Peshkov instead of EotS, enchantress, etc), and depending on how much IAS & +lightning you have, the snapshot DoT contribution would range between 20-40%, so definitely worth doing over just FoT like I had been before.

    Of course, if you're fishing for an RG with adds like you're supposed to, then the DoT snapshot "value added" will be less, since STI will have much higher uptime, and the snapshot DoT will not contribute as much. So when adds spawn get SC spread and then use FoF until it's back down to single target, but keep the snapshot FoF DoT rolling as every little bit helps!

    tl;dr: Against single target just using FoT:SC isn't the highest DPS for Duo-gen.

    Some additional FoF Mechanics here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16527322731?page=15#290
    10/14/2015 10:12 AMPosted by Davlok
    Step4: FoF until you reach max DoT Stacks (drink a potion while FD buff is up if you haven't snapshot Stricken)


    Like i said, every time u drink potion or change region u lose FD buff
    Ad is probably that stricken remains with out FD buff to APS
    Yes that stricken thing is a hell of a terrible codding from blizz devs, cant fix it to stack properly even with potion work around for monks, but monks how ever had the issues with 15% ninja speed buff from passive and 25% from R2 set bonus, and the fact that generators them self have 2 or 3 speed gear shifts each steps

    Also ppl use potion not to get more stacks then possible, but to not remain behind the speed stacking of stacks originally intended if that gem wasn't bugged and acted with procs just like Obsidian Ring or Shard of Hate mechanics
    "Max FoF stacks = 4.871 * 9 = 43.84 "

    What exactky does that mean in terms of FOF attacks. How many FOF activations do i need to apply 44 stacks?
    its always a question of a few second only
    actually...literally less then 2 sec always
    10/14/2015 10:12 AMPosted by Davlok
    Maximizing Single-Target DPS:
    So apparently I have been doing my single target damage to RG sub-optimally this entire time! I had assumed FoF's DoT was a finite duration without an actual cap, but it actually has a finite stack limit and can essentially be snapshot. This is a summary post with some napkin math to see how much snapshotting FoF's DoT would add to single target damage for RGs that spawn no adds and leaves you without STI for the majority of the fight. For those that don't want to read the last 2 pages of posts, essentially:
  • FoF's DoT proc coefficient is snapshot at "fresh" application
  • FoF's DoT duration refreshes upon additional DoT applications
  • FoF's DoT stacks to a maximum of ( 9 )*(Sheet-APS) - and this max stack is snapshot at application until the DoT drops.
  • So you will want to make sure when you apply your -original- FoF DoT to the RG that you have a your highest Sheet-APS. Oddly enough there can be a fractional value of stacks, but the dps contribution is significant enough that maintaining a max-stack FoF DoT on a RG is definitely worth doing.

    Max DPS rotation - Single Target
    Step1: RG spawns.
    Step2: Activate Radiance + STI
    Step3: FoT until FD procs
    Step4: FoF until you reach max DoT Stacks (drink a potion after FoF while FD buff is up if you haven't snapshot Stricken)
    Step5: Primarily FoT; FoFing once every 2.5 seconds to refresh DoT duration.
    Step6: RG drops below 75% health and doesn't proc STI anymore
    Step7: Primarily FoT; FoFing once every 2.5 seconds to refresh DoT duration.
    Step8: RG dies!

    Napkin Math For my Duogen Monk
    (Davlok @ http://i.imgur.com/PIbO3VH.png)
    +49% Lightning
    +0% Holy
    +21% ias from gear
    +FoT = +WotHF
    +Templar
    +Radiance

    Snapshot Sheet APS (FD+STI) = 4.871
    Max FoF stacks = 4.871 * 9 = 43.84
    Holy Damage = 877% wd/sec
    FoT APS (no STI) = 4.42
    FD Uptime (estimated) = ~70%
    Average FoT APS = ~7.0
    Average FoT hit = 267%
    FoT Weapon Damage per second = 267 * 7 * 1.49 = 2768%
    Lightning damage = 2768% wd/sec

    So snapshotting and maintaining a max FoF DoT would increase my single target damage output during the post-STI RG phase by ~32%. Not bad! I played around with other common configurations (Peshkov instead of EotS, enchantress, etc), and depending on how much IAS & +lightning you have, the snapshot DoT contribution would range between 20-40%, so definitely worth doing over just FoT like I had been before.

    Of course, if you're fishing for an RG with adds like you're supposed to, then the DoT snapshot "value added" will be less, since STI will have much higher uptime, and the snapshot DoT will not contribute as much. So when adds spawn get SC spread and then use FoF until it's back down to single target, but keep the snapshot FoF DoT rolling as every little bit helps!

    tl;dr: Against single target just using FoT:SC isn't the highest DPS for Duo-gen.


    tag! i knew sc alone felt slow and it felt better when i weaved fof in. had no clue why because i'm not a human davlokator
    Does the above snapshotting works for Non-Season?
    10/15/2015 05:08 AMPosted by electrofux
    "Max FoF stacks = 4.871 * 9 = 43.84 "

    What exactky does that mean in terms of FOF attacks. How many FOF activations do i need to apply 44 stacks?

    Assuming you hit with all 7 punches of your FoF 2nd strike, 44 stacks would take 5 3-strike combos from FoF, so around 2 seconds like I think Enoone was trying to convey.

    10/15/2015 11:58 AMPosted by SanFeng
    Does the above snapshotting works for Non-Season?

    Yep. FoF mechanics aren't any different between Seasons/non-seasons, we just don't have access to Bane of the Stricken. I guess I might have confused a few folks with drinking the pot as part of step 4, potion drinking has no effect on FoF stacks. You smapshot on "fresh" DoT application. Just forget the potion part for nonseasons. Whatever max stacks your current DoT is will continue as is until it drops. I just put the (potion) in there since more monks seem to be playing S4 than NS like me. I can neither confirm or deny Bane of the Stricken mechanics ^_^;
    LOL. Still confused.

    So in NS, there is no snapshotting. What you described is just a procedure to produce most dmg to RG. Is that correct? In NS, do we need to drink the pot to snapshot FOF stacks?
    10/15/2015 12:42 PMPosted by SanFeng
    LOL. Still confused.

    So in NS, there is no snapshotting. What you described is just a procedure to produce most dmg to RG. Is that correct? In NS, do we need to drink the pot to snapshot FOF stacks?


    FOF snapshots your APS on application of first stack for all following stacks to come
    So if u by chance started to put the dot on target without your 15% buff from dashing strike, or with out FD proc, u will do less damage with the DOT from FOF stacks

    OFC this FOF dot isnt big deal in AOE damage since static charge rulles there
    But if u got a single target boss, an dont wanna /leave that rift
    OR simply want to max your DPS always
    Then is better if u start your FOF dot fresh application when have the highest sheet APS
    Since u also have that 30% attack speed buff at start until target is above 75% life, u better not lose that FOF Dot from running with late refreshing

    Potion on the other hand removes your FD buff, so if u drink potion u lose the Flying dragon buff then need to wait when it procs again
    SO if need to use potion to snapshot you stricken(that is a hell of a mess on monks with generators atm and probably will lose the FD buff however for that stupid gem) u better do this snapshot after u started your stacks of the FOF dot on on your target

    If is not clear...try asking what exactly on what step u got lost..or wait for someone else to explain it again in a different version
    Enoone. Thanks and well explained. Got it now. In GR69 non-season, I get to RG so many times with about 4 or 5 minutes remaining and failed everytime. This will definitely help.

    I don't play season, so the stricken and potion snapshot got me all confused as to what can snapshot. So it sounds like FoF can snapshot on its own without the need to take a potion. I just need to refresh the FoF stacks often.
    09/30/2015 03:58 AMPosted by Davlok
    There is a possibility of a FoF-DoT-equivalent somewhere. Let me know if anyone has discovered any group dynamics worth mentioning. I am noob non-season solo player mostly. ^_^


    wizards arcane torrent static discharge ticks 9/s (speed coef of 3 + 2 extra bolts per tick) all hits with proc coef of 0.2. with a small aoe and scales with aps so 3 aps breakpoint means 30 ticks/s. or 6 expect procs/s per target

    ranselor folly twister pull packs up a high density of mobs into a very tight cluster (depending on monster hit box) easily achieves 20-30 mobs in a small 10 foot area, makes applying fof dot and sc bdebuff a breeze on that ammount of mobs.
    That FoF equivalent is not about the amount of procs. This was written before it was found out that FoF DoT doesnt have a 0 procc-coefficient, so it was meant if there are other things with 0 procc-coefficient that proc SC.
    10/26/2015 08:41 AMPosted by Goldarm
    That FoF equivalent is not about the amount of procs. This was written before it was found out that FoF DoT doesnt have a 0 procc-coefficient, so it was meant if there are other things with 0 procc-coefficient that proc SC.


    why would that be meaningful in any way? at least compared to what is generating the most ammount of procs thus damage.
    10/26/2015 10:03 AMPosted by ximae
    10/26/2015 08:41 AMPosted by Goldarm
    That FoF equivalent is not about the amount of procs. This was written before it was found out that FoF DoT doesnt have a 0 procc-coefficient, so it was meant if there are other things with 0 procc-coefficient that proc SC.


    why would that be meaningful in any way? at least compared to what is generating the most ammount of procs thus damage.


    The thing is at that time the interaction was considered a bug and the search for something equivalent meant searching for other things that might be interacting with SC even though they shouldnt.

    The point is simply that your answer doesnt relate to what you quoted from Davlok, thats all I wantednto say.
    09/30/2015 03:58 AMPosted by Davlok
    Preliminary Results: Items - Does proc off attacks from pets summoned from items Skycutter, Maximus, etc.

    very interesting result.
    so Maximus chain can proc SC as well or only the hit directly from the demon?

    and I can use cows from Bovine Bardiche and skeletons from Golden Gorget of Leoric to proc more SC?

    that can be fun...
    10/26/2015 08:41 AMPosted by Goldarm
    That FoF equivalent is not about the amount of procs. This was written before it was found out that FoF DoT doesnt have a 0 procc-coefficient, so it was meant if there are other things with 0 procc-coefficient that proc SC.

    Yah, for those that missed the memo like I did, summed it up here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11882328396?page=15#281

    10/26/2015 08:12 AMPosted by ximae
    wizards arcane torrent static discharge ticks 9/s (speed coef of 3 + 2 extra bolts per tick) all hits with proc coef of 0.2. with a small aoe and scales with aps so 3 aps breakpoint means 30 ticks/s. or 6 expect procs/s per target

    ranselor folly twister pull packs up a high density of mobs into a very tight cluster (depending on monster hit box) easily achieves 20-30 mobs in a small 10 foot area, makes applying fof dot and sc bdebuff a breeze on that ammount of mobs.

    Cool. Hope there will be more classes viable in groups!

    10/26/2015 02:22 PMPosted by Luffy
    09/30/2015 03:58 AMPosted by Davlok
    Preliminary Results: Items - Does proc off attacks from pets summoned from items Skycutter, Maximus, etc.

    very interesting result.
    so Maximus chain can proc SC as well or one the hit directly from the demon?

    and I can use cows from Bovine Bardiche and skeletons from Golden Gorget of Leoric to proc more SC?

    that can be fun...

    Unfortunately, no. Only the melee-attacks of summons seem to be able to proc SC. If the Maximus demon chain did proc SC, it would probaly be used by a lot more support in 4p, as the chain ticks 5x/s as well.

    http://i.imgur.com/jw7ueLy.png
    Davlok,
    According to your post regarding single target damage onto RG, any idea how much percentage of Damage is dealt by FoF and FoT to the RG (assume single target) in non-season of course.

    Been thinking on choice on between Witching Hour and Thundergod Vigor for stun build (no EotS 30% lightning) and dex/lightning damage on amulet.
    wonder is it possible to snapshoot the FoF dmg with a power pylon for the entire RG fight if i dont drop it?
    No it wont, phantom. Its already stated only APS is snapshotted for the maximum stacks of FoF. Thus if you have RG with power pylon beside, you want to leave it until you got your full and highest stack of FoF, while still have STI to maximum damage. (if with stricken consideration, not sure since I'm not good with its mechanism)

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